macandjan
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posted on October 17, 2000 06:21:33 PM
My new auctions are going to have some disclaimer about down time. Auction voided if
system is down during last 2 hours of schedualed auction time? What wording do you suggest? Put your heads together boys and girls...
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dman3
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posted on October 17, 2000 07:13:41 PM
well you might as well take your time compose this down time disclaimer.
Ebay was uip and running at least partly about 20 mins now I cant get no where there again.
WWW.dman-n-company.com
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Joanne
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posted on October 17, 2000 07:17:28 PM
I don't quite understand eBay's "functionality". I can't get to my seller list, but I can get to My eBay. I can also search by title and view the individual auctions. And someone got in within the last 10 minutes of one of my auctions to bid... unfortunately it still ended at 50% of what the identical item went for about 4-6 weeks ago.
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acooze
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posted on October 17, 2000 07:18:09 PM
I say keep it simple --
Seller reserves the right not to sell should auction be affected by an unexpected eBay outage.
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kellyb1
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posted on October 17, 2000 07:28:06 PM
While I would love to put that in my auctions, it goes directly against ebay rules. Since ebay has outlined in their policy that ebay must be down for 2 hours (where people can't bid) before they will extend auctions, as far as ebay is concerned, once an auction closes, if the reserve is met, the seller is obligated to sell the item.
While we can add requirments, we can't change ebay's policy. If a person sees your TOS, all they have to do is send an email to safeharbor stating that your auction seems to violate ebay policy.
I have seen this with auctions that don't list a reserve, but then state in the auction, "There is a reserve of xxx." Ebay usually gives the seller a warning. Of course, if the seller has had other warnings, it can mean suspension.
Kelly
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thedewey
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posted on October 17, 2000 07:30:39 PM
But wouldn't eBay's rules override a disclaimer like that? After all, if you refused to sell an item that a bidder officially won, the bidder could still neg you. So I'm not sure what protection a disclaimer would be ...
IMO, it would be better to either use a reserve or a higher starting price that you're comfortable with ... or accept the risk of possible downtime.
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furkidmom
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posted on October 17, 2000 07:32:44 PM
Does that also apply about the reserve if there isn't a reserve on the auction? The last 10 minutes of an auction are many times crucial to the outcome of a higher price.
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capotasto
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posted on October 17, 2000 07:33:39 PM
kellyb, ebay has taken the position that they don't run auctions, that they aren't an auctioneer, and that they are just a venue. So they have no right to prevent you from running your auction the way you see fit.
I have seen auction TOS that says something like ACOOZ said. ebay can do what it wants, but that doesn't make it right and could get them into another lawsuit -- this time with sellers.
Vinnie
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kellyb1
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posted on October 17, 2000 07:43:26 PM
Cap,
While I am not saying what Ebay is doing is right, it is there site. They set the rules, and if the seller re-writes them, they face being sanctioned from ebay.
You are not only talking about Ebay rules, but State and Federal laws. In my state once an auction has ended, it is a contract. If the seller refuses to sell the item, they can face civil and criminal charges being filed. The Internet Fraud Complaint Center has really been cracking down on sellers who do not complete transactions.
Bidder's who know this goes against ebay policy may decide to bid and then press the seller to sell, or turn the seller in for fraud to Ebay and the IFCC.
Kelly
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on October 17, 2000 07:55:27 PM
You are not only talking about Ebay rules, but State and Federal laws. In my state once an auction has ended, it is a contract. If the seller refuses to sell the item, they can face civil and criminal charges being filed.
If eBay goes down before the auction's official "end" time, the auction hasn't ended. At least IMO a seller could argue that.
It's eBay that sets the ending time for an auction, not the seller. If an auction is scheduled by eBay to end on Saturday evening at 6pm but ebay goes down at 4:30 and stays down until 7, the auction didn't make it to the official end.
As far as criminal charges are concerned: nope. Breach of contract is ALWAYS a civil matter, not criminal. The only recourse is possible monetary damages in a civil lawsuit.
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macandjan
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posted on October 17, 2000 08:00:49 PM
I'm not sure they could make the rules stick. If you want to compare--
What if in a live auction the auctioneer fell over dead of a heart attack. How successful do you think the last bidder who cried out would be at getting the item?
If someone yelled fire and everyone ran for the exits?
Maybe even if the sund system went out or the phone lines went down for call in bidders which is close to what is happening.
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jamesoblivion
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posted on October 17, 2000 08:01:55 PM
Disclaim all you want, but when push comes to shove you may get one of those negative feedback things people seem terrified of, if you choose to enforce it. I don't see a purpose in a disclaimer that accomplishes nothing but just adds more text to your auction for buyers to ignore.
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sadie999
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posted on October 17, 2000 08:02:46 PM
Would a general disclaimer like this be against eBay's guidelines?
"Seller reserves the right to void this auction if anything, including but not limited to acts of God, keeps this auction from running for the amount of time originally set up for this auction."
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macandjan
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posted on October 17, 2000 08:11:00 PM
I don't see how they can limit us setting terms that don't CONTRIDICT their rules that just EXTEND or CLARIFY. EBay suggests contact in 3 days. Many sellers set hard limits.
EBay offers payment options - sellers ADD and limit payment and REFUSE some. Sellers limit shipping areas and methods. Ebay says what THEY will do - extend or not - refund or not.
The right to end your auction is pretty basic.
If it is impossible to end it because you can't commumicate you should be able to set terms to do so.
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jamesoblivion
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posted on October 17, 2000 08:14:21 PM
What could be the purpose of such a disclaimer?
According to ebay rules you would still be obliged to sell, despite any disclaimer. The only consequence, of course, is a possible neg. No one can force you to turn over something that you are in possession of. With or without the disclaimer that's the case; you can always refuse to sell with or without a disclaimer and you can still be given a negative with or without a disclaimer.
So why disclaim at all?
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sadie999
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posted on October 17, 2000 08:21:58 PM
Could someone post the link that shows eBay's rule on posting a disclaimer mentioning eBay outages?
Thank you!
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jamesoblivion
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posted on October 17, 2000 08:26:14 PM
I don't believe they address that specifically, but it is probably covered in this paragraph from the User Agreement:
5.2 Binding Bids. Except for items listed in a category under the Non-binding Bid Policy, if you receive at least one bid at or above your stated minimum price (or in the case of reserve auctions, at or above the reserve price), you are obligated to complete the transaction with the highest bidder upon the auction's completion, unless there is an exceptional circumstance, such as: (a) the buyer fails to meet the terms of your listing (such as payment method), or (b) you cannot authenticate the buyer's identity.
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sadie999
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posted on October 17, 2000 08:30:59 PM
Thank you jamesoblivion!
I guess this would be a bad time to experiment with 99c auctions, huh?
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macandjan
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posted on October 17, 2000 08:32:01 PM
Well the auction being terminated prematurely due to outage seems like an "exceptional circumstance" to me. If eBay makes the arguement that it is common and normal what does that say about them?
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bhearsch
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posted on October 17, 2000 09:07:09 PM
I have seen a number of eBay auctions with functionality disclaimers added by the seller and I think this is covered under the "exceptional circumstance" clause in the User Agreement. I doubt if you will be sanctioned by eBay if you add such a disclaimer in your auction terms. However, if your auction has a bidder you can be opening yourself up for a neg since eBay's system will recognize the legitimacy of the high bidder by allowing him to enter a neg with the auction number. There's simply no way to avoid that problem.
Blanche
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