posted on September 1, 2000 01:33:43 PM
OK, here's the sequence of events:
Auction closed 8/10
Past due notice sent 8/24, no response from buyer
NPBA filed 8/28
Check received today in my name for someone else's auction!
The check was made out to me, My EOA notice was included with the check, but the check was short by $2.13 and a different auction was referenced on the memo line.
I notified the buyer of the situation by email this afternoon and told her that considering the length of time that has passed already, I needed to receive payment in the correct amount by Sept. 7th to ship her order. Otherwise I will have to file to recoup my FVF.
Well, she sends me an email saying that I should [b]"MAKE THE CHANGES TO THE CHECK AND MAKE THE APPROPRIATE INITIALS. I
TRUST YOU AND THIS WOULD BE EASIEST, SINCE TIME OF THE ESSENCE."[/b] Then she gave me a long spiel about how she was so busy with her full-time job and all kinds of other activites she mentioned and she has to get up so early in the morning, that's why she made the mistake, blah, blah, blah....
Who cares? That's not my problem. I'm fair to my customers, giving more room to pay than some, not charging handling fees, have recently revised my TOS to point out that I will refund for lost, damaged, (accidental, of course, material differences)etc. I wasn't asking for an explanation, I was telling her that she had by such-and-such a date to pay.
I emailed back that doing such a thing (altering a check) would be illegal and no bank would honor a check that had such blatant alterations.
And since she made it clear that she wasn't going to take the time to send another check, I promptly emailed her that the deal is off and I left her negative feedback. Honestly, some people don't appreciate the extra chances they get.
BTW, I also checked out the auction that she paid for with this check. She was an early bidder on that auction, but she didn't even come close to winning it.
Edited to add: So why would she even reference that auction on the check she sent?
posted on September 1, 2000 02:20:04 PM
...and when the check comes in for payment and the bank sees that the amount's been changed and they don't honor the check? Or the bank actually asks the bidder about the changes to the check, the bidder says "Heck, *I* didn't make those changes! Don't honor the check! That seller is a crook!"
Sounds great to me. You did the right thing. This bidder is a serious loser, and her "busy life" is most definitely NOT your problem. Thanks for warning other sellers via your neg.
posted on September 1, 2000 03:35:41 PM
Oh my--reminds me of the buyer that sent the wrong amount and ok'd my alteration of his check and said to use this email as confirmation of his agreement. Nope--sent the check back to him---got a new check for the right amount another week later.
Easier is not always the most legal. Stick to your guns BJGrolle. You got the scenerio just fine.
posted on September 1, 2000 03:35:47 PM
I think she might have thought you would just cash it and send the stuff for less bucks;but then again I don't think she was that smart.
i agree that altering the check would have been a mistake, but I'm not so sure about going the neg feedback route so quickly. You certainly have the right to decline to sell the item with so much time gone by, but filing the neg so quick often leads to retaliation, in my experience...
posted on September 2, 2000 11:16:08 AM
I'm surprised to see that a few of you have had buyers try this one. Of course, lately, I don't think anything would surprise me.
And personally, I'm not the least bit afraid of retaliatory negs. So far I haven't gotten one and if I do, an intelligent bidder will be able to put 2 and 2 together. And those who come up with 5, just pass my auction by, will ya?
posted on September 2, 2000 08:38:21 PM
Here's my experience.
After waiting forever for contact from the auction winner, I was sent a money order (I will NEVER take a cheque).
The amount of the MO was clearly overwritten. I showed it to the bank and the post office, who both advised against cashing.
Contacted the sender by e-mail, no response. Sent the money order back to the buyer, posted a negative feedback. Eventually the buyer came through with the money, the whole transaction took nearly two months.
My terms are clearly stated on each auction, and still I get personal cheques. I have a special spot on my website for auction winners to pay with credit cards via a secure server, but most are reluctant.
posted on September 2, 2000 11:53:45 PM
BJGrolle - IMHO you were a little quick with that negative.
[i]By your own post you received payment today, GRANTED PAYMENT WAS LATE. BUT you and the buyer had email communication with replies on both ends reference the check problem. Since communication channels were clearly open you already admitted that. You had a chance to save the transaction. Instead you decided to be overbearing and demanding your post also says that. Today is September 2, 2000, Monday is a Federal Holiday. With current communication with your buyer and an error of $2.13 on a check how hard would it have been to email the buyer back that changing the check is not a proper solution and please send a replacement payment and give a more reasonable suspense for the replacement to arrive. Besides you said auction ended 8/10/2000, that was a Thursday since you make no mention of emails before the NPB from ebay. The 3 business day rule for contact ended on Monday 8/14, you waited 10 days for payment by I will assume your TOS and 4 days later on 8/28 filed for NPB. Your post is dated 9/1 with payment in hand so it was mailed when the NPB arrived. That means only 14 business days have passed from end of contact period to payment in hand. So 14 business days is reason to get in a fussy and leave a negative when you have a payment that needs to be corrected by $2.13.
