valerie47
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:25:23 PM
Ok, I upgraded my Paypal account. Now I see for every payment I receive for under $15 I get charged a 25¢ fee.
My problem is this:
(#1) Customer #1. Lives in NY and I have to collect sales tax for all sales sent to NY. He knows this ahead of time, and only sends the bid amount. I ask him again for the sales tax. He paypals me the sales tax of like 68¢. Since he Paypaled it to me I get charged 25¢ the first time and again the 2nd time for his 68¢, so now I'm short the sales tax and have to "eat" the tax.
(#2) Customer #2. Sends Paypal payment of $10 and forgets to send $3.20 shipping. I email her and tell her she forgot to include shipping. She Paypals me the extra $3.20 for shipping, and again, I get charged 25¢ for her sending me the first payment, and again for the $3.20 and now I have to "eat" part of the shipping.
(#3) Customer #3. Sends Paypal payment of $13.19 and her total was supposed to be $15.00 with shipping. I email her and ask her to send the remainder that she owes me. I will now get charged 25¢ for her initial payment and again for her second payment. (Which should have been all in one payment).
Yes, this ALL happened today. My question is.... since I already had to pay my Paypal fees the FIRST time, do you think it's unfair to ask the customers to pay the second paypal fee (per transaction) since all 3 problems were the customer's fault?
I'm not actually talking about these 3 customers - I already "ate" the difference on these without saying anything to my customers. My question is for the future - should I make a statement to the effect that I will only pay the first Paypal fee per transaction? It doesn't seem fair for me to have to pay more than 1 fee per transaction for customer's screw-ups!
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
[ edited by valerie47 on Oct 11, 2000 06:28 PM ]
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macandjan
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:48:13 PM
I would be more upset about the time involved in correcting all these. What in the world are you selling that the customers are all so cheap they nickel and dime you to death?
If this is normal I would put in my TOS that if full payment invoiced is not recieved additional charges will be added for the cost of collection before shipping.
Edited to add- Now that I have see PP charges 25¢ PLUS 1.9% of the FULL amount for $15.01 I will no longer accept PP for anything from $15.00 to $25.00.
[ edited by macandjan on Oct 11, 2000 06:50 PM ]
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valerie47
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:51:27 PM
Believe me, I am not a happy camper today! 
I sell clothing and for some reason they are just not comprehending lately! It is very time consuming, and irritating!
I think I may take your advice and say something like that in my TOS.. I've been trying to figure out if (1) it's even a good idea and (2) how to word it..
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
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Islander
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:53:03 PM
In your situation, the first thing I'd do is review my "amount due" letter (congratulatory letter, whatever) and make sure it states very clearly, maybe on a separate line:
"The Total Amount Due for this purchase is $x.xx" Please send this amound in full.
"You may pay by blah, blah, blah"
I'd make sure that my e-mail to them stated the full amount due, without leaving anything for them to figure out. If you find out after the fact that they're from your state and they didn't pay the sales tax, then IMHO it's OK to bill them for sales tax plus the fee from PP.
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valerie47
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posted on October 11, 2000 06:58:37 PM
Islander:
My emails DO state the EXACT amount they owe me. How they can "forget" to include shipping is beyond me!
The only thing they would have to figure out is sales tax if they live in NY - but that is ALSO in my email - right above the total!
I just heard back from my Customer #3. All my auctions have a shipping chart for each article of clothing. She said "I don't think $5.00 is what I should have to pay for shipping. You can ship it for $3.20." That's why she only sent me $3.20 for shipping! I state "XXXXXXX - $5.00 shipping" in my shipping chart. Sometimes it goes over $5 and I just pay the difference - sometimes it ships for less. I have found a happy medium and NO ONE has ever complained about my shipping chart. It's very reasonable! She now says "I expect the package to say $5 on it for shipping".
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
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valerie47
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posted on October 11, 2000 07:05:23 PM
CUSTOMER #4!!
ANOTHER ONE.... Customer #4 - Just sent me the amount and DID NOT include sales tax.
I just asked her to forward me the sales tax and include 25¢ Paypal fee.
This is unbelievable.
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
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vargas
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posted on October 11, 2000 07:31:07 PM
Hi valerie47
Have you considered asking these folks to pay the balance by Billpoint electronic check?
