As many of you probably did, I received the following message from eBay this morning which kinda caps off the changes they have been threatening to make to their "Adults Only" area for a while now.
They have changed the name and are also adding a search engine to this area. Problem is, I can't tell for sure exactly what is not allowed. The rules are fuzzy and the last thing I want is to have my account suspended because I thought I was following the rules, but wasn't.
I know there are other sellers of Adult items here. A very small percentage of what I sell would be considered Adult, but I am wondering what everyone's opinion of this change is.
As an example, can Adult videos now be listed and searched?
---
This notification is to provide you with information on changes being made within eBay's Adult Only area and Risque categories. If you do not list items in these areas, please disregard this e-mail.
---------------------
Adult Only
---------------------
We have a series of changes being introduced today within this area starting with the following:
A revision to our policy surrounding what will be permitted within Adult Only includes no longer permitting listings that are sexually graphic in nature. Click here to learn more about these revisions.
Effective November 10, 2000:
*Rename Adult Only to "Mature Audiences"
*Alphabetize the Mature Audiences category with other categories in Everything Else
Effective Late November (TBD):
* Implement a search engine for the Mature Audiences categories (It will only search for items within those categories).
If you are listing items in these areas, please familiarize yourself with the revised policy.
----------------------
Risque
----------------------
Since April 20th of this year, we have had a revised Adult Only policy in place that also included our Risque (and Related) Category policies. We will be more actively enforcing the existing policies, so you may notice some differences. Click here to familiarize yourself with these policies.
For questions or comments on these revisions, please email [email protected]
posted on October 20, 2000 09:58:38 AM new
Here is an interesting loop hole in ebay prohibitions...
The lawyers seemed to have forgotten one trick, what wouldtake a little skilled HTML'ing to pull off...
Have a page that gives a santized describition for example:
"Debbie Does Clinton"
VHS 90 Minutes
Starring Debbie Dahl & Bubba Clinton
By Dreck Brothers
Standard terms of sale
Then a link <Click Here for Full Description>
Link opens a pop-up window with cover scans and back cover blurb.
Now a really neat trick would be to code it so that it detects the clickers IP address and if an ebay staffer clicks, it opens ebay's home page.
Ebay customer support says that this is to to basically "Zone Out" porn sellers, they same way that cities used complex zoning laws to drive out adult businesses.
posted on October 20, 2000 11:57:23 AM new
The only problem I have with this change is the denigration of the word "Mature". The material in these areas maybe for "Adults"( a term loosely defined as someone who has survived to age eighteen) but most "Adult Material" is definitely not mature.
posted on October 20, 2000 10:54:29 PM newA revision to our policy surrounding what will be permitted within Adult Only includes no longer permitting listings that are sexually graphic in nature. Click here to learn more about these revisions.
OK, so what the heck does that mean?
Sexually graphic in nature. This to me means graphic descriptions or photos. So if I were to list a very "hard core" XXX movie but kept the photos out of it and gave only the title, and some very basic, generic, non "graphic" info, it'd be ok to list??
posted on October 20, 2000 11:27:59 PM new
(Hopefully, this is within the guidelines of the CG's. If not, I apologize moderators, please don't kill me, just delete the thread, and don't give me a warning.)
NEW PORNOGRAPHY VIDEOTAPE VHS - Some Actress with some other guy...
This video has it all!! It has some blonde Woman with a Big Chest girth and she is putting a guys wee-wee into her cha-cha (My apologies to South Park Fans on this board), and they both scream some obcenities at each other. They do this to other people in this video.
Can I be even more vague and idiotic in this description?
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
[ edited by Crystalline_Sliver on Oct 20, 2000 11:33 PM ]
posted on October 21, 2000 04:46:55 AM new
That would make the Search kind of a problem. A search in the Mature category for "wee-wee" and "cha-cha" returned 55,000 hits. Sigh...
What's funny is that there's a surprising lack of response from the porn sellers. The usual responses from "special interest" sellers usually include,
1) "eBay will crumble without us."
2) "We built eBay, now they're giving us the boot."
3) "They were always happy to take our money before."
4) "We'll go to another site and then that site will be bigger than eBay."