Granted $2.13 may or may not be an amount to argue over. That depends on the item cost and the profit margin made on it. If this is a smaller priced item I can see not wanting to lose $2.13. Afterall we're all business people here. If this was a pricier item with a profit margin in excess of 50% of cost to acquire item for sell. I say cash the check without changes, ship and move on. However the damage has been done and the negative left.
I hope the buyer shows you more consideration than you showed and doesn't leave you a negative in return. Because that entire situation IMHO didn't warrant a negative. Same situation with me as the buyer, it would weigh entirely on what your negative said about the situation. I hope you said something like.
Late payer, check in wrong amount, returned payment voided sale
The above is truthful of the situation and I could live with that in my feedback. If you were vindictive and trying to be hurtful with the negative this is what your negative feedback from me would read.
VERY Difficult Seller left negative when had my payment in hand.
So tell me what did you leave as negative feedback, so I can post my reply to clear your negative from future ebayers minds.
To you other sellers rubber stamping this obviously impatient, quick to leave a negative, unwilling to communicate fairly to resolve a very simple problem seller. How does the situation look when we put the deal in terms of the calendar.
BjGrolle please don't reply with that my TOS says payment due within 10 days of auction close nonsense. Because you say that but actually payment is due 10 days of your email to the buyer. Which may or may not arrive and be confirmed as received within 3 days of auction close by the buyer. My take says you were unfair in this situation. And I have furnished more than enough proof to support my position
Now how could the wrong auction number get on a check with the wrong amount. There are a lot of ways for that mistake to happen. Granted one of those ways is for the buyer to try a fastone for more time or to receive the item at a $2.13 discount. But come on $2.13 is too random of a number to try and intentionally short a person.
Sellers Please Practice The Art Of Asking Yourself How Can I Make This Work. If you can't practice that list your items, sell your items, then ship your items. Every deal that doesn't fall into that file for NPB and relist without a lot of conversation with the buyer. That way you don't hear the excuses that you purport to deplore but love to share here at AW. You never interrupt your operations dealing with them and you get your FVF back from ebay.
posted on September 3, 2000 05:06:05 AMBuyer sent incorrect pmnt. 3 wks later, says I should alter check, won't resend!
Well, that's it exactly, networker67, since you're so anxious to know.
And your opinion is your opinion, you are entitled to that. My TOS say that I expect payment promptly after the auction close. My standard practice has been to send a past due notice after 2 weeks, then send a NPBA if I receive no response within a few days to that. (Such as a polite email saying that payment is on the way.)
Now I do feel that the negative was more than warrented. The buyer refused to respond to my past due notice, NPBA was filed, then I received a payment that was $2.13 short. Call me overbearing if you will, but this buyer had tried my patience at this point. I am more patient than many sellers and the time frames in my original post reference that. Buyer could have agreed to send a replacement check out the next day and it would have reached me by the deadline I gave. But no! She blatently refused to send another and told me to change the check myself!
To me, that constitutes a refusal to pay. A negative was warrented! Anytime a customer doesn't pay after a month, I leave a negative. Anytime a customer refuses to pay, I leave a negative. Refusal to pay or neglecting to pay a month after auction closes, and buyer gets a negative from me. That's it.
As for the $2.13, we're talking about a book that was won for only around $3! Had I shipped with a shortage like that, yes, that would have been a significant loss on that item.
Oh, and my EOA notice is always sent within 24 hrs. of the close of auction. In this case the auction closed very late on 8/10, so notice was sent the next morning on 8/11.
Call me impatient, call me overbearing, call me difficult, whatever.....
But I won't change my take on this situation and I'd do the same thing again in a heartbeat!
Obviously, this comment VERY Difficult Seller left negative when had my payment in hand. if left in my feedback would be a total fabrication of the facts, since a payment of $3.55 on a balance due of $5.68 is not payment in hand. And after reading my feedback comment and such a feedback comment as you would leave, anyone with common sense would clearly see what the deal was in this situation. And especially if such a comment came from a person with single-digit feedback to begin with (as this buyer has) and a prior negative for nonpayment (as this buyer does)!
I am much more willing to work with someone when I see that they haven't already stiffed someone else!
And common sense does seem to be in short supply with some people, doesn't it?
posted on September 3, 2000 09:39:47 AM
BJGrolle - The buyer obviously stiffed you on the shipping. However your negative feedback is also a fabrication of the facts as you presented them here. However the discovery that all of this equates to a buyer shorting on the shipping charges. And we are talking about amounts that IMHO are not worth headaches over.
BJGrolle admittedly it is frustrating to have a $3.55 auction price with $2.13 shipping for a total of $5.68 come in minus the shipping. I would have sent the buyer one email,
Your payment does not include the shipping charges. I cannot send a $3.55 book to you minus the shipping. Please replace your check with one for the correct amount. Unfortunately changing the check is not a workable option. Please reply with your intentions so I can either ship it to you or relist it on ebay.
My negative would have read.
payment missing shipping on $3.50 item
You choose to fabricate and try to create bad impressions so here's the reply in your feedback.
auction ended 8/10, I made a mistake on check, seller difficult to work with.