The electronic checks are free and you can send an invoice for the amount due that can be paid ONLY by electronic check.
It might work as a stopgap until you find new TOS wording that works.
Good luck.
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on October 11, 2000 07:37:27 PM
Recommendation: Use ExchangePath.
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macandjan
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posted on October 11, 2000 07:40:12 PM
I am probably going to bring the house down on my ears for this ...but it is true.
I sell tools so I almost always sell to men. The only times I have ever had someone want to change the terms after the deal was done has always been a woman. I know women are better communicaters than men, but they do not all seem to recognize a point at which a contract is formed and a deal sealed.
I say that with great reluctance because even as a boy I always would rather be with the women in the kitchen talking about something that mattered than watching mindless football with the men. I prefer their company and have never had trouble working for a woman. Perhaps it is a taught thing.
I can remember my Dad always very formally shook hands on a deal to show an agreement was reached. Do little girls see their Moms do that?
[ edited by macandjan on Oct 11, 2000 07:44 PM ]
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labbie1
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posted on October 11, 2000 07:46:01 PM
macandjan--Naw, Mom's hug! 
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smw
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posted on October 11, 2000 07:50:19 PM
It is a genetic female imperative.
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labbie1
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posted on October 11, 2000 07:51:49 PM
But after changing their minds, women do hug to clinch the deal.
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smw
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posted on October 11, 2000 07:56:29 PM
Indeed, hugs are required. It is the handshake part that is the problem.
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macandjan
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posted on October 11, 2000 08:16:30 PM
Next time I sell a used car to a guy I will try that.
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Glenda
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posted on October 11, 2000 08:25:46 PM
Valerie, maybe the shipping amount or total is getting "lost" in a long invoice? Would you be willing to post your standard invoice? Perhaps we could make some suggestions to the wording etc. that would help prevent more of this occurring?
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valerie47
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posted on October 11, 2000 08:29:25 PM
Their total amount is at the top, bold-faced and in red. There's NO way they can miss it.
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
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macandjan
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posted on October 11, 2000 08:41:39 PM
I guess it does matter a lot who you sell to and what you sell, and hard to figure out. I got some bicycle locks this summer at a really good price and tried selling them on eBay. I was astonished to find that HALF of my winners were deadbeats.
Why? I always thought well of cyclists as a group having good sensible values. None of them got bid way up either - they were all down around half retail. I would have expected half deadbeats if I were selling sex toys or BANNED ON EBAY!!!CD's - but bicycle
locks?
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UpInTheHills
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posted on October 11, 2000 08:48:21 PM
If you want to put something about the additional paypal fee being paid my the bidder, you might want to put it in your EOA rather than in your TOS.
Whenever I start seeing stuff about what will happen to me if I don't do it the sellers way, I hit the back key.
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midnightdesigns
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posted on October 12, 2000 12:16:37 AM
Valerie,
I would do two things. State in your auction in *big bold bright red* letters: SHIPPING FEES ARE NON-NEGOTIABLE..Then, Somewhere in there say, if you use paypal, and do not send the final amount due in full, you will be charged a .25 cent paypal processing fee for the remainder of the amount due...Or something similar to that effect. Can't believe people are doing that to you..
J.
[email protected]
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=midnightdesigns
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valerie47
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posted on October 12, 2000 03:38:54 PM
Thank you all for your advice! I will definitely be adding the 25¢ fee in my TOS for those who don't send the correct amount!
I just had my 5TH customer in 2 days that did this to me! His total was $17.00 and he only paypaled me $16.00! I just asked him to Paypal me $1.25 - and I explained the 25¢ was because Paypal was going to charge me that for accepting his $1.00 payment.
This is rediculous!
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Islander
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posted on October 15, 2000 01:40:05 PM
Jeez Looweeze -- you've really run into some clueless bidders! Really irritating when people bid and then, after the auction has closed, try to get out of the TOS.
Not sure I'd get too carried away with red print or strident statements in EOA notice -- maybe this is a temporary star-alignment-influenced phenomenon or something. Hope it ends soon!
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CL2CUTE
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posted on October 15, 2000 02:05:23 PM
The best thing to do is include in your starting bid the extra money you are paying for paypal, billpoint and such. I've been doing this for quite a while and works fine. If you had thought of starting an auction at $3.00 make it $4.00 this way it covers your listing fee, your paypal fee, etc. and you're covered from loosing anything.
