posted on September 29, 2000 12:32:09 PM
I bid on an won an auction on 9/7/00. Paid via paypal minutes after winning (as I usually do). Sellers TOS said paypal payments mean item is shipped same day unless post office is closed. it was 11 am sellers time when I paid.
As of 9/18/00 I notified seller item not received. Included auction#, paypal ID, ebay ID. Had to wait for an e-mail asking for shipping address again.Sent shipping info again.
Got e-mail on 9/19/00 saying seller was sorry and that they were sending new item plus something "special" via priorty mail out to me THAT day. Asked for shipping info AGAIN.
Notified seller on 9/25/00 item not received AGAIN. Seller assured me that 2were shipped..etc..etc. received order on 9/28/00.
Not that I was looking for something extra, there was nothing "special" included, it was i fact shipped on 7/20/00 via reg. mail. and they charged me $4.51 for shipping and them put a .77 stamp on it (was a CD).
Now I ALWAYS leave feedback, I almost always pay via paypal within minutes of auction ending, but I have never had to wait 3 weeks to receive an item.
I'm upset, I don't know if I should leave feedback or not. If I should complain about the inflated shipping charges.
The seller seems to be taking solace in the fact that I will have 2 of these CD's.
posted on September 29, 2000 12:45:07 PM
I don't see how you can complain about the shipping charges since you must have read the terms and bid anyway. Your complaint about slow shipping is valid however.
How about some additional information, such as how much the winning bid was, what is the sellers feedback etc.
posted on September 29, 2000 12:47:12 PM
I know this is not going to be a popular response with some people, but if the auction stated $4.51, and that is what you paid, then the seller did what they said they would do. Did the listing specify the way it would be delivered (Priority Mail, etc.) or did you assume?
posted on September 29, 2000 12:59:16 PM
I would neg 'em in a heartbeat.
It is high time that seller's such as this started being weeded out.
It is NOT too much to expect that a good portion of what a buyer pay's for shipping *actually* goes toward shipping. The seller in this case spent probably all of a buck and a quarter on shipping, including the mailer, and pocketed the other $3.25. That is ridiculous, and should not be tolerated.
You were gouged on shipping, made to wait 3 wks for an item you paid for instantaneously, and lied to. Conduct like this deserves a neg.
posted on September 29, 2000 01:00:54 PM
Boy, that line about the shipping is in TOS so whats the problem?, is getting real old here. If it said in the TOS they were coming to your house to take your first born, would that be ok too? after all it's in the TOS. I am personally making a list of a lot of sellers with their bogus TOS listings and watch carefully so I will not bid on those auctions. A THIEF IS A THIEF IS A THIEF, EVEN IF HE TELLS YOU HE IS A THIEF UP FRONT, HE IS STILL A THIEF!!!
[ edited by rarriffle on Sep 29, 2000 01:03 PM ]
posted on September 29, 2000 01:02:14 PM
I have no problem paying what I was asked to pay. I guess it just disheartens me to see sellers making money off shipping charges.
This was only a $10 item, if they wanted to make $13 they should start at $13.
The seller's feedback is glowing, hundreds of positives, very few neutrals.
I'm more upset because they promised to send the replacment priorty mail..and didn't. They promised something extra for my patience..and didn't.
I even called the post office to make sure I didn't have a new mail carrier. I gave this seller every benefit of every doubt.
they're last e-mail says we shipped item 1st time on XXXX we shipped second item on XXX..so you have 2 on the way for the price of 1. A little ignorant I thought.
posted on September 29, 2000 01:11:40 PM
I told you my response was not going to be real popular.
I guess it just disheartens me to see sellers making money off shipping charges.
The only suggestion I would make (and it doesn't help in this case) is that if the method of shipping is important to you and it isn't specified in the listing, then you should do as you would if you were unclear about the description of the item itself... email the seller. Or find another auction.
As to your other comment...
I'm more upset because they promised to send the replacment priorty mail..and didn't. They promised something extra for my patience..and didn't.
There's no excuse for the seller not following through and doing as they said. You might try emailing them and letting them know that you are disappointed with the transaction- their response (or lack of) might help you make up your mind about what kind of feedback to leave
posted on September 29, 2000 01:59:11 PM
Is this guy getting negged by others? Lousy service is usually an ongoing behavior. It's worth looking at feedback before you bid for this sort of thing.
posted on September 29, 2000 02:39:03 PM
I think there are 2 issues here. The seller's poor service and the feedback/tos thing. This kind of illustrates the stupidity of the eBay feedback system. In my opinion feedback and item description/tos are hand in hand. A guy offers a "new" item and sends you one with 5 ax marks---neg him. He says he'll ship next day air for $15.00 and he sends it 4th class USPO and pockets the money, neg him. But if you buy a tie and your mom hates it, that's no reason for a neg. The first item could well have been lost. Your only basis to neg him is the "something" extra promised, all the rest you agreed to, and changing the terms of the contract AFTER the fact is a no-no. In any case he will just neg you back (another stupidity of the feedback system) and the neg hurts you more than him.