Smut dealers seem to be taking it "lying down."
(If I recall from the list of prohibitions, the word "teen" can't be used in an auction description. Buh-bye, adult category.)
posted on October 21, 2000 07:08:43 AM new
I was hoping they would have named this the "Immature Audience" in keeping with the buyers' inabilities to relate to people as something more than a stimulator or receptacle with various curvy or muscular characteristics.
posted on October 21, 2000 08:36:09 AM new
I for one think its a great idea, and if they would allow me a second ID linked to my feedbacks on the first ID, that would even be better, I like to sell art, by well known pinup artists, Alberto Vargas, Earl Moran, Olivia, Sorayama, MacPherson, Petty ect. I also think I have t responcabilty to be careful when I post these items, and not post toys at the same time. A dual ID would allow me to post all items, and the adult stuff would not come up under seller search with the G rated ID Just a thought. Ed
edhdsn
posted on October 21, 2000 09:20:23 AM new
Hi All! Long time no type...
Actually, I was kind of involved with eBay in this new policy creation (a couple of focus group kind of things), and as a seller of adult material exclusively, I am rather happy about this new policy.
Six months ago, eBay herded ALL of us who were selling adult product, magazines, videos, toys, etc., into the Adults Only category. We had more freedom to list and use dirty words and pictures, but with no search engine, our sales dropped about 75%! I see the new policy as a sort of compromise: we get a "limited" search engine, and for it we have to use some of the same kinds of descriptions and pictures that I used to use when I posted in the Open Areas.
I can live with that, as long as the search engine helps with sales. Yes, it is going to be a problem for some items, but... I will find a way to work with the new policy.
(I had to resist the temptation to run in here after the first focus group screaming "EBAY IS GOING TO BAN ALL HARDCORE MATERIAL!!!", since that is what they were originally proposing. I was glad to see them back down from that proposal.
Actually, if anyone doesn't understand the new policies, I think I can probably answer a few questions since I have talked to them for about 4 hours total (in the last few weeks) about this stuff. I may actually, soft of, understand it.....
posted on October 21, 2000 11:23:32 AM new
Reading between the lines in ebay noticed.. There two interestings points:
1) They state that they may tighten the rules again (and they would not bring that up I think unless may=will).
2) They basically admited that safeharbor has been very arbitary about enforcement.
Porn is one of these hot button issues that two very big groups don't like, and given the poor oversite of safeharbor it seems that it pretty easy for an anti-porn fanatic to use their position to decide that just about anything could be prohibited.
I would guess that one reason why the porn sellers are not bitching is that they know they have a market that WILL seek them out.
Last year I bought out a few dozen porn tapes from a reviewer, and I found that I could sell them like hotcakes on ebay, yahoo, usenet, etc. I could sell one tape, and send the buyer a list, and they would almost always pick up 2-3 more at the same price.
Look at yahoo auctions... most sections are ghost towns, books have a bid on about 2% of the items, PC Games, maybe 5%. (looking a random sample).
PORN... about 90% of the video tapes have a bid.
Why sell porn on ebay at all? Yahoo is free, reasonably unrestricted. If Ebay wants to be a Mall in Peoria, then Yahoo is Swapmeet is Los Angeles.
In fact Yahoo seems to have shown that an auction service in California, can safely ignore california prohibited items laws without a problem, and can pretty ignore pressure groups like the Simon Weisenthal Center also.
posted on October 21, 2000 11:33:14 AM neweoi:[i]Why sell porn on ebay at all? Yahoo is free, reasonably unrestricted. If Ebay wants to be a Mall in Peoria, then Yahoo is Swapmeet is Los Angeles.
[/i]
Los Angeles does have stringent Porn laws. San Fransisco on the other hand...ever hear of the Folsom Street Fair?
Okay Wiffy, debate time. I want you to answer some queries of mine about this new policy.
The AVN website reported on this story and I noticed this part that wasn't covered by AW here in their story:
"There has been speculation that eBay acted in considerable part in answer to critics who suggested the online auction kings needed to get a little more stringent in keeping out video pirates, with some reports indicating eBay adult auctions often included lots of 100 pirated adult videos, and sellers changing their names rapidly once detected and returning to sell them again.'
