posted on October 9, 2000 09:47:25 PM new
Hi everyone,
Well, PayPal finally did it to me.
I'm an active powerseller who has a personal account with Paypal for more than a year. My account was restricted a week ago and, after several emails without a human reply from Paypal customer service nor appeals dept, I was finally given a reply by asking paypaldamon to redirect the problem. I received an email from Paypal on 10/8, stating that my account was restricted due to a charge back (pasted below).
> Dear XXX,
> Thank you for contacting PayPal.
> I show a charge back issued to your account on August XX for
> $XX.00. In addition to this restriction, your account could have
> been restricted for any number of additional reasons.
> To lift this restriction, you must add and verify a bank account
> to your PayPal account.
>
I then immediately wrote back to Paypal since I already have a "verified" bank account w/ Paypal and I have "never" added funds into my PayPal account through my credit card nor bank account. All I have ever done was receiving money from buyer and electronically deposit it into my bank account. I didn't see why there could be a "charge back" without any "charge".
Today (10/9), I received another email from Paypal, stating that my account has been closed for "violations of terms of use".
>Dear PayPal User,
>
> In order to protect all X.com customers and the quality of our
> service, we take violations of our Terms of Use very seriously.
> Following an investigation, this account has been permanently
> closed due to violations of our Terms of Use. This decision may
> not be appealed.
> Violations of our Terms of Use that could constitute criminal
> conduct may be reported to law enforcement authorities.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> PayPal Customer Service
> PayPal -- A Service of X.com
I was stunned and immediately called Paypal customer service(877-672-9725). The representative told me that there is nothing she can do and I have to keep on contacting the appeals dept. I also confirmed my "verified" bank account status with her.
As of now I can still access my account through Paypal's website but it is still showing up as "restricted". I have more than a thousand dollars in my Paypal account now and auction payments are still coming in daily. I'm trying to print out my entire account history in case they suddenly terminate my access to my account.
Now I can only hope(or prey) that Paypal can straighten things up as soon as possible.
This is not the first time Paypal has done this to me. Six months ago my account was also restricted for 4 days due to a internal error made by Paypal. Two mitakes in a row has proven to be way too much.
[ edited by kimochi on Oct 9, 2000 09:50 PM ]
posted on October 9, 2000 10:15:57 PM new
Check the PayPal forum here at AW- you'll feel right at home there. This is apparently happening to lots of folks- here's one thread where the PayPal victim is considering legal action:
For those who haven't had a problem with PayPal, might be best to keep your balance low. You might also want to keep the balance low in any checking account they have listed due to verification- there are a couple horror stories where PayPal apparently managed to get funds out of users checking accounts without their permission.
posted on October 9, 2000 10:56:28 PM newThis is just beautiful!
Every time I tell Paypal users they're being foolish by giving Paypal so much access to their money, they scoff!
As I've said before, some people are intellectually restricted from understanding the potential problems they may ultimately face with this website---a website that is acting as if it is a bank. You would think people would be smarter.
Some people are just careless with their money and throw caution to the wind. I can't wait to see these Paypal decipals faces AFTER they get screwed too!
It's the classic "it won't happen to me" syndrome.
posted on October 10, 2000 06:25:39 AM new
Keep us up on what is happening here I would be interested in knowing. Really does seem here of a late that paypal is pulling a lot of scuzzie, backhanded moves and trying to make the sellers look like the bad guys.
posted on October 10, 2000 06:42:45 AM new
I certainly don't mean to sound indifferent to your plight (cause I'm not!), but what were you, a PowerSeller, doing with a personal account?
Some of us with barely a coupla hundred a month going thru PayPal (and a good bit of that postage since I sell heavy stuff!) have been severely chastised here for not upgrading. (Hah! I not only didn't upgrade, I quit PayPal -- and the fees were the least of it. Guess you've quit too, eh?)
Do you have any idea what TOS you might have violated, or APPREARED to have violated to get in this position?
No matter what evil <g> you perpetrated, it'd sure be nice to get some answers, wouldn't it?
posted on October 10, 2000 11:03:16 AM new
Hi,
Although Paypal said that business users "have" to upgrade to the business account, I don't know if I'm in violation of their terms of use for not doing so. I addition, even if this is a violation, I'm not sure if it's sever enough to hold or potentially take my money (more than a grand in this case) away.
Paypaldamon has stated that Paypal does "not" restrict nor even close accounts that are not upgraded.
posted on October 10, 2000 11:28:40 AM new
said that business users "have" to upgrade to the business account, I don't know if I'm in violation of their terms of use for not doing so. I addition, even if this is a violation, I'm not sure if it's sever enough to hold or potentially take my money (more than a grand in this case) away.
>>
If they closed you account for this reason they cannot take you money. That would be against the law. Not only could you file in small claims court you could file in criminal court if you would wish.
