posted on September 26, 2000 10:25:36 PM new
I sent out an email to a bidder who has not completed a transaction that ended 30 days ago.
I received this email from the bidder:
Please let me check my records and I will get back to you tommorrow. I didn't think I had anything outstanding but I could have made a mistake.
Then the bidder sent this email:
Dear Kelly,
I dont seem to have any emails from you. I keep all outstanding e-mails when
I am waiting for an item to arrive. Either you mailed me the sparkle pin or
I bought it off someone else. Once my transactions are completed; I throw
away all copies of money order receipts. I have never had this occurence
before and I bid on many different items. The only thing I can think of is
that you either never sent me an original e-mail after the auction as I
always wait to be contaced by the seller. I checked the auction # and saw
that I was the high bidder. I do have the pin and received it from somebody
on E-Bay whether it was you or someone else. I always respond to an e-mail
within a day or two. Do you have any emails from me regarding this auction?
If so, please email me a copy. I am wondering why it took you so long to
contact me. The auction closed in August and the sent mail on the computer
is deleted from August. Are you sure that it is me who didnt pay? Do you
sell multiple pins? Please foward me a copy of your first email that you
sent. If I made a mistake, I will gladly pay for the pin. I would have paid
for this item by money order. PLMK
Ok, I don't have payment, so I sent this email to the bidder:
I am sure that I haven't mailed out the pin, or received payment. The way
that I keep my records is that I print out the auction, which goes into a
folder. When I receive payments I copy the payment, attach the copy to the
auction, enter the shipping and payment in a data base and print 2 invoices,
one is the shipping label and the other gets stapled onto the paperwork. If
I haven't heard back from a bidder or I haven't received payment, I send a
second email.
I also don't have any emails from you, but when I pulled up the email that
I sent (copied below) I typed your email address wrong. This is what caused
the problem.
This is a copy of my first email, which was mailed to XXXXXXXXXXXXXX. I
am sorry for the confusion this has caused.
I realized that I typed the address wrong by one letter, so I didn't know that the bidder didn't receive the email.
I thought my letter explained what had happened, and I thought that the next email I would receive would state that the bidder would have payment on its way.
I was wrong. This is the email that I received:
I dont beleive I ever received that e-mail. Why would you wait until the end
of September to send a second email out? You say in your letter you will
hold an item for only 30 days and that would have been past 30 days as the
auction ended on August 13. I have to assume you never sent me the first
email that would have been the only way I would not have sent payment out. I
have since bid on another auction and have received that pin. I'm going to
assume you never recived any email from myself either which means you di not
contact me at the end of the auction.
Ok, I send this email:
As I stated in my last email, I sent the email, but typed the email wrong,
for which I apologized for.
I do not put a time limit as to when I need to receive the payment by. I
have stopped using the line "I will hold
your merchandise for 30 days" in my current EOA's. Ebay allows 60 days for
auctions transactions to be completed, which we are well under. In the
"about me" section on ebay I state that I usually send my emails out within
24 hours after an auction ends, and that if bidder's haven't heard from me,
they can send me an email, which lets me know that something has happened to
the email. Because I didn't receive an email back, I didn't know that you
had never received my first email.
Again, I apologize for the confusion this has caused. Please let me know if
you plan to honor your bid.
I do have a question about your ebay account. Who is John Doe?
I pulled up the ebay user info, and the name on the account is different from the person that I am dealing with.
The bidder is now claiming that since they never received my email, they bid on another pin. Yet at the beginning, they said they thought they had paid me. It seems the bidder's story shifts in the emails that I receive.
And now they are upset that I waited 30 days to contact them? All of my late paying bidders have thanked me for being so patient and not giving them a neg.
Seller's what would you do? Does the story sound fishy from the bidder? Do I apply for the credit? What about leaving feedback?
posted on September 26, 2000 11:09:06 PM newThe bidder is now claiming that since they never received my email, they bid on another pin. Yet at the beginning, they said they thought they had paid me.
Her first reply said: "Either you mailed me the sparkle pin or I bought it off someone else." and "I do have the pin and received it from somebody on E-Bay whether it was you or someone else." so I don't see a significant change in story.
Since you know that she didn't get your invoice (you looked it up and the addy you typed in was wrong), I'm guessing that she bids on a lot of stuff and keeps track of auctions by the invoices she receives from the sellers, rather than by looking at MyEbay. It seems she had in mind that she wanted a sparkle pin, then forgot she'd "won" one, and bid on another and did get that one.
I suppose you could do a bidder search and see if she bid on other sparkle pins. But to be honest, since you (technically) didn't send her an invoice, I think it might be best to not try to force her into buying (another) sparkle pin. If she decides not to buy it, I'd leave no feedback - file FVF stating that both of you agreed not to complete the transaction.
posted on September 26, 2000 11:22:55 PM new
Thanks Glenda,
I needed another persons perspective. I sent another email stating that if they didn't want to complete the transaction, I would understand, and I wouldn't leave any negative feedback.
