posted on October 20, 2000 02:32:09 PM
Haven't and won't, after looking at their gallery. I groused to them some time back about their very, very high quilt appraisals in comparison to what these items have historically brought at online auctions. Their explanation? They use "a number" of different sale-price sources, including L auctions and retail shops. And what else, Kovels'? To me it didn't look like they factored in e.g. ebay high bids at ALL, and frankly my guess is that most folks going to an online appraisal service are going to try to SELL the item online as well. At the very least they could compare online high bids with RL auctions and retail shops. And they don't, whidh I think is unintentionally misleading folks wanting to cash in on Granny's heirlooms.
posted on October 20, 2000 03:57:42 PM
Toke, having some knowledge of the legal workings of appraisals and appraisal statements, I can state that your statement is false. Courts of law and insurance companies regularly accept appraisals made from photographs providing they are appraised by ASA professionals (there are also a few other appraisal associations.) While the opposing attorney or company can try to knock down the methods or the person's expertise, the fact is that judgements are made daily regarding the value of art objects from photographs. The most common example is when a fire/flood/etc. destroys a work of art---could be a quilt, a painting, or antique furniture. Often there was never an appraisal before the fire/flood/destruction and the appraiser has only photographs, sworn statements, and his/her expertise to go by. Another example is when jewelry is stolen and all the owners have to make a claim is a picture. Appraisals based on photographs, statements and the appraiser's expertise are used and accepted all the time by courts of law all over the world. Another for-instance---people claiming losses due to Nazis in WW2 used photographs to prove value since in most cases nothing else was left.
It makes perfect sense to say that an in-person appraisal is going to be more detailed and more accurate, and I would agree that it is *preferable*--- but that doesn't mean that *detailed* and *accurate* appraisals *can't* be done with photographs. If that is what you think, and many do--well, the legal system, insurance companies and even some museums (like the Van Gogh Museum) disagree with you.
posted on October 20, 2000 04:34:04 PM
As an antiques dealer for over 25 years, I can tell you that a photograph is worthless as an estimate of legitimacy or value...legalisms aside.
I can take old fabric...piece together an Amish style quilt by hand. Closeups or not...a photo will never show you the fake. A photo will not show a good reproduction of anything...not even the recent Roseville junk. For selling antiques online...a photo appraisal is worthless.
Who in there right mind would pay $20 or more to have a faked Item apprasied.
I under stand its dificult with some old item to get a true value just useing a photo
I wont fight that part at all.
I think these online appraisal services are great if you come acrost an Item you have no Idea of its value or even what it is for a few $$ you can learn a good history of your Item to help make your listing and give your auction some credibilty.
This is what I will call the main reason for there use. I have used a few online apprasial service for the one time free deals and this is there strong point if you have little knowlege of the item you have to sell you will get a fairly good amount of history about your item.
for beginers in the antique and collectables world the money is worth the education and will improve your auction listing and maybe even help you decide what a good start or reserve price is and maybe improve your chase of selling based on information you can give.
posted on October 20, 2000 05:17:50 PM
I recently had an item that had been in my family since I could remember, back in the 30's. My family had used it for a doorstop. I just wanted to know what it was rather than value so when it was half price, I put several pictures on and it turned out to be an art deco sculpture appraised for between $275 - 375. I never planned to sell it but I am happy to know what it is.
posted on October 20, 2000 05:57:21 PM
There is no substitute for hands-on knowledge. Paying $20 or so for someone who is PAID to appraise is nonsense. Read, buy books, go to shows, feel, touch, and experience antiques for about 20-30 years and then you MAY be able to do a fair market appraisal. There are "book prices" and then there are "current market prices", and never do they meet. I agree with Toke, and I have been doing antiques a looooonnnng time!
A good example of this are the current prices in 20th century glass. Try and get the "book price" on ebay. Can't be done on the ordinary stuff. But just put up one unusual piece not normally seen, and the price goes thru the roof! How can an appraiser do that?
