posted on September 6, 2000 02:56:41 PM
OK everybody, I am asking for your opinions. It's ok if you think I'm just having a bad day today (I am!!). If so, feel free to tell me I am overreacting and that I need to take the night off - I could go for that!!
For background, I am both a buyer and a seller on eBay. I have bought far more than I have sold, but have sold enough that when disputes are posted here, I tend to empathize with the seller except in clear cases of seller error or misconduct. I think this makes me a pretty good buyer for most sellers to work with.
So, here's today's deal: I won an auction that ended on Saturday night. By last night (Tuesday) I had heard nothing from the seller, so, just a few hours short of 3 full days after auction end, I e-mailed the seller for some information so I could get payment going. I was anxious to get this little widget and wanted to PayPal right away to get it on its way to me. The seller's EOA's are apparently automated and triggered by eBay's EOA, which finally showed up this morning. No real problem so far. But when I finally get the Seller's EOA,it goes like this (cut and pasted from their e-mail):
****IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE PUT ON OUR EMAIL LIST TO BE NOTIFIED OF OUR "FREE **********, PLEASE EMAIL US BACK WITH YES IN THE SUBJECT LINE
CREDIT CARD
CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR EBAY BID FOR THE #********* - Widget
PLEASE CAll US AT 800-***-**** MONDAY - FRIDAY 7.30AM - 7.30M EST WITH YOU SHIPPING AND CREDIT CARD INFORMATION
CHECK
please call us at 800-***-**** to process your order ,we will provide you with an order # to post on your check,PLEASE SPECIFY IN THE BEGINING OF THE ORDER PROCESS YOU WILL BE USING A CHECK*****
PAY PAL
if you would like to use pay pal please call us at 800 ***-**** to process your order and recv an order # and our pay pal account email address***** THIS ADDRESS IS NOT OUR PAY PAL ADDRESS
REGARDS
So, maybe I am just extra grumpy today, but it ticks me off that this seller is making it extra difficult to complete this deal. I sent an e-mail that said: "I don't mean to be difficult, but this is an "ONLINE" auction. I don't want to call you on the phone. Please e-mail me your paypal id so that I can close the deal. Thanks."
Now, clearly, this is not a HUGE deal, nor am I going to lose any sleep over it. I am just curious how it strikes some of you. I have NEVER seen an EOA like this and maybe it just hit me on a really bad day, which is why I'm asking for other opinions. Am I being unreasonable? I really don't want to have to make a telephone call to find out the PayPal address. Would you be irritated at this? Should I just lay down with a cold cloth on my head and a bottle of wine in my hand and call it a day? (SAY YES!!)
posted on September 6, 2000 03:02:20 PM
"Should I just lay down with a cold cloth on my head and a bottle of wine in my hand and call it a day?"
Well, I'd sit up to drink, or get a really long straw...
I agree this seller seems to be a bit weird. Why do you need to call to get information that could *easily* be sent via email? I can see them preferring to take CC#'s over the phone, but to make a buyer go through all that to pay by Paypal seems a little anal, to say the least LOL!
posted on September 6, 2000 03:30:46 PM
nancy: when I spent over 5 months researching shopping sites on the Net, I was appalled at how many of 'em, wanted ya to call their 800#, instead of simply answering the email query when it came in.
I agree with you that eBay is ONLINE and I'd be furious had I won that auction, and there'd been no forewarning in the AUCTION TOS, about you-must-call-us to complete the sale.
I have a sneakin' suspicion that the auctioneer is actually a "FULL-FLEDGE" business, someone who's barged into eBay, the only successful ecommerce website, to STEAL our bidders from us.