If I turn this situation into an "I want to be right" situation, I will probably end up in an email battle and wind up with a negative being posted to my ebay account.
posted on September 26, 2000 11:24:44 PM new
Moderators, I am not kellyb1 on ebay, and there are hundreds of these items, so the name of the pin isn't enough to identify who the bidder is, or who I am on ebay.
posted on September 26, 2000 11:34:05 PM new
I would say, forget it and don't try to force the winner to pay. This was your mistake. What I don't understand is if you typed in the wrong email address, why didn't it come back to you as undeliverable. I'm also not sure where you get the idea that eBay allows up to two months to complete a transaction.
Take the instance of a seller dealing with a non-paying bidder. Seller must wait at least seven days, then file NPB alert. At that point, eBay notifies the bidder and also warns the bidder that the seller is within their rights not to hold the item because "so much time has passed." In other words, if the bidder doesn't pay within seven days, the seller is technically allowed to cancel the deal. It seems only fair to give the bidder the same benefit: If the bidder doesn't receive your notice within a week, they can assume the deal's off. Actually, I think eBay suggests contacting the bidder within three days.
I agree with reddeer, and I admire his colorful phraseology.
posted on September 26, 2000 11:34:49 PM new
By the way, Kelly, a similar thing happened to me recently. Two weeks after the auction closed, I realized I hadn't gotten an invoice from the seller. I wrote to her - she checked, and had sent it to a .con email address instead of to my .com address (I presume it bounced; I don't know why she didn't investigate and re-send it).
I sent the payment the next morning. But if I hadn't wanted it, I wouldn't have felt that I should "have" to complete the transaction, because of the seller's error.
(Yeah, it's eBay policy that both seller and bidder should contact each other, but after 3 years of buying, I figure it's the role of the person who wants the money to initiate contact.)
As it was, I did get a bit annoyed - the seller held my check for clearance, though the auction didn't mention it nor did her email. I thought that, since the auction was already delayed by so long due to her error, she could have expedited the $2 or so purchase.... I did leave positive feedback, but sent a short, polite note after I had received the item.
posted on September 27, 2000 09:45:33 AM new
Glenda,
Had the email been bounced back to me, I would have known that a problem happened, and I would have sent out a new email right away. Because it didn't get bounced back, and I never heard from the bidder, I had no way of knowing that there even was a problem.
I've explained what happened, applogized for it, told the bidder if they don't want to complete the transaction that is ok, and that I wouldn't leave negative feedback.
I don't see anything wrong with saying this. I wanted to reasure the bidder that I wasn't the type of seller who would say one thing and then turn around and do another.
People don't realize that emails get redirected and lost all of the time. I have sent emails to friends that never receive them. People think that if an email gets sent it will be reached at the other end no matter what. This is not always the case.
posted on September 27, 2000 09:55:10 AM new
>What I don't understand is if you typed in
>the wrong email address, why didn't it come
>back to you as undeliverable.
I can tell you--the erroroneous email is valid, and the owner of that address didn't respond to let the seller know that s/he sent the email to the wrong address. Hubby and I each have Hotmail addresses at which we REGULARLY receive email intended for other users, who seem to be teenagers with friends who participate in several "bulk response" lists. We no longer even read the emails that are sent to us erroneously, let alone notifying the sender. My "look alike's" MOTHER continued to write me repeatedly, even though I informed her that this was NOT her 16 yo's correct email addy. What a waste of time!
posted on September 27, 2000 10:58:58 AM new
Ok (deep breath). I've been a buyer most of my ebay "career". I recently made the jump into selling off some almost new clothing that I can no longer wear and trinkets that I have bought at yard sales. I posted way too many things for sale and found myself scrambling to set up a system for tracking my sales.
That said, I admire fulltime sellers who do an excellent job of posting auctions, wonderful photos, prompt email communication to top bidder, notifying bidder of receipt payment, posting FB to top bidder, prompt mailing of said merchandise and follow up if bidder is uphappy with merchandise.
I think I can now see both sides of buyer/seller issues. What was the question? Oh, yes, also, since I'm over 45, I seem to live in a constant state of confusion at the loss of my fabulous brain and intellegence that comes from the medical condition known as CRS.
I understand the bidder's confusion. Been there, done that. I also see how the seller made the error. But, I think if I were the seller, I would have stopped short of that last email to the bidder. At the point the seller realized the mistake, I would have just agreed to end the transaction and start over.
This poor transaction has so many compounded problems and each one added to the confusion. I'd part as friends, and leave no FB.
