msstone
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posted on October 22, 2000 05:40:33 PM
I OFFER PAYMENT BY MC, VISA, DISCOVER, PAY PAL, BID PAY, MONEY ORDERS, PERSONAL CHECK, CASHIERS CHECKS AND BUSINESS CHECKS. I do not do escrow. This Newbie demands escrow because they do not want to give out their credit card. I sell a very fragile item emeralds. If they are damaged by the buyer and returned I have no recourse but to lose the money for the stone, the s/h fee and the listing fees. I do not like the fact that someone else determines when I get paid. I do not have control over my merchandise. This was the first thing I learned when I went into the gem business over 20 years ago, Always maintain control of your gems.
The bottom line of this all is my business policy is no stone is shipped anywhere until I have been paid. If the buyer is unhappy I will refund their money less s/h if the stone is returned in the same condition it was sent to them in. I am a powerseller with over 339 uniques and 614 positives lots of repeat buyers. I do have 4 negatives from retailiation from non paying bidders and one neutral where I was slow at getting this persons winnings out. I boo booed.
My terms of payment are plainly stated in my TOS. They are restated in my winners note.
Sellers how do you feel about escrow? Please tell me about your problems. Tell me about your good times.
I really want to hear from other sellers. I think escrow protects the buyer but not the seller. Feedback Please.
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on October 22, 2000 05:55:11 PM
Escrow is good for the buyer but any seller who uses it is playing with fire IMO.
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candiman
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posted on October 22, 2000 05:57:48 PM
I had the exact same thing happen.
All I did was tell the buyer that escrow was NOT an option in my zuction, therefore ONLYn the payment terms visible on the auction page apply. If it's not there, it's NOT offered. I also told them that they can check with Ebay administration to be told the same thing.
Newbie was just uptight after having her first several transactions go bad.
She sent the money (priority mail!) and I sent the item before the check cleared.
Happy customer. I'm sure the next time she's burned she'll just trash her computer.
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dman3
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posted on October 22, 2000 05:58:39 PM
I have never used Escrow myself and even though the buyer has a period of time to exsept or reject the item you stand just as much chance of a charge back or frozen paypal account.
The thing is if you Never exsept escrow on your sales you do not have to exsept it now fallow and belive in what you do and how you do it.
The only real control a buyer has over the sale is makeing the bid and shipping since after they bid and they conferm they are paying the item is theirs they can pay you what they feel is a fair actual cost to ship there item. this way they are getting just what they are willing to pay for shabby packing 3rd class delivery an no insurance if thats what they want and there is a problem its what they choose to pay for you did your part and can feel good about your self 
WWW.dman-n-company.com
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minx47
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posted on October 22, 2000 06:01:12 PM
After having researched the escrow options and reading other threads on this board, I ABSOLUTELY refuse to use escrow services. I have heard nothing good about them. I refuse them for the very same reasons you state above. I have never had anyone ask me about it but I know what my answer would be..... . Good Luck, hope you can convince them away from escrow services. Pam
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msstone
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posted on October 22, 2000 06:18:52 PM
After several emails with the buyer hanging carrots out. How they buy stones directly from the mines. Rubies and Sapphires. (this is questionable, it is possible but not probable) They claim emeralds are harder to get from the mines. So they decided to try the auctions. They are going to buy many stones. How they must have 2 days to have the stones appraised. Frankly I do not know any dealer or jeweler that is going to spend $39 on a stone and then spend from $15 to $50 to get the stone appraised by a GIA appraiser. I degress. What I see is the old phd story. In other words their emails are getting piled higher and deeper with bull.
Trying to be understanding of a newbie and a zero. I email that I would let them out of the auctions but I would be filing a non paying bidder for FVF to get my fees back on their three auctions. I also stated I would not leave them negative feedback unless they do.
They wanted me to reconsider escrow and how I was going to lose out on their many purchases to another vendor.