Out of hundreds of FB, I have 2 negs. I won and auction for an item cleary offered with model number and was shipped a much cheaper item. I got a retaliatory neg after not enjoying being robbed. The other one was as a seller when someone bought something from me as a collectible that was not offered as a collectible. I shipped it in its' original box and he was horrified. He decided to keep the item and neg me after I offered to take it back or send him the names of 3 other people who offered higher amounts after the auction closed.
It's why feedback can only be a guide based on percentages and why you should read the offer and ask, ask, ask, if there is any question.
posted on September 29, 2000 03:05:22 PM
Boy, that line about the shipping is in TOS so whats the problem?, is getting real old here.
=========
I agree wholeheartedly! Many of us buy within a few hours or less of the close of an auction. There usually is no way to contact the seller to make certain about shipping details at that late date, and IMO it's downright disingenuous to charge, for example, $3.20 "postage" when the seller knows damned well that to most bidders, that means "priority mail." Ditto with an outrageously high shipping charge (like this one) when you're actually going to spend less than $1 on the actual postage and cost of the envelope or wrapper.
Yes, yes, I KNOW buyers should always ask about these things. Technically, that's the correct thing to do and we shouldn't whine about it if the shipping is not to our liking. But technicalities aside, I think it stinks and I think it's a form of cheating eBay out of its fees AND a way of cheating the buyer as well.
As a seller, I never do this. If I can't quote exact charges (and I usually can), I give the method of shipping at the very least, and give the weight of the item so that the buyer can calculate at least a ballpark figure for shipping. I've never yet had to add a handling charge, but if I ever do, you can bet that it will be called out separately.
From reading the threads here, it seems to me that far too many sellers are making their money on excessive "handling fees" and misleading postage charges, and this does nothing but harm ALL sellers, by making buyers even more wary about the auction process. Really, just because it's technically acceptable doesn't make it right, and telling buyers not to bid if they don't like the TOS is also not a good answer to the problem.
I'd like to see sellers be more exact when stating shipping, especially for smaller, more common items like books, DVDs, etc., where it is easy to figure exact charges. Then, if a seller states he is sending that CD first class postage but is charging you $3.20 for the privilege, you know you are getting ripped off and you don't have to bid.
posted on September 29, 2000 04:07:42 PM
Thank you sonsie. If a seller wants to make extra money in shipping charges let him make that clear. $5.00 handling charge plus $.77 shipping. Then if I want to bid I know what I'm paying for. That I couldn't argue with.
posted on September 29, 2000 05:19:19 PM
"reading the threads here" does not give you an accurate depiction of what goes on with eBay buyers and sellers. Beware of thinking that AW posters are representative of the norm. They are self-selected, for one thing, which means they made the decision to come here and post about it. They are also largely unverified, meaning their story cannot be double-checked usually. All humans have the tendency to cast a favorable light on their own actions.
I believe people should be responsible for their own actions. If you have an unhappy experience with a seller, don't buy from him again.
Here's an absolutely-not-representative experience of mine: I have apparently attracted a bidder who likes to search out low-minimum sellers, bid and win a bunch of their auctions, then neg them on each and every auction when they don't kowtow to him. *And he never even pays for the items, just negs them and runs.* Fun game, huh? If I thought eBay bidders were like that, I'd pack it in and go home. (Wait. I AM home.)
posted on September 29, 2000 05:33:20 PM
Bettylou, I agree that everybody should take responsibility for his or her actions. So why is it okay, apparently, for sellers to knowingly misrepresent their shipping methods to get a little extra on each auction, but it's not okay to complain about it?
I take responsibility by paying the freight, even if it ends up to be an out-and-out misrepresentation (i.e., a 77-cent stamp instead of priority mail). But I write to the seller to let him or her know I think the charge is out of line for what I got, and I wish more people would do that. I'm not certain this deserves a negative feedback, since technically the seller did fulfill his or her terms. But it stinks, and I think most people would agree, particularly if the shipping charge is chosen to mimic another rate entirely (such as charging $3.20 when you know this is a priority mail rate, but sending the item first class for under a buck).
If I have time before the auction ends, I always write to inquire about unclear shipping terms. And, unless I'm absolutely desperate for something, I won't bid at all unless I get a reasonable explanation. But why should buyers have to BEGIN by mistrusting the terms? It's quite easy, in most cases, for sellers to provide enough information in their TOS so buyers can at least estimate a ballpark figure. When they don't do this, I may assume they are newbies...or I may assume that they have some good reason for being unclear.