True story, My DIL went into early labor and I had to leave town on an hour's notice. I had no time to contact bidders (LAST thing on my mind) or cancel auctions. I emailed all bidders from my son's account, explaining the situation. Without exception, everyone was gracious.
When I got home I sent all shipments with a photo of the 4lb preemie still in the incubator along with an extra item as thanks. To my sellers where I was top bidder, all of them took paypal, so I was able to complete those auctions with no hassles. Some bidders didn't leave FB, maybe they would not have anyway, but at least I didn't get any negs out of the situation.
Not my name on ebay.
[ edited by Valleygirl on Sep 27, 2000 11:05 AM ]
posted on September 27, 2000 11:18:46 AM new
It is easy for such errors to make a transaction fall through the cracks. When I send an EOA I place a copy of my email into a file just for that. Then if I don't hear back from my bidder within a week, I resend it. When I receive a reply I move it to a different folder so that I always know that mail in the first folder has not yet been responded to. I have several times had buyers say that they never received the first email (even though the address was correct) -- this can be caused by any number of interruptions/blockages along the route and you may not always get notice that it wasn't delivered. So unless I hear back, I assume that my email was either lost or overlooked.
I am amazed at how many people rely on typing out an address. That just really increases the odds that an error could be made! Don't most, if not all, mail programs allow you to highlight the email address and copy and paste it in? ...If not, then I'd double and triple-check my spelling before sending it out.
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
posted on September 27, 2000 11:36:18 AM new
Kelly, *I* think it was okay that you told her you wouldn't leave negative feedback. It was a good reassurance to her and possibly prevented a "first strike" neg from her to you.
It's entirely possible that if you mistyped the first part of the email addy, it went to the wrong address and didn't bounce back to you. As for my situation, I didn't/don't think there are any .coN addresses, so I presume(d) that it bounced.
posted on September 27, 2000 11:42:47 AM new
ValleyGirl,
I now realize that I shouldn't have sent the last email. When I read the first email from the bidder I thought the bidder was saying if a mistake had been made and the auction had remained unpaid, they would pay it.
What the bidder was actually stating was: if the bidder had made the mistake they would follow through with the transaction.
It seems like people on the boards here want to either jump on the band wagon and either bash the bidder or bash the seller; which ever one was at fault.
I was not looking for someone to "hop on board and bash the bidder with me." I was looking for a fresh perspective, which I received right away from Glenda, and was confirmed by others.
Even though the mistake was unintentional, it was my mistake. Do not try to force the transaction to close.
I have been selling for a long time on ebay. My auctions clearly spell out all details of the auction, including the s&h charges. I don't include any line that states, "Payment due 7 days from close of auction."
Bidders have always been very pleased with my auctions, and many describe my items as being in better condition that stated in the auction.
I notify the bidder right away, have an about me page that tells the bidder I will notify them in 24 hours, and if they haven't heard from me they can contact me. I have had one other case of a bidder contacting me asking for info. This was a week after I sent the notice. In that case, they had received the original but forgot about it.
I had one buyer a couple of weeks ago that one an auction but the email was bounced back to me stating, "XXXXX is not accepting email from this sender." Most sellers would turn them into ebay, give them a neg and move on. I picked up the phone and called.
Sure enough, there was a problem with his email that he didn't know about. He had switched servers. I gave him my address over the phone and he asked me to if I could try again, which I did. It went through that time. I received his money order for almost $50.00 and everything was fine. He thanked me for calling him and not just giving him a neg and moving on. He was waiting for email from several other sellers and he didn't understand why it was taking so long.
Please don't judge me for the one transaction that I posted this topic about. I am human, and I am not perfect. Most of the time things go smoothly.
This one time, I mishandled the situation. This is why I am glad of the boards here. It gives me the oportunity to get other peoples opinion.
Thanks Glenda, I always love reading your responses. And thank to everyone else who also responded.
posted on September 27, 2000 11:49:27 AM new
Rainy Bear, too funny
I should have explained that it was the first letter in the addy that I typed wrong and not the extension. Also, when I type the addy this is how I type it:
ebay id <xxxxx.xxx>
I am using a new email program so when you go into the sent emails it just shows
ebay id
my old one showed the whole thing
ebay id <xxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
I had to actually open the sent email hit forward to see the email address. My new email doesn't even have a button to resend emails. I was using endora, and now I am using the program outlook explorer. I am finding that while it has spell check and endora doesn't, it's harder to use. Hope I get used to it soon.
Kelly
[ edited by kellyb1 on Sep 27, 2000 11:50 AM ]
posted on September 27, 2000 11:53:23 AM new
Bashing? I must have missed that?
Unlike Glenda [sorry, no ditto this time] I don't think the words "negative feedback" should have been used in the last email.
Why would you leave negative feedback? Why even mention it?