I thought if I shared with you maybe 20% of my actual reaction & viewpoint, that you might then, indeed, feel that YOU are being rational, cuz, really, I'd be FURIOUS - but I try real hard to only buy from itsy-bitsy sellers, and will buy OFFLINE, locally, in my RL community before I'll EVER purchase ANYTHING from any big e-tailer, much less one that's barging in a what used to be a community of small sellers and little family eBiz.
posted on September 6, 2000 04:00:11 PM
Joanne - I wish I'd read that good advice BEFORE I tipped the bottle up!! LOL
radh - Thank you. That does make me feel justified in my pique!! There was absolutely no indication that this was an e-tailer. No real TOS at all - just a photo, a paragraph describing the item and the last sentence was "Shipping is $***". The feedback was 114 (only one neg).
posted on September 6, 2000 05:40:02 PM
We must have bought the same widget from the same Idget! It is a full fledged business and I have gotten a dozen emails from them regarding their special deals I can order. I have now forwarded 3 of them back to them. Maybe they'll quit sending them now.
posted on September 6, 2000 07:16:31 PM
rarriffle: S-P-A-M is not tolerated by eBay, and you can forward those emails to [email protected]
geocam: you know, it's really hard for some of us to remember that we are online during the INFANCY of ecommerce.
one of the things that have AMAZED marketers is that people who OPT IN for email updates from e-tailers, well... when they come to receive these email updates, the emails irritate them, and that really startled the marketers.
worse yet, of all things, it turns out that people who receive opt in spam about AUTOMOBILES - they actually are "infuriated" with the emails, there was an article about this sometime back. It was a very unexpected finding to the "experts."
I subscribe to a buncha opt-in spam companies, and in the end result, it is realllllly laughable, cuzza ALL of the offers blend into one big NOTHING. Just a little chore to have to delete my mail box twice a day.
I'll tell ya, I have NO idea what the psychological dynamics are, operative in getting ENRAGED with them 800 numbers, but I suspect that you and I are not alone, and that any day soon, there'll be an online article about that, too.
posted on September 6, 2000 09:25:08 PM
Nancy -
Email them and tell them that all your transactions have to be by email because ... (enter suitable tragedy here, preferably involving destruction of your vocal cords)
Or email and tell them that the only phone in the cell block can't make calls to 800 numbers
posted on September 6, 2000 10:06:54 PM
LOL ABA!!!!
You are not Grumpy! I would be outraged If I was given an 800 # to process a credit card - can we say unsecured or have to get an order number!!! This is not an order - it is an auction you have won.
Here is what I would do:
If the email does not have the last name of the seller, request their information from ebay. Use the last name and the email address and go to paypal and send the payment. Make sure you include the auction number, and your shipping address. LET THEM LOOK UP THE AUCTION NUMBER AND DO THE WORK THEMSELVES!!!
Once you have done this you can even send them your own email with the confirmation number.
What nerve! If this happened to me, I would be more than a little grumpy!!
posted on September 7, 2000 04:38:03 AM
Maybe I am just flaky, but this is the same reason I run from auctions being run with the Andale software. Now I know that some of you are using that software but, as a buyer, I hate to get an e-mail that makes me go to a website to enter 2 or 3 pages of information just to complete the sale. I want to K.I.S.S. (keep it simple, stupid) when I buy.
posted on September 7, 2000 05:28:05 AM
Call me grumpy too, Dixie. I can't stand that Andale stuff. Can they make it any more impersonal and time consuming?
posted on September 7, 2000 06:23:42 AM
Thanks for all the feedback so far. Here's the response I got this morning to my e-mail asking for their PayPal address so that I could complete the auction:
SORRY WE DO NEED TO GIVE YOU AN ORDER # WE NEED TO RUN OUR BUSINESS A CERTAIN WAY IN ORDER TO REMAIN EFFIECENT , THE EBAY CUSTOMERS DEMAND A VERY VERY HIGH LEVEL OF CUSTOMER SUPPORT THEY WANT TO KNOW WHERE AND WHEN AT ALL TIMES AND THEY SETTLE FOR NOTHING LESS THEN FOR PRECISE INFORMATION THIS CAN ONLY BE ACCOMPLISHED BY RUNNING A TIGHT SHIP AND PROCESSING ALL ORDERS IN AN
EFFECIENT AND ORDERLY FASHION , WE ARE OPEN FROM 7.30-7.30 EST M-THURSDAY THAT IS BEFORE MOST PEOPLE WAKE UP OR ARE HOME FROM WORK IF YOU CAN NOT CONTACT US YOU MAY BE FULLY EXCUSED FROM THE AUCTION WITH NO REPROCUTIONS
PLEAE ADVISE HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED?
