posted on October 30, 2002 01:34:42 PM new
Sounds pretty clear to me, and I do not see any deception on your part...but obviously this buyer was confused. I believe unjustly so...but never the less, you might want to alter your auction wording slightly to avoid this in the future. Just state "Shipping & Handling $4.75". Then in your emails to the buyer, when you give them the total, again state "Total = Winning Bid + 4.75 S & H".
As for this person...what kind of figure are we talking here? How did they pay?
"Who's tending the bar? Sniping works up a thirst"
posted on October 30, 2002 01:37:12 PM new
sleepyboy,
I don't think there is anything wrong with your statement of flat $4.75 s/h fee. (however you may wish to remove "flat" after this instance... even though I don't think it is being used incorrectly, it isn't really necessary.) I think, however, that you may have inflamed the situation by telling the bidder you were making all your profit on the s/h charges. That IS frowned upon... and if taken to the extreme can be considered fee avoidence. Your s/h costs should be covering postage, time spent packing, packing materials, maybe fees from payment options... but your item should be able to make a profit on its own without the handling (in my opinion).
posted on October 30, 2002 01:50:10 PM new
Tell them that they have violated Ebays rules by engaging in Feedback Extortion. If a negative feedback is left, you will report them to ebay for corrective action. Then ignore them. Expect the NEG, report them, neg them, and move on.
posted on October 30, 2002 02:15:28 PM new
I agree totally with dejapooh.
Explain to your bidder what she is doing is feedback extortion.
Even if your bidder reports you to Ebay for making a profit by having a handling fee, I do not think ebay will do anything about it. It is not like you were charging $20.00 for shipping.
The bidder is in the wrong here as you clearly stated $4.75 for shipping and handling in the your auction. If the bidder was confused she should have asked questions before placing her bid.
Her statement...
I do not bid on ebay items on assuption or guesses...I go by what is posted,I go by the facts. And YES, I absolutely insist that you refund me the difference. You are confusing people by opporating under the assumption that we know what you mean by "flat" in the shipping rate
...doesnt make sense. If she was confussed she should have asked questions instead of guessing what you meant. This ebay user has been around since 1999 I am sure she knew what you meant.
posted on October 30, 2002 02:34:23 PM new
Stand your ground, I wouldn't refund her because your auction states it very very clearly. I know a neg would hurt, but people will still buy from you.
posted on October 30, 2002 03:07:08 PM new
Copy and past this into your reply email. It is from Safe Harbor, and he/she has clearly violated the "Feedback Extortion" policy...
Feedback Offenses See other offenses
If you've experienced any of these issues, please report offenses to the Investigations link below. Disciplinary action may result in the indefinite suspension of a user's account, temporary suspension, or a formal warning. eBay will consider the circumstances of an alleged offense and the user's trading records before taking action.
Shill feedback, defensive - Using secondary eBay User IDs or other eBay members to artificially raise the level of your own feedback.
Shill feedback, offensive - Using eBay User IDs or other eBay members to leave several negative comments for another user
(commonly called feedback bombing).
Feedback extortion - Demanding any action of a fellow user that he or she is not required to do, at the threat of leaving negative feedback. ("Even though it didn't reach reserve, sell it to me for my bid or..."; "Pay me $100.00 or I will..."; "Sell me all of the Dutch items or I will get all of my friends to..."
Feedback solicitation - Offering to sell feedback, trade feedback undeservedly, or buy feedback.
I found your auction payment description very clear, and even if they don't know what "flat" fee means, it also says "Buyer pays fixed shipping charge" above your description. Personally, I would not refund, and if they give you a negative, report them.
posted on October 30, 2002 03:12:04 PM new
Leave your TOS as it is. You state "buyers pay a flat S/H $4.75". When they bid and won the auction they agreed to your conditions.
Take the hit & leave a simple statement when you leave the neg for them. "Attempted to extort refund on stated flat S/H"
posted on October 30, 2002 03:12:38 PM new
Leave your TOS as it is. You state "buyers pay a flat S/H $4.75". When they bid and won the auction they agreed to your conditions.
Take the hit & leave a simple statement when you leave the neg for them. "Attempted to extort refund on stated flat S/H"
posted on October 30, 2002 03:56:06 PM new
You will probably not be able to get neg feedback removed, but don't worry that much about it. As long as your response to it is honest and unemotional, anybody looking will realize what really happened.
If you have not left her feedback already, don't leave any until after she leaves hers. If she does give you feedback, she deserves negative feedback for the threatening, bully type attitude she has.
You will meet many buyers like this if you continue selling on ebay, just take them with a grain of salt and do what your common sense tells, do not listen to threats.
posted on October 31, 2002 01:07:12 AM new
I am sorry that for my reputation I will refune her money. See what her response below. I believe she did that to many sellers. Should I explose her accunt name to every seller here? Just don't want anyone get hurt by her anymore.
Hi, Let me know your paypal account #
I will 100% refund you the shipping differnce and take the lose.
Is it $2.90? Let me know.