I would have apologized profusely for my mistake & thanked them for being so understanding. That said, there wouldn't have been any need to mention negative feedback.
posted on September 27, 2000 11:54:01 AM new
Golly, did it sound like I was bashing you? I sure didn't mean that. I was trying to show I understood both sides.
Not my name on ebay.
posted on September 27, 2000 11:56:29 AM new
Sounds like this one is heading for FVF.
I email EOAs very promptly after most auctions and I email again within three days if I do not hear from them. If I think the email got stuck somewhere; I'll use an alternate email to send from. If I haven't heard back, I file an NPB on day seven and proceed to contact the next bidder.
You should email directlty from a clipboarded address or the hyperlink provided by eBay.
You have a model business system, but it sure is labor intensive. Everything I do is through my database. Any unpaid auction comes up in a query which I run at least once each week.
posted on September 27, 2000 12:15:43 PM new
kellyb1, Which version of Eudora? 4.0 - 4.2 have spell checkers, but I can't say for sure about their later versions, except the later versions are a pain.. lol
As far as the problem with the bidder, I would have to agree with everyone else.
I do have one thing to add though, perhaps a suggestion..
Missing mail can cause quite a few problems. I use to have that quite a bit last year, especially emailing AOL users. I have stopped having that problem though, because I did add an extra step into my emailing process. The extra step takes all of about 15 seconds so it's not a major deal.
I send an email to the winning bidder requesting his address. Once I receive it, then I send him mine.
This way, you confirm that the email address you have for the bidder is working and you don't sit for 3-4 weeks waiting for a payment that may never come because of misdirected email. Now, it's entirely possible that any follup emails may become lost and the bidder never receives your address/total/etc.. but the odds are less likely.
posted on September 27, 2000 12:44:55 PM new
Rosebud,
That's a good idea. I was sending my second emails a week after but in the last month or so I have extended the time. I need to go back to sending the second email 7 days if I haven't heard anything.
Does anyone use outlook express? I can't figure out how to resend an email. I have been hitting forward and doing a cut and paste, but it is really time consuming. The Endora program that I was using is really old.
I am also using an outdated version of works and not word, so the data base and creation of an invoice is also labor intensive. But my customers love the invoice used as the label.
It does look like I need to streamline what I am doing.
I had to go to the emergency room last Thursday at 3:30 am for unexplained intense pain in my stomache and back. Since then I have had pain on and off, which I think has made me more sensitive than normal, hense the feeling that I was being bashed, when I wasn't. Sorry about that.
Since I am having a test done in the hospital which will require me to be on heavy drugs, I didn't start any new auctions to close this week, until I find out what is going on. Also, if I needed a few days to recover, having a bunch of auctions closing would mean risking sending notices out late, and I didn't want to do that.
posted on September 27, 2000 01:13:25 PM new
Kelly - I don't know about Eudora Lite, but I purchased Eudora 3.0, then upgraded to 3.0.5 -- and both of those versions have spell-checkers (not that it'd help with email addresses, though). I was wondering if you were using one of the "junkosoft" (MS) products -- but even they should be sophisticated enough to let you see the entire email address without unecessary trouble. Maybe there's a setting you can change? But Mballai is correct that it's really easy to get the email address from either the EOA notice from ebay or from clicking the user ID on ebay and getting the email address that way (If you have several EOA notices to send it helps if you sign in first so you don't keep having to enter your ID and password to get them all.) I think it's a standard Windows protocol that highlighting something and then hitting control-C will copy it and then control-V will paste it. That works in all of my Window's-based programs, as well as Netscape browser (unless I have more than 2 Netscape browser windows open -- which is probably something in my settings). (But I don't use any "junkosoft" browsers.)
I hope it didn't seem like I was bashing anyone. Of course people make mistakes. I think it'd be wise to work out a system for yourself that would prevent you from going for a whole month before noticing you had not had a response from the bidder, though.
Also I don't think one should take personal a message which says "XXXXX is not accepting email from this sender." unless there was previous history of bad blood between you. Some ISPs (AOL, I think) seem to have that as a default setting and the poor user doesn't have a clue that their ISP is sending those kind of mail refusals. (I'm not sure how you work around that for an auction. In my case, with a friend, I just let them know in person and they changed the setting to accept my email.)
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
kellyb
-- but even they should be sophisticated enough to let you see the entire email address without unecessary trouble. Maybe there's a setting you can change? But Mballai is correct that it's really easy to get the email address from either the EOA notice from ebay or from clicking the user ID on ebay and getting the email address that way (If you have several EOA notices to send it helps if you sign in first so you don't keep having to enter your ID and password to get them all.) I think it's a standard Windows protocol that highlighting something and then hitting control-C will copy it and then control-V will paste it. That works in all of my Window's-based programs, as well as Netscape browser (unless I have more than 2 Netscape browser windows open -- which is probably something in my settings). (But I don't use any "junkosoft" browsers.)