I plan now to file the npb when the time is right and then fvr and no more email to these people. I hate to lose a potential customer but I do not need the garbage this customer has been strewing.
Any sellers with bad escrow stories? Good escrow stories?
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VeryModern
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posted on October 22, 2000 06:23:39 PM
yes, trust your gut. Highly doubtful that you're losing a dime.
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loosecannon
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posted on October 22, 2000 06:23:46 PM
Never used Escrow at all and I've only been asked once even though I often sell expensive items. Just say no. Let your feedback record do the talking.
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erost
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posted on October 22, 2000 06:25:56 PM
Stay a million miles away from escrow!!!! The ONLY time that I was ripped off in 18 months of selling on EBay was due to an escrow deal. The guy got to keep the tie AND my money.
Elaine
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CAgrrl
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posted on October 22, 2000 07:15:49 PM
erost- how did that happen?
HMMMMM.....I have never used escrow & was wondering about it also.
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macandjan
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posted on October 22, 2000 08:39:14 PM
I would bet anything from the sound of it that they are going to complain that they did not get a $500.00 stone for their $39.00
That is why I stopped selling stones about 15 years ago.
That and people who would buy a beautiful beryl and mount it sticking way up in an unprotected solitaire mount and want to return it for refund when they destroy it by impact 3 years later.
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ken316
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posted on October 22, 2000 09:23:07 PM
I had buy some item with Escrow and the seller ship it very fast compare with other. I pay a CO to 1 seller and after that she told me it had been sent with SURFACE MAIL!!! Another 1 i pay for EMS but still dont get after 10 days!!!!
I usually pay within 24hrs after receive the goods. If you seller don't accept Escrow, there is only 1 reason. And that is you had confessed yourself not a good seller on this business.
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valerie47
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posted on October 22, 2000 09:27:25 PM
ken316:
I couldn't disagree with you more! I have over 3000 feedbacks with a rating of 99% positives. I have PROVEN myself to be a reputable seller - and I have NEVER accepted Escrow and I NEVER WILL!
One could say "If a *BUYER* insists on escrow there can only be one reason - because they are trying to scam you!"
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
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london4
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posted on October 22, 2000 09:48:28 PM
msstone, While the amount in question isn't very large in this case, your newbie winner may have read the story in the NY Times about the ebay bidder who bought the $10,000 diamond for his wife on ebay, didn't use i-escrow and is still trying to recoup his losses. Remember that post from a couple of months ago?
You do have some recourse if the bidder wanted to return the stones, but it would be time consuming and probably not worth it on small transaction. If the bidder is unhappy and wishes to return the stone, i-escrow will not release the funds she's put into escrow back to her until you notify iescrow that the item you received back is in the same condition as when you mailed it to the buyer. If you and the buyer disagree on the condition, this is where it gets time consuming. You have to go into mediation to attempt to resolve it.
IMO, I wouldn't use escrow unless it was a high dollar amount.
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msstone
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posted on October 22, 2000 09:51:40 PM
Ken: I stand by my feedback. Read above. I have almost double my by basic feedback from repeat buyers. I am honest, I sell my product with itegrity and conduct my business in a professional manner.
Escrow leaves me open to abuse from dishonest buyers. I ship USPS insured fast and well packaged. I ship money orders, credit cards, cashiers checks and pay pal abd bid pay within 48 hours of my receipt. Check I hold 7 to 10 days as stated in my TOS.
I can honestly say for the most part I have great customers. I sell to dealers all over the world and to individuals also. I have many regulars who buy again and again.
I have had the abusers also. I have told several scam artists to hit the road.
London4-I didn't see that article. It is a shame that there are unprincipled sellers out there. I see that on some auctions items that the seller states are one thing but are obviously another. The thing that I do see is that those sellers do not stay around long. They do not have repeat buyers. Their feedback represents their dishonesty.
I know I offer a good stone at or below wholesale prices. I buy right and pass the savings to my buyers.