Since the date would be September 1. You look like the bad guy. You really look like the bad guy when they see this is over $3.50
item. I am not saying you are a bad seller. I am saying that none of this is worth the headache. What are your FVF on a $3.55 item, other buyers will see the 8/10 to 9/1 timeline and might think you are overbearing. Afterall in your negative you admit that you had payment, your feedback is 3 weeks later so exactly 3 weeks from auction close has past, So my reply makes you come off as difficult to deal with. My negative to you shifts all the problems to you and in essence hurts you more than me.
That is one transaction you should have just walked away from. I would have with the piddly amounts factored in. As an ebay seller you only get stiffed if a check bounces and you have already shipped the item. NPB do not stiff you they increase your operating expenses and are annoying but they don't stiff you. Why don't they stiff you because you haven't lost your item.
posted on September 3, 2000 10:29:35 AMYou will be considered in breach of these Guidelines if you do any of the following:
Harass, threaten, or intimidate another member.
Moderator:
I feel that networker67 is coming pretty close to violating the above Community Guidelines, not only in this thread but in others.
His claim that your negative feedback is also a fabrication of the facts as you presented them here. is definitely a libelous statement, as I've done nothing but relate the facts as they occurred. What claim he has to know of the facts is beyond my guess as he is not the buyer in question. And this statement You choose to fabricate and try to create bad impressions so here's the reply in your feedback.
auction ended 8/10, I made a mistake on check, seller difficult to work with.
is certainly misleading as there is no such feedback on my record. Again, he repeats his libelous statements, saying that I'm the one
making things up here! He has purposely addressed me directly and tried to paint me in an unfavorable light, repeatedly saying the I look like the bad guy.
I'm not at all against anyone disagreeing with me as long as they don't call me a liar and omit certain portions of my original post to try and back up their claims. (Such as the fact that the buyer was referencing someone else's auction on a check made out to me! That does not constitute payment to me, particularly when the amount is short what is necessary to ship the order. And I also said in my original post that the buyer was given a chance to make good and she refused!) And that is exactly what has been done here more than once now by this person.
And the amount may seem insignificant to some sellers, but I deal almost exclusively in small ticket items. Should I ship orders regardless of whether someone pays the full amount just because all of the shortages would be small? Ridiculous!
It is people like networker67 who make people like me regret having tried to take part in the AuctionWatch community. I will not be making that mistake in the future.
And no matter what networker67 might say in reply to this post, and I'd be awfully surprised if there wasn't one, I will not repond in any way, because he, and the few people out there like him, just aren't worth my time.
In future, I will spend my time taking care of the business of auctions instead of talking about them in this forum.
Good day to the rest of you who can tactfully disagree and agree to disagree without stooping low and attacking someone in the process.
[ edited by BJGrolle on Sep 3, 2000 10:30 AM ]
[ edited by BJGrolle on Sep 3, 2000 10:32 AM ]
I think I would have held on to the check and asked the bidder for the amount due under separate cover. I probably would not have negged at this point, since I already had most of the money due.
I've had this happen before and shipped the item based on the bidder's promise to pay the amount outstanding, which they did.
But you did what you felt was justified and you can't be faulted for your business practices. We all do things differently. Sometimes I want to neg someone but I think twice.
posted on September 3, 2000 10:43:41 AM
BJGrolle - That was pretty lame of you. We both know no where in my two replies have I purported to be the buyer. You know and I know I was happily discussing what IMHO are your errors. Now if you feel slandered because I think you quick fired a negative and took the time to show you where IMHO your actions were unwarranted well I am very sorry. Sue me.
You weren't insulted, you weren't slandered. You are now upset with me because your get the fellow seller rubberstamp for bad business decisions didn't work on this transaction.
posted on September 3, 2000 11:13:53 AM
mtnmamma - This is getting to be very depressing. Read a long tirade about a bad transaction offer some advice and show where they contributed to elevate situation and they get mad at you. This is really very depressing. Time to enjoy the weekend.
posted on September 3, 2000 05:13:53 PM
networker67:
Lots of the sellers here are rankled by your advise- after all, what you say threatens the power that their "ebay biz'ness" gives them.
1. No one ever got rich by negging buyers
2. See no evil, hear no evil, say no evil is the mantra of a real business person.
What I mean is, I don't care what the excuse is for non-payment, because I don't hear it. I simply would reply "No problem. I am glad to offer you an extension to 8 September to correct the problem." The ebay biz-ness person just negs, and says that they were never going to hear from this person anyway, a real business person takes a wait and see approach.
3. Most real businesses allow 30 days before dunning, 60 before the transaction is in jeopardy.
But this is ebay biz-ness- if you can't pay me in 14 days I can't eat so I'll neg. A real business person asks "would I take this amount of money for this product today?" Of course the usual answer is yes.
This ebay biz-ness mentality would be ok if all it did was drive bidders to the real business people, but unfortunately it drives bidders off of ebay, and that hurts everyone.
material differences)etc. I wasn't asking for an explanation, I was telling her that she had by such-and-such a date to pay.
