posted on September 27, 2000 06:19:57 PM
I am soon going to start a batch of clothing auctions and I want to make sure my TOS is clear but not too wordy. (I've already chopped a bunch of stuff down).
I also want to come across as friendly, trustworthy, but not a complete pushover.
The main thing with clothing is that you can't try it on, and this is my first attempt at selling adult clothing. I want bidders to be responsible for how they read the measurements, and so I do not want to entertain returns for their misinterpretation.
Here's what I've got so far:
###############
CLOTHING MEASUREMENTS
- Measurements stated for bust, waist & hips are the total (front & back). Please remember to allow room for comfort as these are the fabric dimensions and NOT body dimensions.
Please feel free to email me for questions or clarification of measurements prior to bidding.
SHIPPING INFORMATION Shipping to US residents (lower 48 states):
- $5.15 US for Surface Mail, Small Packet rate (takes about 10-12 business days)
- $6.65 US for Air Mail, Small Packet rate (takes about 4-6 business days)
- If you wish for Regular Parcel rate with Insurance, please contact me with your address. The rates for this service are based on the mailing zone you live in.
Shipping to Canadian residents:
- Regular Parcel rates are based on postal codes. Please contact me for shipping rate.
Shipping to all other International residents:
- Please contact me for international rates.
- I will always combine successful bids for a lower shipping price.
PAYMENT INFORMATION
- I accept Personal Checks, Cashiers' Checks, International Postal and Bank Money Orders, and Well-Concealed Cash.
- Payment is due in US dollars
- If you live in Canada, I will gladly convert your total to Canadian dollars for you.
- Please have payment to me within 14 days of the end of the auction.
AFTER THE SALE
- I try my best to make sure that all information I provide is as honest and accurate as possible. If I have made an error, I will do all that I can to make it right, so that we are both happy with the end result. I cannot be responsible for bidders misjudging clothing measurements or descriptions. In general, I have a policy of no returns.
Thank you for looking at my auctions and happy bidding!
Please see my other auctions for more beautiful clothing and shoes.
#####################
So, any great teachers out there to offer feedback to me? Please be gentle.
posted on September 27, 2000 06:50:22 PM
Hi, Jozi -- looks good to me.
And you didn't ask about the terms themselves (just the language), but I have to ask why you have a no return policy? And is this new or used clothing?
I personally don't think I'd bid on anything on ebay where the Seller had specified in advance that there'd be no returns. Perhaps esp. when it comes to clothing, I think.
I buy a lot of my clothes mail order, and I can't tell you how many things I've had to return -- probably about 30% or more. Why? Different manufacturers have different *cuts* and even slightly different sizing. Something that may fit me in one line doesn't in another, and sometimes even within the same lines. Further, sometimes the style is just not flattering. Or the fabric or quality weren't quite what I was expecting. And so on. And for some of us, fit involves a lot more than bust, waist and hip measurements <g>.
Just some thoughts. Perhaps that's how it's done on ebay in that category, I don't know. If so, carry on! And good luck.
posted on September 27, 2000 06:57:27 PM
I sell clothing only - and I also state NO RETURNS in my auctions. This has been my policy for over 2 years and I have had no complaints. I sell both used and new clothing and I give very specific measurements. I ask my bidders to know their measurements prior to bidding to ensure a perfect fit.
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
posted on September 27, 2000 07:25:38 PM
CleverGIrl- Thank you for your feedback. I understand what you're saying about mail order clothing.
The items I am selling are all used but excellent quality and condition. I can't compare my selling to large mail-order companies.
I feel that what I sell is similar to buying clothing at a yard sale. For the most part, you see the clothes but don't try them on. So no returns on those kinds of purchases either.
I realize that it's not exactly the same thing. At least at a yard sale, you can inspect for quality and condition. I feel confident enough in my items that my buyers are always pleased that the quality was even better than what they thought it might be.