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CL2CUTE
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posted on October 15, 2000 02:11:12 PM
I just heard back from my Customer #3. All my auctions have a shipping chart for each article of clothing. She said "I don't think $5.00 is what I should have to pay for shipping. You can ship it for $3.20." That's why she only sent me $3.20 for shipping! I state "XXXXXXX - $5.00 shipping" in my shipping chart. Sometimes it goes over $5 and I just pay the difference - sometimes it ships for less. I have found a happy medium and NO ONE has ever complained about my shipping chart. It's very reasonable! She now says "I expect the package to say $5 on it for shipping".
*****************
Tell her to kiss your horses ass and return her money via PAYPAL and cancel your auction with her. (She'll get charged for reciving a paypal payment LOL) Than request a final value fee from eBay stating that she didn't agree to your terms though they were plainly stated in your ad. Let her know also that you are contacting eBay to request final value fee and reason you are doing it and also instruct her not to bid on your auction anymore. $3.20 doesn't even cover for insurance...... Sure hope you insure your items .....
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coyote0
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posted on October 15, 2000 02:13:40 PM
I had a similar thing happen yesterday. Someone paid me $90.99 by PayPal and I was charged $1.98 for the transaction and then they accidentally paid me again and requested the money back! So I got charged another $1.98 and I sent the customer back the $90.99 and I'm out $3.96 for using PayPal! I should have taken the $1.98 out of their refunded oversite, but I want this person to be a repeat customer so I did not chance it.
ATTENTION PAYPAL USERS:
DO NOT CLICK SEND MONEY TWICE IN A ROW BY ACCIDENT! IT WILL SEND IT TWICE IN THE ONE TRANSACTION!
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valerie47
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posted on October 15, 2000 02:22:48 PM
CL2CUTE:
LOL ~ Love that response! I'd love to say that to her but don't really like getting nasty with the customers. (even though sometimes they deserve it!) She ended up paying the extra shipping and I shipped it out the next day - am waiting to hear back from her to see if she says anything about ths shipping charge (which was clearly stated in my auction).
I sell non-breakable items and give my customers the option of getting insurance (at their cost). Most of them opt for no insurance. I haven't had a lost or damaged item in over a year. (Although I've had 2 priority packages that took a month to get to my customers!)
Coyote0: I would have taken out the extra Paypal charge - and your customer should have been understanding - it's not fair for you to have to pay the extra fee for their mistake...JMO
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
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radh
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posted on October 15, 2000 02:22:56 PM
I luv BILLPOINT invoices, just luv 'em!
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valerie47
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posted on October 15, 2000 02:27:47 PM
I would like Billpoint a lot more if AW had an option where we could enter the "pay now" information for Billpoint so we wouldn't have to send an invoice.... I use Auction Manager Pro and it doesn't have that option.
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
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labbie1
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posted on October 15, 2000 02:34:20 PM
You know, after reading about the cost of these buyer's boo boos, I am thinking that it would be a really good thing if PayPal would implement a similar option that PayDirect gives sellers.
You have the option to "accept", "refuse" or "accept later" when you receive a payment.
If PP did that, you could refuse the payment if the amount was wrong and let the buyer try again until they get it right without costing you each time.
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valerie47
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posted on October 15, 2000 02:37:40 PM
labbie:
That would be a GREAT idea! Would love to see them implement something like that!
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
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SilkMoth
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posted on October 15, 2000 02:38:39 PM
Valerie47: Someone asked if your amount due could be lost in a long email, and you replied: "Their total amount is at the top, bold-faced and in red."
That could be the problem in itself. On some older or very simple email programs, a message with font changes, bolding, italicizing, or other enhancements is buried in a sea of HTML code, much like trying to read the source code for a web page. Your buyers simply may not be able to extricate the information from the enhancement code -- and it will all print out in plain text with the codes intact.
"<P><CENTER><FONT SIZE="+1">Your
total amount due is </FONT><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="+1">$14.37.</FONT><FONT
SIZE="+1"></FONT></CENTER></P>
<P><CENTER><FONT SIZE="+1">If you are a resident of New York,
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="+1">add $x.xx</FONT><FONT SIZE="+1">
for tax.</FONT></CENTER>"
Like this...
--------
not SilkMoth anywhere but here
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