posted on May 16, 2001 04:18:53 PM new
Posted this over in "Buyer Beware". In hindsight, it may be more appropriate here.
Here is a scam that was pulled on me last month and I thought I would (appropriately?)share it here. I am eBay "newpcman". At the point of the scam, my feedback rating was well over 350 with no negative comments.
This is a fairly long story that will probably be more interesting to serious auction sellers than bidders, so I will attempt to make a long story interesting by posting it more as a commentary. Here is how the scam went:
Item: NEW AMD Retail Boxed 1.33 GHZ CPU
Opening bid: $1
3 day auction, no reserve
Street price on this item is about $240
Within a few hours of listing I get one bid for $1. Shortly thereafter, another bid for $255, and another a little later for $285. So here I am, feeling pretty good about myself (the CPU cost me about $225 at the time), looking to make a pretty hefty profit. No more bids until about 2 hours prior to auction end. At that time the $285 bidder retracts his bid with an explanation of: "I never buy OEM, sorry." Like an idiot, I decide to check his feedback rating FOR THE FIRST TIME (my first mistake), it is -1. I think, OK, I really didn't want to sell to this fool anyway. -1 rating, and at least 5 times in the auction title and description I ensure the buyer KNOWS it is a retail box (MUCH different than buying an OEM CPU for those who don't buy in the computer world). So, I let it go without a word. 30 seconds prior to auction end is the final blow. The $255 bidder retracts his bid saying: "Wrong CPU for my system, sorry".
So here's a test for those who have been paying attention: If there are no more bids before this auction ends (in 30 seconds), what's the winning bid? You got it, $1!
Now, I know ebay's rules, and this SEEMS to fit within it's guidelines, so I'm screwed, right? For those savvy sellers reading this, I can HEAR the heads shaking. $1 start with NO RESERVE? You were ASKING for it to happen! Kind of a "reverse snipe"!
To continue, the winning bidder emails me within 20 minutes of the auction for payment instructions. Cordial and exact, not giddy or defensive, I would call him a real pro, other than the fact that by his wording and his OBVIOUS spelling and grammer mistakes, he is at least illiterate, probably just young. I know I have up to 72 hours to respond, but I figure if this IS a scammer, he's not going to give me time to react. I reply stating (as cordially as possible, remember, I have NO negative comments, and I'd rather not give him any reasons to leave one) that I know he feels that he got a real deal, but until I can sort out exactly WHAT happened, I will offer to ship him the CPU at below my cost AND I will pay for the shipping/tracking/insurance to enforce the "lesson learned". Some of you might think this unfair, after all, he won the bid, right? Well, after doing some reading through the MOUNDS of help information on eBay, I found an interesting paragraph on "What eBay Investigates" and it goes on to explain "Bidding Offenses", specifically "Bid manipulation by using the retraction option". My reply was more to elicit a response from the winning bidder than it was to reach a compromise. A legitimate bidder would (hopefully) complain a bit, maybe more, and refer to eBay's rules, etc. I had already decided that if I "felt" that the winning bidder was legitimate, I would bite the bullet, and sell it to him for $1. But, I am usually a tough nut to crack, so it was going to have to be some sell!
Luckily, I didn't have to worry about it long because the bidder replies within minutes, calling me EVERYTHING but a nice person, 4 letter explicatives, misspellings, rantings, etc. "Clueless" in my mind, but smart enough to have scammed ME! To slap me good, the nasty email is almost immediately followed by my FIRST NEGATIVE comment on eBay. Something to the effect of: "Seller didn't like final bid amount, so refused to sell "
At this point, I'm FUMING! Really at myself, more than the bidder. But, I decide to begin my own little investigation. I start using eBay's search facilities to see what the bidder(s) on my $1 auction have bid on before. My "research" turns up some interesting stuff! I find that the same three user id's (at this point, I'm figuring it's ALL one person, multiple accounts) have pulled the exact SAME scam twice in the past three months. The first seller that got caught in it left the winning bidder GLOWING feedback about his "speed of payment and quality of comunications"! BTW, the seller now shows as "Not a registered user". DUH!?! Maybe I have a clue as to WHY?
Not only this, but in addition, I start to cross reference the three user id's with every other bidder that has ever bid on an item with any of them (one thing's for sure, you gotta love eBay's search facilities!). I uncover 4 other user ID's that have either attempted the scam and been thwarted by a savvy seller (smarter than me I guess!), or just didn't time it right and were thwarted by other bidders who were that much more interested in the items that they were attempting to "steal". I can be fairly conclusive since it happened OVER 30 TIMES!
GETTING TO THE END OF THE STORY: I am a part of the eBay Powerseller's program. One of the bennies is that I can get pretty immediate response from their special customer services group. I email the group and offer my investigation to say that I believe the bidder(s) have completely undermined what eBay is trying to promote as "community", and should be flogged, tarred and feathered before having their account suspended (of course, the FT&F was mine for emphasis). An eBay investigation ensues. They can see certain things that I cannot see publicly which would help this investigation, such as the actual items that each eBay user id retracted a bid from. I can only search for actual bids and see the total number of retractions.