I don't mean to sound contentious on this, but "appraisals" are here today, and no good tomorrow!
posted on October 21, 2000 05:54:56 AM
I'm going to give it a shot. I found 3 appraisal services and they all charge $20, but I thought to give my first business to AW.
I have many oriental pieces and have not found any oriental specialists.Anybody know of any?
Naturally, I don't expect to sell it at an online auction as you know you are only going to get a third or fourth of it's value.
Are you near any major auction houses, or any reputable shops specialising in orientalia? Oriental pieces, even more than most antiques, require hands-on evaluation. I'm assuming you believe your pieces to be old. The orientals themselves have been reproducing pieces and old marks for eons. Truly...a photo just won't do it. Unless you know your pieces to be current. In that case, I think photo appraisal would be fine.
posted on October 21, 2000 06:43:45 AM
Deco.
I recommend WarrenImports.com
for appraisal services of Far East Orientalia.
Michael May is the best. The firm
has dealt in fine Asian Items for over 50 years.
I bugged him so much I thought I better give AuctionWatch a try and let Michael have a little rest.
PS:
I am still waiting for an answer to my appraisal here at AW. They emailed me requesting a close up (but if you click on my photo is does give a close up).
posted on October 21, 2000 11:28:15 AMWho in there right mind would pay $20 or more to have a faked Item apprasied.
Somebody who has a fake worth $20 who thinks he can get it appraised as the "real thing" worth $500?
There is indeed no substitute for a hands-on examination. How can you see, e.g., repairs/oxidation on the underside of a piece of furniture in a couple pix? How do you know the colors in the pix are accurate? How do you know that the owner isn't hiding flaws/damage?
For a ballpark, however - and with a lot of qualifying statements - an online appraisal is, well, okay if you can't get to a RL appraiser.
My biggest concern would be the value attributed to the piece, and how the appraiser arrived at that value.
posted on October 21, 2000 11:42:41 AM
No,I'm not near anything, the best I can do is look up orientalia in Jacksonville or Orland, but Florida is not a good area to research it. I have a book but it's so hard to tell. You are right, it looks like it could come from Pier 1 yesterday!
However, I know that it came to me thru my aunt who just passed away and it came to her when her husband passed away in 1964. He was John Walbridge,Jr. & George Mann Neidecken Interior designers of Milwaukee,Wi. in the 1920's -1940's. They did the decorations for the Imperial Hotel in Japan and he made several trips to the Orient. Neidecken made the furniture for Frank Lloyd Wright.
It would seem that this knowledgeable a man would not pick up reproduction souvenir type items but you just never know. Of course, I know everything is pre 1950 but whether the marks are authentic Jiaqing dynasty (pre 1820)I have no idea.
posted on October 21, 2000 11:58:57 AM
Okay...how about a museum? They often have experts who can help you identify and date your items. They obviously don't do valuations, but once you know what you have you can do your own price research. Sounds like it's even possible you have something great. Stranger things have happened.
Whatever you do...take your time and do it right. Haste could cost you a lot of money, and so could an inadequate appraisal.
posted on October 21, 2000 05:20:58 PM
Thank you zeenza and toke.I will try both and did try AW on 1 item just to see what they say.
I don't want to get my hopes too high. It just may have been that Orientalia was the "in" thing then and they may have ordered it by the boatload and it was all reproduction with an old mark.
posted on October 31, 2000 02:18:01 PM
This from the AW Appraisal Service's fine print:
The above AuctionWatch Appraisal is an opinion based solely upon our examination of the photograph/s and accompanying information submitted by client. This valuation reflects the current market value for similar pieces. It is an estimate of the item's auction value, and is intended for educational and personal interest only. This opinion cannot be used for insurance, estate or tax purposes. Individuals seeking a formal written appraisal for any purpose should contact a qualified appraiser to examine the object/s in person.
If you did a "completed auctions" search you'd get about the same information, and actually a MORE accurate view of what the item would bring if you plan on selling it online.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Oct 31, 2000 02:18 PM ]
disagree with you.