Yes, $2.91 to be exact
Cool off. Don't get pissed. Nothing big deal. Just several dollars.
You don't need to tell me to "cool off"...or to not get "pissed". I'm as
calm, cool, and collected as can be. If I was "pissed" I woud have left
negative feedback by now. By the way, this is not about the money. It is a
small amount of money. But whether it is .10 or $10, what you did was not
fair...and I'm sure you wouldn't like if someone did that to you. Also, you
not the only one who did this...I added up the amount that I got overcharged
on shipping in this last month, and it came to $18.76...see, it adds
up...that could have bought me a nice dinner!
posted on October 31, 2002 04:41:54 AM new
Sleepyboy
By giving in to this woman you have harmed your reputation and the Ebay community as a whole. The reason she continues to do this is because she gets away with it. This is extrotive behavior and I bet she dosn't just confine it to Ebay. It is sad that there are buyers like this but if you continue to sell on Ebay this will not be the last one, and probably won't be the worst.
What you did was fine, accepatble Ebay practice. In my opinion you made two mistakes.
1) You told her you make profit from shipping. Even it you do, don't tell people. They won't understand. It's Psychological but believe me it will piss off any buyer if you tell them you "make your profit form shipping. Besides, if two dollars is all you are making that is not profit. That will cover your cost of the shipping material and the trip to the post office. Don't tell me you "found" your shipping material so it didn't cost anything. If you are dumpster diving for boxes it still takes time and your time is worth something. Call it Handleing, thats what it is and it is your right to get reasonable amout fot your time and materials.
2) My second gentle critism is that you got a bit emotional with her which only feeds the fire with this type individual. Stay calm, don't name call, leave emotion out and you keep control. You let them know you are rattled and the love it. It's what they want, don't give it to them.
There are thousand, maybe millions of customers out there that us little folks deal with on a daily basis and I doubt that Piere has a clue what we have to put up with. 30 out of a million, ya right and it's not just sellers, the trail goes both ways. Anyway, I digress.
This person should not get a refund and she should get a negative for her behavior. As many have said here your reputation is earned and invalid negatives have no effect on it. In fact a calm factual response to an undeserved negative is, as JACK would say, a RED BADGE OF COURAGE that only serves to strengthen your reputation.
Sleepyboy, let this type of customer crawl back under their rock, block them from bidding and don't give up or give in. Welcome to the community and have fun on ebay.
posted on October 31, 2002 04:58:11 AM new
I see you've already left positive feedback for your buyer.
Now you can't warn people that the buyer doesn't abid by the posted auction terms and trys to blackmail sellers for refunds on listed shipping.
If you look at the feedback left by your buyer you will see that the last feedback left is a complaint about a S&H charge.
Perhaps in the future, you should wait until the buyer has the merchandise before leaving feedback. Then you can comment on the entire transaction and not just how fast payment was received.
In your listings you might want to state by what method your shipping: first class, priority, media mail, etc.
Many times people list $3.95 shipping and buyers wrongly assume that the item will be shipped via priority.
It seems that this type of misunderstanding can lead to bad feelings on the buyer's part even though the costs are clearly stated in the auction. They assume things that aren't stated and then blame you.
posted on October 31, 2002 05:24:45 AM newI added up the amount that I got overcharged on shipping in this last month, and it came to $18.76...see, it adds up ..that could have bought me a nice dinner!
overcharged?
that warped kind of thinking peeves me to no end!
Paying a stated amount for shipping and then saying you've been ripped off?
The terms of you auction were quite clear, sleepyboy.
lemme think like your buyer for just a second here....
If I added up all of the money I've paid in tips, I could be driving a convertible Jaguar and vacationing in the South of France
mebbe I'll go stalk & harass a few of those nice waiters & waitresses to try & get some cash back........
sheesh!
[ edited by zoomin on Oct 31, 2002 05:26 AM ]
posted on October 31, 2002 07:46:55 AM new
Send all recalcitrant bidders the following link. It seems to get through their thick heads.
AND
Use the ‘TOOLS’ which are available to you, as outlined in this link.
posted on October 31, 2002 07:48:04 AM new
>>"If you look at the feedback left by your buyer you will see that the last feedback left is a complaint about a S&H charge."<<
It is actually even worse than that. The seller she left the negative for had the shipping and handling clearly stated in his auction TOS too.
She could not even claim "confusion" ofer the use of the word "flat" on that auction.
I blocked her on my auctions and anyone reading about her should too! I have enough problems in life with out getting a bidder like this especially once I have been warned.
If sellers insist on leaving feedback as soon as the money arrives they are just asking for bidders like her. She is making a career out of getting free shipping.
The feedback system does not work because sellers are leaving feedback before the transaction is completed.
I put in my TOS that the transaction is not complete until the bidder leaves positive feedback that they are happy with their purchase.
I am getting more feedback now, and believe it or not if there is a problem the bidder actually emails me instead of pushing the complaint button.
Even the weirdos understand that if I can make a big red mark on their nice feedback page, they might want to at least try to work with me.
posted on October 31, 2002 08:14:30 AM new
Perhaps report her to Britney Spears .com or what ever her sight is called.