I also looked at this like a buyer might, since I am a buyer too. I recently bought something on eBay that I thought would fit me properly. The dimensions were listed and I did read them. But the item just wasn't made for me. So I know exactly what you mean when you mention being more than just a set of measurements. They way I see it, I gambled and it didn't pay off for me. Oh well! I'll just turn right back around and sell it on eBay. I even told the seller about it and she gave me permission to use her picture if I wanted to. I never would have expected her to take it back. So I guess that's where I base my decision on. I feel that it's not the seller's fault if something does not conform properly to the buyer's body.
posted on September 27, 2000 07:30:11 PM
They look fine to me. I sell gently used and new ladies apparel. No probs with my NO REFUNDS OR EXCHANGE policies either. Just make sure to tell the condition and there wont ever BE a prob.
These look fine to me. Nothing there that would scare me off- and that's what you've got to watch for.
Mine are much shorter, just a couple sentences, and I've never had a problem. But I don't sell clothes. And you've got to find your own comfort level. (I don't state "Payment is due......" for example).
I also have a no return policy and bidding is good no return dont mean NO refund I just dont pay the double shipping if you send a photo of the Items damage and there was no insurance I would refund infull or partly based on a picture and buyers agreement which has the package and Item I shipped and shows some kind of damage.
there is simply not enough profit to pay this double shipping. I have only had 1 damage claim in many auctions not only did the buyer get the insurance claim but I resent them a like Item as a thanks for sending the photo.
I dont go for refunding do to buyer remorse at all, but many good buyers collectors know what they are buying very well if I made a mistake and they educate me as to what it was they surely would get a refund.
WWW.dman-n-company.com
posted on September 27, 2000 07:36:54 PM
It's really this line that is nagging at me: "In general, I have a policy of no returns."
I'm thinking it sounds like I'm not really sure of my policy, when really I am, but I don't want the phrase to come across as overly negative or a turnoff to potential bidders.
posted on September 27, 2000 07:50:31 PM
It's an auction, not a retail store; I don't really think it's necessary to say "all sales are final." I've done over 2,000 sales without this, without problem. Then again, maybe this is a problem specific to clothing auctions.
posted on September 27, 2000 07:52:45 PM
How about something like, "No returns except in the case where the merchandise is not as advertised." And then be scrupulous in your description. I've seen it worded more elegantly on some auctions. I'm sure some of the wordsmiths here can help.
posted on September 27, 2000 07:54:52 PM
The problem with apparel is, sometimes, they wear them for a special occassion, then want a refund due to "this or that". Same as in retail stores...wear them once or twice, take it back and get money. Nope. Cant do that in this business. At least, I cant. I say UP FRONT what I expect...the less confusion, the less problems. Jozi, go look at my sales if you wish. Im mauimoods on ebay. And, if you feel uncomfortable with TOS on the auction in general, try putting more detail of what you expect on your ABOUT ME page...I have it there, also...just a bit more "and furthermores"
edited to add that I HAVE given refunds, but only if I made an error. I have given refunds 3 times in the 2 years I have been selling. Also, I offered a credit, instead of having them send it back. They keep my email SAYING they have a credit, for future ues (in case I forget, which is usually the case if alot of time has elapsed). The offer of credit was accepted happily too, I might add.
posted on September 27, 2000 07:57:44 PM
For those of you who don't offer returns--what do you do when you receive nasty emails from buyers stating YOU were wrong in measuring, etc.?
Have you noticed any decrease in bids.
Interestingly enough, the only problem with buyers wanting refunds are the auctions that I stated "All Sales Final". When I say nothing, there doesn't seem to be a problem.
posted on September 27, 2000 08:47:27 PM
I first began on ebay selling my used business clothing when I lost weight. On the auction I had the sizes as stated in the garment and whether I thought they fit large or small, as well as the length of the top, dress or skirt. If you wear a size 18 and your garmet is a size 20 then it fits small. If your garment is a size 16 then it fits big. When it comes to clothing, not too many women don't know their size. I put a closeup of the material on the ad and a picture of the garment in full length taken outside if possible where the light is better.
I don't know what is wrong with offering refunds. Chances are you never will have to deal with the winning bidder again. In my winning bid letters, I've always offered refunds less shipping and I never have had to give a refund. It does give a customer confidence in the seller.