For starters, I'd like to tell them how to turn off the CAPS LOCK!! I must admit to being greatly relieved that I can get out of this auction with no REPROCUTIONS! LOL
I would really like to neg them and say that they refuse to give out PayPal address without calling. But, I still feel like I must be WAY in the minority (in spite of all of the support here) because they have no negs about this, not even any comments about this - previous customers seem thrilled with their stellar service! Jeez. . .
posted on September 7, 2000 06:28:51 AM
Another vote against the "goto" forms for buyers (as for the 800# - AGH!)....I realize that many of these services (either a central site like Andale or a personal website) are seller tools...BUT...to me it says "hey, I'm too busy making $$ to bother myself with the trivial details like buyers information, so you, my customer, can do the work for me"....Don't like it one bit, nope not one bit!
~ Rancher
Who woke up grumpy this mornin'...but he finally got dressed and went to school!
edited cause I can...
[ edited by rancher24 on Sep 7, 2000 06:30 AM ]
posted on September 7, 2000 07:33:39 AM
Wow, is this a Power Seller? The spelling, grammar, wording, etc. of the email is horrible!
If they really want to run a "tight ship", they should hire people who can put compose a professional email.
I would probably balk at these terms also. I would also block my phone number from coming through on Caller ID if I call their 800 number, and don't think I would give my credit card number over the phone.
posted on September 7, 2000 08:19:39 AM
GeoCam, I won a dutch auction from the same company and got the same eoa notice. It made me grumpy too but it dawned on me that this must be a big distributer using eBay as a cheap catalogue. I decided to ignore the request to call and to "get your order number" which was the same to me as calling to *place an order with an e-tailer (for an item I'd already won at aucton!) I felt safe in just ignoring them because they seemed to be just trying to get me to order from them. I didn't neg them because it seemed a waste of time. I probably should have complained to eBay about their practices, but hey, time flies when you're setting up your own sales and, after a while, the deal faded quietly away from my "leave fb window".
posted on September 7, 2000 08:38:36 AM
I tell you, them ol' big phat e-tailers can NOT compete with the typical liddle itsy bitsy eBay Seller.
They want alla the money and alla the bidders with NONE OF THE WORK, nonna the personal concern and true customer service & knowledge -- very similar, indeed, to the eBay Wannabees who droooooooL over eBay profit margins, but are CLUELESS as to why they exist.
posted on September 7, 2000 09:07:22 AM
Wow! I am sure glad I read this thread... I use Andale - not because "I'm too busy making money to attend to the little details", but because I want to be SURE that I cover all my bases - leaving feedback, getting shipping info, etc. It's a great program for the attention impaired (me!). However- I occasionally get a buyer who does not want to mess with the website, and generally they just email me their info and I fill it out myself. I'm not trying to get buyers to do my work- I'm just trying to work in an efficient and professional manner. Maybe I'll forgo Andale....
posted on September 10, 2000 01:01:50 PM
Update - I have sent 2 e-mails asking the seller to e-mail me either a PayPal payment request or their PayPal address. I have stated that I will be happy to refer to their order number in my payment to preserve the efficiency of their system (and I even managed to NOT sound sarcastic!). Guess what? No replies, zip, nada.