THE END OF THE STORY: eBay suspends all accounts I have found to be "fraudulent" except one, stating that there "isn't enough clear evidence that the user is involved". After a little MORE investigation on my part, I pass along "enough clear evidence" and that account is suspended also!
Good Guys: 7 of 7
Bad Guys: 0 of 7
Of course, I FIGHT the urge to email the original winning bidder a NYA NYA, BYE BYE (insert explicative here, probably starting with an "A"! But nahhhhh, why should I stoop to his level? And on a more practical side, eBay is not going to check the address of his new PO Box next month when he opens a new eBay account simply to exact his revenge on his new "nemesis".
After a few more emails about the fact that my reputation (feedback) has been marred by a "fraudulent" user id, and I get the negative feedback removed (without further comment from eBay since I guess this is not usually done).
THE MORAL OF THE STORY: Be prepared!
For those who are wondering, I currently still offer high end CPUs at $1 opening on 3-day auctions with no reserve, but I am now more watchful over bidding patterns, feedback ratings, and length of time on eBay. If anyone is interested, sometime I will post another commentary with things I have learned to watch for to keep from being "scammed".
Do I still get scammed? I hesitate to say "not yet"! I figure as long as we live in a free society, some of the crooks will always be able to outsmart even the smartest merchants.
posted on May 17, 2001 10:56:43 AM new
You definitely are the knight in shining armor slaying the dragon. Kudos to you. Your story proves that the system does work, at least once in a while. (with a lot of your hard work, time and energy)
posted on May 18, 2001 07:22:44 AM new
I say every seller is entitled to his own way of doing things, but my personal feeling is to never list something at less than you're willing to let it go. I also learned the hard way. Also, what would you do if someone bid $1 and then ebay had one of its famous failures? I am also willing to test different marketing methods, like taking a loss to attract customers, etc. But there is no point to it if I have to take the heat from bid shielding and ebay failures.
posted on May 18, 2001 09:02:57 AM new
To llama_lady: Thanks for the compliment. I am one who appreciates being appreciated (as I guess most are).
To yisgood: I also appreciate your comments. I agree, every seller has a right...Heck, it's their goods that they are selling! But, that being said, let me say what I have found:
I am on eBay to make a profit, as I'm sure anyone who plans on staying there or plans on staying in business in general is. Most of my items are high-end CPUs ranging in cost from $150 to $250 and sell from $140 to $350. I have found that since eBay charges both up front for the opening bid amount AND on the back end for the final value fee, my "normal cost" would be:
"$1" auction: $4.05 to $9.05.
"Least willing cost" auction: $6.95 to $11.95.
In my case anyway, I save about $2.90 per auction the "$1" way. At about 80 auctions per month, I save around $230/month. As I mentioned earlier, I do this just to make lunch money. I guess it is also a kind of internet marketing research project. I have a "regular" day job as DP manager of a $250M/YR manufacturing co.
I know that there are those skeptics that would say, "Yea. But you have NO IDEA what your item will sell for!". This is partially true. Yes, the bid CAN go for ANY amount. I have found that in my sector of eBay anyway, MOST buyers are willing to pay street price for what I am selling, and have the resources available on the net to figure out what "street price" is. To make a long story short, I have sold over 400 CPUs, and have ranged in profit from -$25 to +125! Of course, MOST hover around +$20 to +$35. Like I said, I'm here to make lunch money. This kind of profit covers it nicely, and overall, I believe puts the most money in my pocket.
By timing my auctions properly, I can frequently benefit from "auction frenzy" and VERY OFTEN make $50-$100 on a high-end item by starting the bidding at $1. I also eliminate a LOT of competitors who are not willing to list so low, and my bidders OFTEN will ignore their items since they have invested time into bidding on and watching my items, which ALSO adds to the "bidding wars". Then, it's just an added bennie if the item makes the "hot list". I guess it doesn't hurt that I put the time and effort into keeping each "customer" happy, and therefore have no negative comments. I understand how fickle people can be, and this could change tomorrow.
In answer to eBay's infamous failures, the longest failure I have seen since I have been selling has been several hours (and if I remember right, they reimbursed my listing fees!). Since all auctions are minimum 3 days, the only time I really lose is if the failure happens and runs over the end of my auction where I lose the snipers and last minute bidders (which CAN mean a fairly hefty loss - usually $10-$25 worth). I sell items that at average will generate 10-20 bids within the first day and 1/2. With that kind of bidding, I'm not too worried.
Obviously, a lot more thought went into this than what I can write here. Rather than eat up any more space, I'll end here. Thanks for the comments.
posted on May 22, 2001 04:13:55 PM new
I have not been on E-Bay a long time and have been on both ends of the deal.
I bid on a "DEAL" of a 2-way radio.
When the item arrived i did not get what was pictured or described in the listing, BUT I took my licks for thinking I was getting a great deal.
I remember what I was told long, long ago, If it seems too good to be true.... It it probably is.