When I see too many rules and regulations on an auction, I become leery. It's as if the seller has gone a few rounds in the ring already. I've seen some TOS that are way too officious and bureaucratic. They stop me in my tracks and make me turn the other way.
I like to treat people as I want to be treated, so I don't have and never will have TOS in my auctions, other than the pictures, description and actual shipping info.
posted on September 27, 2000 10:18:56 PM
Our clothing auctions state no returns unless the item is not as described. (All items are guaranteed to be as described, otherwise all sales are final) This is normally taken to mean no obvious flaw such as holes or snags, and bidders are great about that. Believe it or not, we have missed holes and have refunded in that instance. We normally refund shipping one way.
We had one customer that could find no obvious flaws, but still felt it wasn't as described. We told her if she returned we would be able to only refund purchase price. We never heard from her again.
I have refunded once on a hole and once on a stain. That is all. I have never had someone who wanted me to refund due to it not fitting.
If you are meticulous in your descriptions, you will be fine. I have sold stuff with what I thought were horible flaws and the receipient loved the item. I've found that if it is disclosed, you will still get bids, and no surprises makes for happy customers.
Measurements should include more than just bust, hips, waist. For instance, I have narrow shoulders, so I don't want anything with high measurments across the shoulders.
We include measurements across the shoulders, bust, waist, hips, length, sleeve length from underarm to hem.
On pants we include the inseam length.
The lengths are quite important as I model and am 5'6", so it will be longer on someone who is 5'2" or shorter on someone who is 5'9".
I find that if someone needs more measurements than provided, they will email. However, I try, and usually succeed in giving enough that they get a great fit.
Just what we do, hope it gives you some ideas that might help.
posted on September 27, 2000 10:31:59 PM
Sorry for my minor derailment, but I just heard from a customer who is NOT happy (sheesh...is this karma for talking about not having any probs?). She says "how could you advertise this as a 3x when its not?" and when I went to look at the description, it states "Bust is 54 to 60 (stretchy) and made by CAROLYN TAYLOR. Length is 30. The skirt is from India, made by HER STYLE, rayon, elastic waist is 28 unstretched, 42 stretched and length is a long 37!!"
A bust of 54 IS a 3X. Plain and simple. NOW you know why I never go with label sizes, only measurements. I dont know if I want to refund or not...seems she didnt measure herself BEFORE bidding. Gotta think on this one (no, shes not a regular customer).
"Measurements stated for bust, waist & hips are the total (front & back)."
Is this for the item laid flat and then measured? I don't understand it, and would probably move on and not bid.
In your shipping section: is this just the shipping charge? If not I would state "shipping and handling"
Also I am confused by the terms that you use. What form of shipping are you using? USPS? UPS? another service. Again I am confused and would move on. I am used to seeing, "$XX.XX shipping and handling 1st class USPS or $XX.XX priority mail USPS.
Ok, now it looks like you may be a Canadian seller. If so,I now understand why you listed your shipping terms the way you did.
"After the sale" I find this really wordy. You might even want to create an about me page, and put that there.
As for the returns, you might want to simply state, "no returns unless item was different than described."
"Please see my other auctions for more beautiful clothing and shoes. "
This would be considered spam by ebay. The description page should only contain info about the item for auction, according to ebay. If I was doing a search with the keyword shoes, I would get all of your auctions. This really ticks some people off, and the next thing you know you have your first warning from ebay.
I would also add if you ship upon receipt of payment, or if you wait to ship if personal check clears.
Here is my standard TOA:
"Payment by cashiers check, money order, PayPal, and VISA/Mastercard VIA PayPal ship next day. Personal checks held until clear.
S&H is $1.00; carefully wrapped and then mailed in a bubble envelope 1st class mail, or Priority Mail for $3.20. Insurance is optional & extra.
International Money Order or bidpay.com if outside of USA. International S&H will be higher.
California residents please add 7.75% sales tax.
Combine winning bids to save on shipping!