So, I guess the issue for me is this: It appears the seller will just quietly let this drop if I refuse to make the 800 phone call to get the PayPal address - i.e. no negative fb if I don't complete the auction. What I am still not sure of is whether there is anything here to actually complain to eBay about (or a VALID reason for negative fb for the seller). I can't find any rules that say you can't require the bidder to call you when there is no mention of such in the TOS, but it sure seems to be antithetical to the whole idea of ONLINE auctions. I'm inclined to just let it go since 1) they won't deal with me by e-mail alone; 2) I am NOT going to call their 800 number; and 3) I don't like feeling like I am being a major whiner over a minor issue.
posted on September 10, 2000 01:26:39 PMtexmontana - they just email me their info and I fill it out myself
There are three reasons I don't enter information into a web page. First, I see no reason to do the sellers booking/tracking for them. Second, I use an acution tracking program that generates the email text automaticlly, so why should I manually enter the data. And, third, I don't want my personal information entered into a web site that I have no idea who is going to do what with that info. If I found out a seller entered my personal information into this kind of database/website, then that would get the seller the fastest NEG I have ever give out.
I am the only person who has the right to decide where my personal information is given or entered. By giving my information to a seller, I have NOT given the seller the right to enter it in some other non-personal database/website. I would sure try and get eBay to see this a mis-use of personal inforamtion and get the seller suspended.
posted on September 10, 2000 01:42:27 PM
Sigh. There's no law against entering customers' information into your own database, or vice versa. It's called "keeping records." How the information is used is another matter.
I'd like to cast a vote for Andale on the buy side. It lays out shipping and payment options very clearly, unlike most sellers' EOA emails. It gives one a tracking link, and the whole process is very easily accomplished without a lot of sappy chatty nonsense. If sellers included the same info with their EOA emails, it'd be one thing, but they don't. I've had two recently with NO MAILING ADDRESS--and after wading through the Simon Says routine on payment terms and teasers for their forthcoming auctions, that's a bit annoying. JMO.
posted on September 10, 2000 02:00:24 PM
Hi Grumpy
idle suggestion
- Place muffle over over phone receiver, arrange lots of background noise, call 800 number, speak very slowly, feign thick accent, be very hard of hearing, don't comprehend long words nor idioms, be interuptted...
- Refer them to http://www.deafqueer.org/
posted on September 10, 2000 02:27:07 PMpareau - I assume the 'sigh' was for the comment in my post. If you will re-read the post, you will notice I said non-personal database/website. I was not saying I did not want the seller to keep their own records, I was stating my opinion, that if I did not enter the information in the web page (for privacy reasons), then seller has no right to over-ride that decision and enter the information in any web site where I have not agreed to the privacy policy.
For all I know Andale could be spamming every one of the buyers that enter information into the database (or worse yet, selling the information to every other spammer on earth.)
Sellers, Please, If you want to use a web service for your records, then make filling it out optional and DON'T enter information into the web database unless you ask the buyer if this is acceptable.
posted on September 10, 2000 02:39:03 PM
I also enter buyer's information into my auctionwatch page if they can't/won't do it themselves. I always tell them that if they send me the information, I'll go and enter it myself, if they won't or can't. No one has ever complained about that.
Some people have a problem with sending personal information through an e-mail. I, personally, prefer having my information stored in my auction watch account for buyers to access there rather than sending it out dozens of times a day to buyers through easily intercepted e-mail.
posted on September 10, 2000 02:40:41 PM
Greg-
I think I made it clear in my previous post that if a buyer did not want to fill out the information, that I would- thereby making it optional. I have never written a buyer and said, "You didn't fill out the form, so I won't sell to you until you do". Also, the only reason I have ever been given as far as why a buyer did not fill out the form was that they couldn't access it. The information is entered onto an invoice, generated by Andale. I HAVE read their privacy policy, and it does state that my customers information will not be sold. I am taken aback by your first post- Tex
posted on September 10, 2000 03:02:50 PM
Yeah, yeah, yeah. (I'm getting into the "grumpy" spirit of this thread, not as if I needed a nudge.) This stuff about privacy is all spitting in the wind, IMO. As long as it's self-regulated, it'll be a free-for-all. The only solution that I can see at the moment is a sham identity, with maildrop for an address and an answering service for a phone number.
Oh, and when you call an 800 number, most are set up to show the info associated with your calling number (billing name and number), whether you have caller ID block on or not.
They're going to collect the info, regardless. It's what they DO with it that matters.
Hip, hip, hurraH for Pierre Omidyar!