What do you have to say on this matter?
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on October 21, 2000 05:21:44 PM new
Crystalline Sliver:
I live on the stuffy westside where you can't even buy beer after 11pm, but I can think of about 4-5 stores close by that sell porn tapes from video stores, liquor stores, pawn shops, etc. I'm sure LA has laws about display, but they are not very agressively enforced.
Any mature looking teen could browse around the adult section of my local video store for probably about 10-30 minures before a staffer might notice, if the staffer would even care.
Yeah SF is even looser...
The Video Piracy is pretty common, a lot of sellers don't even hide that fact. I'm wondering if that Porn Industry is hampered by the fact that the police may not be willing to help investigate crimes against an industry that they consider illegal itself.
I've noticed that no porn studios have a VERO About Me Page.
posted on October 21, 2000 11:54:16 PM new
Not too many VERO's on eBay have About me pages. In fact, some work in secret. Guess they don't want someone to know their true intent.
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
I was going to take you up on your offer and write you with a question I have on the new policy, but don't see your e-mail address anywhere.
So, after we have all mulled over this, I still have a question:
Can we or can't we sell adult/porn videos on eBay in the new "mature audience" area??
I see lots of guidelines in their policy about editing images, etc.. but it sounds to me that you CAN sell adult videos as long as you edit the photo and be certain to be tasteful in your wording in the description.
I sell very few adult items, but gave up months ago because I wasn't getting any bids without a search engine in the adult area.
I want to post and WANT to follow the rules, but I find them confusing. The last thing I was is my auctions stopped or my ID suspended on eBay when I truly didn't intend to break the rules.
posted on October 23, 2000 12:14:20 PM new
I deal in videos that are difficult to find, from belly dancing to hard core adult.
The new rules come down to tempering the content of adult auctions with less graphic photos and gutter language descriptions. I know that for some buyers the more raunchy the presentation the more excited they get to bid. BUT this is the low end of the market, those videos @ $10 or so.
The high end of the market, say married couples who want to enhance their relationship, or those with some taste and refinement, like more informative and buyer friendly descriptions.
I think the changes therefore are for the general good.
On the other hand it is the low end sellers of pirated tapes that have most often abused the general section of eBay with their inappropirate listings. I hope that the general area is made safe for the average family again, while the new mature category becomes a successful venue for adult videos.
I would also hope that eBay will hire someone more qualified to oversee this area's enforcement. It is clear that to date those who make the calls are very uncomfortable and ignorant about the job they are being asked to do. Most of the problems eBay has had with adult are due to their own inexperience, mismanagement and bad decisions. In this area you can not be, as the lawyers say, "capricious and arbitrary" as they have been. They must be clear, fair and reliable in enforcing their own rules.
posted on October 27, 2000 07:27:35 PM new
well this is my first time at this area. and this disscusion about ebay killing off or changing the "ADULT AREA" brought me here.
and this is only my own thought on this whole issue. adult/adult porn or the adult area in general is a very time consuming thing. i bet you that ebay gets more complaints more bs about the adult area then any other area at all. and that takes alot of time and $ spent that they were not thinking about. then on the other hand the adult area probally brings in either 1 of 2 things alot of traffic or $. so now they are faced with "WHAT SHOULD WE DO". if you think of ebay as your local want ad's everthing is going great and subscrtions are up. and now you newspaper is being bombarded with adult ad's which = more $..
things area going along great. then all the BS starts the email so SH the emails to there tech area and such...now they are faced at what to do... so instead of killing the adult area all together they calm it down a bit. Why because of a few reasons number 1 its going to scare the bee-geesss out of the scammers and dead beats. and also they can still keep it and keep it mellow and see it there $ decreass by a great deal or not. if it does'nt they have won if it does i bet they changes things around again. the adult world is very big and you just can not hide it under a rug. it is a proven fact. think about it a "most guy's" get their first computer sets it all up and sign on to the internet. i bet you with in 5 days he is putting adult words in every se that hey can find. and yes women to but not as much. so what they are trying to do is play a double bladed sword. and waiting to see what will be the outcome..
well that is only my 2 cents.