Good luck and thank you for viewing my auction!
All content within this listing is the property of respective owners and may not be copied or used for any reason without express written permission."
I use html and have each term listed with a bullet.
On my about me page I going into more detail on how I package and ship my auctions.
Just my 25 cents, inflation, you know.
ps. sorry about my bad spelling but AW doesn't ahve spell check yet.
posted on September 28, 2000 04:01:23 AM
mauimoods- Thanks! I'm going to go have a look at your auctions. Great idea about the credit too!
jensmome- Thanks for the wording and I had forgotten to add the non-smoking environment clause.
ericahayes- That's what I'm trying to avoid too, is too many rules and regs, and I don't think I've got too many right now. I just want to make sure that my wording is friendly and not off-putting.
goingfishing- My actual item description does show many more measurements than just bust, waist & hips. I was taking the opportunity to explain that those measurements were for the front and back of the garment. I had a hard time wording that, as kelly also pointed out that she didn't understand it.
I want bidders to know that if I state that the waist of a piece is 26, then I don't want them to think that I mean it is 26 inches across instead of 26 inches around. Actually, by typing this in, I may have just solved my own dilemma. I will add the word "around" after those specific measurements.
I've got to go to work, but I'll be back to reply to some more of the comments I received.
posted on September 28, 2000 05:20:51 AM
Your Canadian and International both ask for an email--simplify by combining.
Also
I accept... in US dollars to simplify
Your after the sale isn't decisive enough. How 'bout: I strive for the most accurate descriptions possible and accept no returns. If the item does not really match my description please contact me.
posted on September 28, 2000 07:34:39 AM
Ok. I've re-worked it some more and really pared it down, thanks to all of your suggestions.
mballai- Thanks for the wording. I will use that.
kelly- I will fix the measurement statement directly in my item description. I have also changed my shipping info to show what I charge for packaging materials. I have also tried to address some of the other things you mentioned. Hopefully I am not spamming anymore either.
Here is what I've got now:
##############################
CLOTHING MEASUREMENTS
Remember to allow room for comfort as these are the fabric dimensions and NOT body dimensions.
Please feel free to email me for questions or clarification of measurements prior to bidding.
SHIPPING INFORMATION (includes 50¢ charge for new bubble mailer)
Shipping to US residents:
- Surface Mail, Small Packet rate: $5.15 US (takes about 10-12 business days)
- AirMail, Small Packet rate: $6.65 US (takes about 4-6 business days)
- Regular Parcel Mail with Insurance is more. Please contact me with your address for rates.
Shipping to Canadian and other International residents:
- Please contact me for shipping rate.
Please note:
- My shipping is done via Canada Post on the day after I receive payment.
- I will combine successful bids to lower your shipping cost.
PAYMENT INFORMATION
- I accept Personal Checks, Cashiers' Checks, International Postal and Bank Money Orders, and Well-Concealed Cash, all in US dollars.
- If you live in Canada, I will gladly convert your total to Canadian dollars for you.
- Please have payment to me within 14 days of the end of the auction.
RETURN POLICY
I strive for the most accurate descriptions possible and accept no returns. If the merchandise does not really match my description, please contact me.
Thank you for looking at my auctions and happy bidding!
Please see my other auctions for more beautiful clothing.
############################
Thanks for all your help everybody. I feel much better about my TOS now. If you still see any potential problems here, please let me know!
posted on September 28, 2000 10:23:42 AM
Just an update on my situation with the gal angry about the 3x title. She said she didnt read the description..only the title header. So, I said Sorry...no refund. I didnt make an error, because a bust of 54 IS a 3X. She then emailed back and said I was devious for putting 3X in the title. Huh? Measurements were very clear IN THE DESCRIPTION. So, I am assuming I will get a neg from her. Theres 2 other gals angry with me because they sent payment thru paypal, which clearly states in description AND my confirmation email that I DO NOT accept paypal and now they are VERY upset that Im "refusing their money".
posted on September 28, 2000 11:00:47 AM
Oh Maui! Sorry to hear about that! The way I deal with that kind of thing is somewhat like this:
"I'm afraid I am not set up to receive Paypal payments. I DO, however, accept (insert your terms here). If you could please send payment using one of these methods, I will contact you when your payment has arrived. I look forward to completing this sale with you. And thanks again for bidding!"