Escrow scares me. I can't have inventory somewhere where I can't be responsible for it.
[ edited by msstone on Oct 22, 2000 10:02 PM ]
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cozmo227
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posted on October 22, 2000 10:15:27 PM
Sounds like that is not just a problem waiting to happen, its already a problem.
I would not change my TOS. I would email him back that TOS were clearly posted, thems the rules, if he doesn't like it he should contact eBay.
If he was that worried about it, he should not have made a binding bid on your auction.
If he wanted extra special terms just for him, he should have contacted you before bidding.
You are not a bad dealer by standing by your policy. Just like he can't go into Saks and "make" them take American Express.
I would be short but polite, end of story.
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Borillar
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posted on October 22, 2000 11:28:50 PM
For all the time that we have had this eBay business we have offered escrow as an option. That is, until this last month where I got tired of it cluttering up my auctions and decided to not offer it.
Why did I do that?
Because no one ever asked for it. May be because we always refused to pay a penny for doing escrow might have had something to do with it.
Are we loosing sales by not offering escrow? I don't think so. Did we loose bids because we refused to pay 1/2? I don't care, the customer is afraid and wants it - let them pay for it.
ESCROW: great for buying a home and not much else IMO.
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guuuyyy
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posted on October 23, 2000 05:17:32 AM
Well, he doesn't have to give his CC for a money order, right! I would email him politely and tell him escrow is not an option under the TERMS OF THE AUCTION. If he continues with it, then leave a negative under that premise. He should not be bidding on auctions that don't have that as an option. Like me, for example, I live in Canada, and quite often i see items that state "ship to U.S only". I don't bid on the item and then demand the seller ship it to me UNLESS i have emailed him/her before I bid and ask if it is alright to do so. It is always proper to ask first, rather than demand later. AND AS LONG AS YOUR POLICIES ARE CLEARLY STATED IN THE AUCTION, HE HAS NO ROOM TO BE MAKING DEMANDS.
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pickersangel
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posted on October 23, 2000 05:45:24 AM
One of the reasons for filing a NPB is"High bidder didn't comply with seller's terms and conditions stated in listing". Tell you bidder he must use one of the methods of payment given in the listing, or you will consider the transaction voided. Then file the NPB using this reason.
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mballai
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posted on October 23, 2000 05:51:12 AM
Escrow plays on people's fear of risk. It doesn't make any sense except for an extremely pricey and rare antique.
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jwpc
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posted on October 23, 2000 07:12:35 AM
msstone
I offer my buyers the same means of payment that you do, and I don't escrow, have never been asked to, and if asked I would clearly tell my buyer that "I am sorry but we do not escrow and our ad states such."
A sale isn't that important to me - I will not be bothered with escrow.
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yisgood
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posted on October 23, 2000 01:03:04 PM
I used escrow twice, once as a buyer and once as a seller. Where I was the seller, I used tradesafe. It worked very smoothly but then again, I sent the item as described. When I was the buyer, I used Iescrow. The seller sent me 100 CDRs instead of CDRWs. Then he emailed me that if I took them, he would reimburse me $20. I told him that I didnt need 100, so if I sent back 50, would he reduce the remaining 50 by $10, to which he agreed. I forwarded his email to Iescrow and asked them to lower the price by $10. They refused and told me that unless the seller logged into Iescrow and changed the price, I had to return them all at my expense and I would be reimbursed the cost, less his shipping to me. So his mistake would cost me over $40. Or I could keep the 50 and pay the price for the full 100. As I was getting ready to return the last 50, the seller went to Iescrow and reduced the price by less than half and I paid it because it would have cost only a little less to ship it all back. It left me with a bad feeling that Iescrow assisted this seller in ripping me off.
At this point I have been selling for well over a year and have well over 100 excellents with only 1 negative from a deadbeat over a year old. I think my ratings speak for themselves and anyone who can't trust them and wants escrow should go find another seller.