If I were you it may be worth a few bucks just to see what a lawyer has to say. Not that you want to go to court and all that for 1,000 it isn't worth it. Sometimes just a letter does the trick. They no they can play with you and other little people because their hands are usually tied. If they don't resolve it soon, you may want to think about other measures.
posted on October 10, 2000 11:38:36 AM new
The way I understood it when I read the new regulations, if a person received more than $500 in CC payments in a 6 month period the seller would be barred from receiving any more CC payments til they upgraded. It didn't say anything about freezing accounts -- in fact, it said the seller could still receive non-CC payments.
Someone will correct me if I read that wrong, I'm sure.
I have not upgraded because I receive so little money through PayPal these days -- at the bidders choice, not mine. I still have the logo on my auctions.
However, I agree with those who say that even if it is a personal account PayPal has no legal standing to freeze money in the account. If our BANKS did that, we would be at the lawyers as fast as we could drive there, but for some reason most don't feel it's an actionable offense when PayPal does it.
posted on October 10, 2000 11:53:28 AM new
Ditto what zazzi said to stuntman.
This is strictly a personal opinion: until all Online Payment sites agree on a uniform procedure if ever, I have opted to no longer accept any credit cards...and have done better without them...I do not list much, but have done well without online payment...
******************** Shosh
posted on October 10, 2000 11:57:59 AM new
I wondered about the $500 limit, also, but that's not set to go into effect until Oct. 16. This is another case where I'm sure there's a lot more going on that we've been told, so I'm not even tempted to comment further. (A Powerseller using a personal account for business? Sheesh!!! No tears of sympathy here. You get what you pay for. )
posted on October 10, 2000 12:06:13 PM newA Powerseller using a personal account for business? Sheesh!!! No tears of sympathy here. You get what you pay for.
That seems a bit harsh- I could understand closing an account due to a Terms of Use violation (is a powerseller using a personal account actually a violation?), but that in no way excuses PayPal for holding hostage more than a thousand dollars that does not belong to them.
posted on October 10, 2000 01:03:14 PM new
kimochi
You've already established that the account was restricted due to a charge back. I just speculated that durring the investigation they discovered that you were a business person using a personal account (Technically, a violation of their TOS). Unless they have proved that you are guilty of non-delivery they would have no other reason to close your account. Would they?
At any rate it is pure speculation.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Oct 10, 2000 04:27 PM ]
posted on October 10, 2000 01:53:38 PM new
paypaldamon,
I've just forwarded my infomation to you. Thanks again for your help.
pickersangel,
I didn't upgrade my account because I didn't need the extra features of the business account. In addition, although Paypal did stated that all business sellers have to upgrade, I didn't find anywhere in their website stating the consequence for not doing the upgrade. If I knew that Paypal would restrict or even close my account for not upgrading, I would have done it already. Anyhow, now that my account has already been restricted, I don't even think I can upgrade at this point (I was about to upgrade before 10/16 since the new rule will affect my sale).
I really don't mind paying the fee for the business account. I just thought that why do I have to pay for something when I can get it for free.
posted on October 10, 2000 01:56:50 PM new
PPD has stated in another forum:
accounts are restricted at a cumulative of 250.00.
I know that doesn't answer this particular problem.. but it is something to think about when an account is frozen in the first place.
edited to add:
Maybe PP should send notification to a user when there's any type of complaint or anything, that would effect their account ~ so that way, if someone complained to PP about a $25 transaction, the user who's been complained about will realize and not be caught by surprise when their account reaches that 250 number and the account gets frozen. Or, maybe PP does and it's something we've never heard in any of the stories.
Just a suggestion.. and my .02
[ edited by rosiebud on Oct 10, 2000 01:59 PM ]
posted on October 11, 2000 02:48:24 PM new
I received an email from Paypal today:
>Dear XXX,
>Your PayPal account is currently under
>investigation for
>fraudulent activities. We have received
>your appeal and we are
>giving it our full consideration. You will
>be notified of the
>status of your account when we have
>completed our investigation.
>
>Sincerely,
>PayPal Account Review Department
I guess they are considering the "chargeback" back in August a "fraudulent activity" (which I never performed the charge).
Let just hope that the investigation doesn't take a month to complete.
[ edited by kimochi on Oct 11, 2000 02:49 PM ]
posted on October 19, 2000 12:11:56 PM new
jimhaber,
Your posts are dominating the forums and I'm issuing you an informal warning. If you continue, you will be placing your posting privileges in jeopardy.
In addition to the informal warning issued above, and considering that there are several other PayPal threads currently open in the eBay Outlook, we are locking this one.
If you would like to continue discussing PayPal, please either post to the current open PayPal threads in the eBay Outlook, or open a new thread in our Partner Services forum:
)