I'm sure your bidder didn't get aproval to put spears' image in a 'cheap' spread because the 'sexy' top your buyer is currently selling on ebay "reminds" her of the "Dolce & Gabbana dress that Britney Spears wore to the 2001 MTV Music Video awards"
If not, then that may also get her cicked off.
I believe that your being played as a sucker!!
Take No Prisoners sleepyboy.
Chop her off at the knees and leave her there.
posted on October 31, 2002 11:18:21 AM new
We should all write to the seller of the "Dolce & Gabbana dress that Britney Spears wore to the 2001 MTV Music Video awards" and tell her we are confused with her shipping and handling price. Is it a flate charge or is a fixed charge? Are you making any money off of the shipping because? If you are it is against ebay's policy (which is not). Let's give this seller a taste of her own medicine and see how she likes it.
posted on October 31, 2002 11:33:56 AM new
Well I've been following this.. I just asked her if the shipping and handling stated was Priority.
And I am in WA too, and asked her if WA taxes applied also.
I said I was thinking of it for one of my daughters........ and maybe I am.........
(ha)
posted on October 31, 2002 02:02:21 PM new
My advice is to do the following:
Just state the shipping cost as "X" in all future options, if someone asks what the shipping costs, inform them that shipping cost is as stated in the auction, period.
Inform this person that feedback is a two way street -- you could leave her negative feedback too.
Provide her with the rules on feedback extortion and tell her you consider the matter closed.
That's how I would handle it, I get threatened with Negative feedback all the time...often from customers who didn't pay "Send me this item now or I'll leave negative feedback" well, what I've stated above is how I deal with these people.
None of them have left me negative feedback yet. *Knocks on Wood*.
Another thing -- I don't leave feedback for a customer unless they do it first.
posted on October 31, 2002 03:29:43 PM new
I'm not sure but I think I have had to deal with this person or her twin! But she hasn't been back because I blocked her and wrote her a very polite reply that asked her to please avoid my auctions...
posted on October 31, 2002 08:28:16 PM new
I think I should be breave enough to protect eBay community and prevent any good sellers here get hurt by her. Though I am new and small (only 27 feedback), I think I deserve your plaudit.
Follwing is my email to her and we will see what will she do. I think I will get a neg but I won't be afraid of that. No big deal.
Dear Traci,
I think the whole thing over again. Yes, you are right. It is not just about the amount of the money but Justice. I should be brave enough to face your treats and prevent any other good eBay sellers get hurt in the future.
I am sorry that I won't refund the money which not belongs to you.
I read over the whole eBay rules, word by word and firmly believe that there is no violation at all from my side. I paste some rules for your reference.
"The seller charged more for shipping than the actual cost. Is that allowed?
The seller is responsible for determining the shipping and handling charges on their auctions, and eBay encourages sellers to clearly describe the item and terms of shipping / delivery in their listings to avoid possible confusion. Before bidding on an auction, bidders should contact the seller about any questions they might still have that are not directly answered in the auction's description. When a bid is placed, the bidder is entering into an agreement with the seller to purchase the item, which most often means incurring shipping charges that may also include handling fees.
1. It is your responsibility to email me if you have questions about shipping and “handling” charge before you bid and pay.
2. People normally charge handling fee for their treasure time and shipping materials.
On the other hand, your emails 100% violated eBay rules. I hold my rights to report you at this moment. Hope you stop threatening me and close this case.
Feedback Offenses
If you've experienced any of these issues, please report offenses to the Investigations link below. Disciplinary action may result in the indefinite suspension of a user's account, temporary suspension, or a formal warning. eBay will consider the circumstances of an alleged offense and the user's trading records before taking action.
• Shill feedback, defensive - Using secondary eBay User IDs or other eBay members to artificially raise the level of your own feedback.
• Shill feedback, offensive - Using eBay User IDs or other eBay members to leave several negative comments for another user
(commonly called feedback bombing).
• Feedback extortion - Demanding any action of a fellow user that he or she is not required to do, at the threat of leaving negative feedback. ("Even though it didn't reach reserve, sell it to me for my bid or..."; "Pay me $100.00 or I will..."; "Sell me all of the Dutch items or I will get all of my friends to..."
• Feedback solicitation - Offering to sell feedback, trade feedback undeservedly, or buy feedback.
If unfortunately I still get a neg feedback from you, I will take following actions to protect my reputation:
1. File this case to Square Trade (http://www.squaretrade.com/), eBay's preferred dispute resolution provider. Once I win the case, they can remove the neg feedback from you and you will get proper punishment.
2. Report Feedback extortion to eBay.
Finally, a kind reminder for the sexy top you posted and selling now:
1. It is better remove the Britney Spears picture from your post if you didn’t get the right to post her picture in your auction for profit.
2. You should better explain that how did you calculate US $6.50 Shipping & “handling” to avoid future “confusing”. Is it actual shipping fee without handling? Will you ship by USPS priority? Will you “overcharge” it for your packing material and time?
Sniping works up a thirst"