I realize that the auction process can't be compared straight across to any other retail or mail order transaction, but in the case of shipping charges, sellers can certainly be more straightforward. Do you have to call or write a mail order firm to get information on their shipping charges and methods? I never have...they are delineated quite clearly on the order blank. Sellers on eBay can do the same thing in most cases. When they don't, it raises a red flag.
posted on September 29, 2000 05:48:51 PM
I'm with ya 100%, Sonsie.
I'm beginning to sound like a broken record to myself, but I'll say it again anyway. Sellers who have excessive handling charges ARE shifting some of their revenues into handling charges -- a scam not only on the buyer, but one that ebay frowns upon as well. Ebay calls it Fee Avoidance.
So, in addition to your consideration of whether or not you should neg him (I'll leave that up to you), you might want to consider turning him in to SafeHarbor. Repeatedly.
Don't know for sure what they'd do about it -- they seem more interested in members spamming other members than anything else (maybe that's easy enough they can actually do something about it), but I do know their ears perk up on the issue of the money due them.
posted on September 29, 2000 06:01:37 PM
Complain all ya like, Sonsie. No one can stop you. And I wouldn't want to.
"excessive handling charges", schmexcessive handling charges. Seems to me that if YOU (whoever YOU is) is going to take it upon yorself to decide a handling or shipping charge is excessive, YOU can also take it upon yourself to pass that auction right on by.
Oh, I know. Everyone stops whining long enough to agree that that makes sense...then starts right back in.
Really, if this is such an awful problem, I wonder that more people don't go back to shopping retail.
posted on September 29, 2000 07:47:24 PM
Well, I took your suggestions (some anyway) and sent the seller another e-mail expressing my concerns. Here's the copy of the e-mail:
Seller,
Received the CD today. Thank you, apparently the post office did take
their sweet time delivering it.
I must say however, I am a little disapointed with your shipping
charges...what did I pay like $4.50 or something for shipping, and you put a
77 cent stamp on it, what'd the bubble mailer cost, another 50 cents?
I have included below a copy of the e-mail you sent me on 9/19/00.
Please re-read this and tell me if you find anything different from
what you said you were going to do and what actually happened?
I'll get you a replacement in the system...to go out...
will you email all your shipping information again
in case we got it wrong last time...don't want to get it wrong again,
I'll send it prioity mail and add a little bonus item for your troubles as
well as the replacement CD... : )
Best Wishes,
XXXXXX
I have removed anyway to locate the exact auction or seller, I'll see what their responce is before posting feedback, but I will mention shipping charges in whatever feedback I leave.
posted on September 29, 2000 08:34:25 PM
Let me begin by saying that my response is going to unpopular with most of the people in this thread, who do not own/run their own business.
If a shipping/handling charge is clearly stated, then the bidder accepts and agrees to that charge the second that he bids on the item. If he didn't agree then he wouldn't bid, now would he. As for charging $4.00 or whatever to mail a 77 cent envelope, there are a lot of other charges/costs involved, that is what handling covers.
The main cost is YOUR TIME !! Now I have posted on these types of threads before and have had people say that they don't charge for their time, because it's free time, or part of selling. In those cases I have offered to hire them for what they have already stated that their time is worth.
The aguments about shipping/handling charges on these threads always breaks down to people who own businesses in one group, and people who sell on ebay as a pastime into another group.
Just my humble opinion.
posted on September 29, 2000 08:47:48 PM
I am compensated just fine for my time, on PROFITS alone. Profits that come from high bids, not from gouging on shipping.
I think it comes down to two groups, too. Folks who sell desireable items, which bring top dollar, eliminating the need to gouge on shipping, and folks who sell mediocre "stuff," who have to pad their shipping to compensate for low bid amounts.
And before anyone get's their undies in a bunch, I am talking about grossly inflated shipping charges, like we have seen from the seller who is the topic of this thread; not people who tack on a buck for bubble wrap.
posted on September 29, 2000 08:57:05 PM
Julesy,
I must disagree with you, it has nothing to do with high quality merchandise vs. mediocre stuff. It has to do with what the "actual cost of shipping is, and is not and never will be the cost of what is on the padded envelope.
My standard shipping charge is $3.00. Items carrying that shipping/packaging costs, (and yes this is how I list it, as packaging, not handling.) Cover tape, bubble wrap, staples, a padded mailer, a good quality box to pretect the merchandise inside the mailer, gas to and from the post office, etc. These are all legitimate businesses costs, that all businesses must pass on, or they will go out of business, but as I stated before,,,
The aguments about shipping/handling charges on these threads always breaks down to people who own businesses in one group (and who want to continue in business), and people who sell on ebay as a pastime, with not much regard for extra expenses, into another group. It has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of eithers merchandise.
posted on September 29, 2000 09:01:32 PM
You bid, you've accepted the terms of the contract. Think the shipping is out of line? DON'T BID!!