Or whatever suits your fancy...
I'm not really sure what to tell you about the 3X girl... I might say that I was sorry that there was a misunderstanding or whatever. And then I MIGHT even offer my auction pic for her to use if she wanted to try selling the item herself. Just a thought!
posted on September 28, 2000 11:48:37 AM
maui - Now I've heard everything! She admits she didn't read the description, BUT you were "devious" in your title???
Just more proof that you can't please 'em all.
We all work and agonize over our TOS, forgetting how few people actually read them. I spell out very clearly in my auctions and EOA emails just what kinds of payment I take - then they email me and ask, as if I've told them nothing.
posted on September 28, 2000 12:56:07 PM
Jozi, I did that...offer the pic if its to be resold. This gal just flat out refuses to listen to reason. This is the last email I got from the 3X lady and my response (in bold): "I assume the vendor knows what they are selling and
if they say 3X why do I need to go further? After all, this is not exactly
Bergdorfs"
"Perhaps you shouldnt shop online, since you dont read what is most important. Stick with Bergdorfs. And Carole Little outfits state SZ 6, and they will fit a size 14 since she makes things roomy. That is WHY I put in MEASUREMENTS. I am weary of this".
Concerning the insisting paypal pusher, I am just going to relist the item, since she refuses to pay any other way, and in a form I dont accept. Nothing else I can do.
posted on September 28, 2000 01:46:14 PM
Maui- That's too bad! But I know exactly what you mean in terms of sizing! I had my mother modelling all of my clothes for my auction pics and she has the measurements of a size 10/12 and she was able to model everything from a size 4 to a 16! And the size 16 was a bit small on her.
So I also am very thorough with my measurements! I don't want anything like your 3X customer to happen to me. That's exactly why I posted my question here because I don't want to get into a situation with a customer wanting to return something on the basis that they didn't read the description, either properly or at all! So you really didn't derail my thread at all. I appreciate being able to communicate with other clothing sellers.
posted on September 28, 2000 07:25:35 PM
Update...the paypal pusher neg'd me. Sale ended yesterday and she neg'd me because I wouldnt take paypal, even though I told her she could send a check or money order. So, just now I did more listings and I put I DONT TAKE PAYPAL smack dab in the middle of the page. Damn, its getting difficult to sell when bidders insist on doing it their way.
Now I have to worry about the 3X gal doing the same.
posted on September 28, 2000 07:58:21 PM
Capriole, I did. Tit for tat. I wasnt planning on negging her at all...was just going to relist if she wouldnt pay by check or money order. I just responded to her last email with the following (my response in bold) and then I saw she neg'd me afterwards:
"<< I am sorry that I miss understood. I guess I assumed all sellers took that mode of payment. I regret having caused you any hardship.
Sincerely, XXXXXXXX >>"
~~~~~
I used to take paypal, but then they said they were no longer offering it free to sellers and they would start charging. So I went back to money orders and personal checks. If you still want this item, then you can have it at your high bid, but you will need to send a check or money order. If you want this item, then let me know, and send payment tomorrow and I have your package ready. I will need your full name and address also. But do let me know, k?
edited to say I edited out some of the response, to protect her identity.
[ edited by mauimoods on Sep 28, 2000 07:59 PM ]
[ edited by mauimoods on Sep 28, 2000 08:00 PM ]
posted on September 29, 2000 01:48:21 AM
Mauimoods,
Check the thread "Int'l Bidders' Disregard to Ship to US Terms"
A seller had an international bidder bid on his "US bids only" auctions, and then left a neg because he wouldn't sell to him.
Since the bidder didn't follow the TOA, the seller appealed to ebay on the grounds that since the bidder never should have bid, and feedback is for transaction related feedback only, he shouldn't have to have the feedback since it wasn't a transaction.