By the way, doesnt the buyer have to pay the escrow service with a credit card? So why not pay exchangepath and not only will he save the escrow fee, he will get $10 back?
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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msstone
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posted on October 23, 2000 01:17:19 PM
I know a lot of sellers don't like newbies. I am not thrilled with them either. They always seem to DEMAND A EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF TIME AND INFORMATION. I do try to give them the extra attention because they don't know any better. There are days when I absolutely dread seeing a winning zero on one of my auctions.
I have written off these three auctions and will file for my fees when ebays allows and put the stones back up for auction. I plan on adding to my already too wordy TOS no escrow.
I wonder why when you use AW you check no escrow but it doesn't show up on the auctions
stated that way. Anybody know why?
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Freddy57
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posted on October 23, 2000 02:48:01 PM
I hear of lot of talking down about Newbies, but in reality, where would we be without them? We can only sell so much to the same old people over and over. It takes a lot of work sometimes but sooner or later we are going to need the added customer base.
When it comes to Escrow, I just say NO!!
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janusaries
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posted on October 23, 2000 02:53:14 PM
I both buy and sell on eBay, and have only used escrow as a buyer. It was NOT something I demanded--I was buying stones from an international dealer (Thailand), and iescrow was how they did ALL their business. Did business with them multiple times, using iescrow each time (at seller's expense), and the transactions went quickly and smoothly. Of course, it helped that they were selling a quality product.
As a seller, I do not accept escrow. Most of my transactions are low-dollar amounts ($50 or less), so it would not be cost effective.
I have accumulated over 900 positive feedbacks, and believe my record should speak for itself as to the quality of my products and service.
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CAgrrl
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posted on October 23, 2000 04:32:11 PM
london4- thanks for your informative post. I had wondered if escrow would provide any sort of protection to the seller from the old "switcheroo" that buyers pull sometimes. It sounds like it would offer a SMALL measure, enough to maybe discourage them from trying it, so that's something.
I have a very good friend whose collection includes Tiffanys, Ertes, and countless other very valuable items. He has been ripped off 4 or 5 times on Ebay now, to the tune of thousands of dollars. If I were in his shoes I wouldn't buy ANYTHING else on Ebay without escrow. Feedback is fine if you're buying average everday stuff like what most of us trade in, but when you're talking about high dollar amounts you just can't be too safe IMO.
Escrow wouldn't be cost effective in 99% of my auctions either since I deal in ordinary stuff. But I would consider using it if a buyer really wanted it & were willing to pay, as long as the item in question were something that seemed to warrant it.
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guuuyyy
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posted on October 24, 2000 02:38:34 PM
It would be nice if ebay added the minimum bidder rating option like they have at yahoo. If they are less then the number you choose, they can't bid.
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CleverGirl
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posted on October 24, 2000 03:02:58 PM
Some of my most rewarding selling experiences were with newbie buyers.
I know different categories attract varying degrees of *quality* bidders (or lack thereof), but not all newbies are a PITB or deadbeats or stupid or unable to read the instructions or mean or out to make your life miserable.
Just wanted to put a plug in for those who have to start somewhere, like all the rest of us.
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macandjan
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posted on October 24, 2000 03:16:48 PM
I would be real concerned about a buyer "upgraging" a stone or an antique that was damaged with mine and sending me the dud back. Most stones are not measured closely in dimension and the only real positive ID I know of is a laser print of a diamond. It would require very accurate records to convince the escrow house your item was switched.
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Shadowcat
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posted on October 24, 2000 03:50:36 PM
I've read a couple articles on online auctions and the authors tell the unsuspecting potential bidder to DEMAND an escrow service be used to prevent the seller from ripping off the bidder. Nothing is ever said about the seller's TOS or even contacting the seller in advance to ask if they accept escrow. The bidder is simply supposed to insist on escrow or else consider the seller to be trying to rip them off.
If that's the advice being put out in magazines, it's no wonder that some newbies think they can call the shots about whether or not escrow is used.
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