Leave this seller a neg? For what? His auction stated the charge to get your item to you was $4.51...he charged you $4.51. If it is important to you that the majority of the shipping charge be equal to the postage, ask! But your looking at "going, going, gone" and there is no time? Well then bite the bullet and KEEP YOUR FINGERS OFF THE KEY BOARD! Don't bid.
Neg him because the post office lost the first one sent and he sent out a replacement? Oh, I know..neg him because he didn't include a "goody" or send it priority like he said he would. Come on..he sent out a new one quickly..he asked to verify your mailing address in case he had sent the first one to a wrong address...sounds to me like he was trying to be a good seller...but you want to crucify him.
You said he has glowing feedback..very few neutral...hundreds of positives (sounds like there are no negs)...doesn't sound like the seller from hell to me. You neg him and your neg is going to look out of place in all that glowing feedback...might make other bidders think YOU were the PITA in this transaction, not him.
Save your negs and negative neutral for sellers who deserve it..this guy doesn't deserve it.
posted on September 29, 2000 09:03:46 PM
I have mixed feelings about handling charges because if I order something from a mail order house then I know I am NOT going to see that price on the package.
So as a bidder I can eat some peoples shipping costs without having an aneurism if the value to me is good.
I guess I am not altogether big enough of a player to have a flat fee. So why get hassled? I just try to make it back in profit. One guy did email me prior to my auction and made sure I was shipping it priority, even though it was clear (maybe not clear enough! Need to re-eval). So I sense he must have been burned before.
I still don't get why sellers bait and switch with that priority price. IF you want a fee, sure, just don't lie about it. Be brave about your fee! LOL
posted on September 29, 2000 09:13:58 PM
So let's see. Some of the arguments here are: I would have asked, but I was too busy. I knew the shipping was excessive and bid BUT IT JUST ISN'T RIGHT DADGUMMIT!!! The fact still remains you agree to something and then blame the other party for agreeing.
I always think in terms of the cost to acquire something. If I bought a mint Nikon for $1.00 + $800 shipping, I wouldn't complain that this was a ripoff compared to $800 + $1.00 shipping. I always have a total in mind and bid with the stated shipping in mind.
Remember we are talking about STATED terms, not a surprise whammy later. As to "too busy" to inquire, that is just silly and perhaps you should treat the outcome as frivolously as the buying.
Tony
posted on September 29, 2000 09:16:09 PMsoldbyj --
Without knowing what you sell, I couldn't know if the $3 you charge is inflated or not. Paying for supplies by tacking on a buck is perhaps reasonable, though I tend to wonder if buyer's will soon ask for rebates because of the time & expense it takes to make payment (ie. stamp, envelope, money order expense, trip to the mailbox, gas to the PO). Fair is fair, right?
Whether I conduct a business or "pasttime" on ebay is of no consequence; I still see no reason to overcharge and mislead customers.
posted on September 29, 2000 09:21:47 PM
Give him a chance to explain why he didn't send it Priority after he said he would and if he does not offer to come to an agreement go ahead and give him a neutral or a negative. After all, that's what the feedback system is for...to express your satisfaction of the seller. Even if you did agree to the EOA terms by bidding, he did not meet his end of the agreement which was amended by him in a later email.
posted on September 29, 2000 09:31:38 PM
Julesy,
I do not "overcharge or mislead customers."
My shipping/packaging charges are clearly stated as a "fixed " charge in my tos. To imply that this is my business practice, (over charging and MISleading customers) just demeans this discussion. As for equating the $3.00 charge with what I sell, or anyone sells is ludicrous. A $3.00 shipping/handling/packing/time charge in todays market is a drop in the bucket, and also remember it is always clearly stated in my TOS !
For the sake of discussion I sell better jewlery, but as I have said, the product is irrelevant.
As to your idea that fair is fair, when you go to the mall, do you expect the mall to reimburse you for your time and gas to get there? Or are you a willing customer, as are those who buy on Ebay?
< Whether I conduct a business or "pasttime" on ebay is of no consequence; I still see no reason to overcharge and mislead customers. > I was comparing the two different opinions to the way the two groups view this subject, not meaning to personally insult either side. It just seems to hard for most to understand anothers position, unless they have walked in their shoes, or understand the basic princples of running a business. Example, alot of people complain about being charged $10.00 for an aspirin in a hospital, but never question why they aren't charged for the laundry of meals. But by repeating the words overcharge & misleading only insults people, who have a different perspective
