posted on October 24, 2000 10:46:37 AM
Hi All- I just need to vent abit and get this out.. Why is it that some eBay buyers can't just follow what the seller send them? Re: payment etc. I've been using the AW format WBN I think its called- where it give sthem notification of auction ending and a link to go to fill out all info re: thier transaction. I've done it when Ive purchased items myself. Not really a big deal. Sure, it takes afew minutes- but what doesnt these days?! Instead- I get seperate e-mails
with folks
sending me only
thier shipping address!etc. No mention of payment and/or the email I sent them or even the info. for my records. I keep trying to get a method of organization Re: transactions. & It seems futile using these services that help selelrs to do this when so many buyers ignore requests anyway. Oh well... Guess its back to the drawing board.
I have no control over nayone but myself....arghhh! Thanks for letting me vent... Jess
posted on October 24, 2000 10:51:21 AM
Hi, its me again! Oh my! I just read my posting to the board here! So many errors/typos! Woops! I feel silly! Guess I better re read all and edit before hitting send! No spell check in here! Spoils one doesnt it? Having spell check "proof" so many outgoing emails etc. Ok.... Btw, does anyone know why the over-write thingy happens when typing in these boxes? I mean -where your typing along and go back to correct a typo and instead words get deleted for every new thing you type?! Thanks again! Jess
posted on October 24, 2000 11:01:04 AM
I can see how, as a seller, your system would be useful. As a buyer, however, I don't like it at all. I had my first experience with this last month, and I'm not interested in having a website collecting my personal buying history and contact information. There are enough attempts at online tracking and information collecting as it is, without voluntarily supplying even more data for the marketers (who, it seems, will never have enough).
Another thing... I realize the online forms are a timesaver for the seller, but they aren't for me as the buyer, and I'm not too pleased to be spending time doing the seller's bookkeeping for them. It's kind of like when you go to the store to buy a box of washers, and there is no barcode on the package. It can be plainly marked with a price, but they can't just ring it up and let you go on your way- you have to stand there while they search for the proper code, in order to track their inventory. Handy for them- not for you.
One more other thing... I have only one phone line, and I'm not online constantly. Sometimes, I download my mail in order to read and respond offline. Having to go back online to fill out a web form is not always convenient.
posted on October 24, 2000 11:05:37 AM
Well, with all dues respect, if your invoices are anything like your first post, perhaps your buyers are having some difficulty understanding what you are trying to say
posted on October 24, 2000 11:22:27 AM
Hi there- mrpotatoheadd- Thanks for your response. However- I do see your point on one hand? I have to say- how is it asking buyers to do the sellers bookeeping for them? I mean it actually saves time in the long run for buyers and sellers. I mean especially when it is an on-line payment electronically. (using credit etc). I'm not aware that my invoices are tracked? My customers e-mails and invoices come into my e-mail to me. My password etc. It just gets so confusing trying to figure out who is using which method etc. Also- when someone sits down to send a check for an Bay transaction- they have to spend a few minutes doing so and then mail it to boot. Sellers need info. Re: item # etc. Is that also considered doing the sellers paperwork for them? All other online internet transactions expect the same with payments- you don't just send them an e-mail with your address right? No..you have to fil out a form and complete all info. related to completing the sale and finalizing your transaction. I don't see this as a whole lot different. Except that I'm not a big business. I just have myself. Ok well... thats my "hit" on what you posted back to me. <p>I know we are all not the same obviously- we are all going to see things in our own perspectives. I do value different viewpoints-sometimes it helps me to consider options that hadn't maybe occurred to me? Have a great day- oceanamoon
posted on October 24, 2000 11:22:35 AM
Mrpotatoheadd, I have the same feelings about third party web sites.I will never use any invoice that requires me to place my personal information on yet another web site. Especially one that is not of my choosing.
I also email the seller and ask that THEY not place my information at that site as I consider it a violation of my privacy.
Paranoia is allowed on the internet,indeed encouraged!
posted on October 24, 2000 11:24:18 AM
I can sympathize. So few buyers complete the WBN Response, that I'm taken by surprise when one does. I have to agree with your point, though. I'd be perfectly willing to fill in the response myself, but while most of them do respond with a shipping address, few of them indicate whether they'll be paying by check or MO and whether or not they want insurance. I usually end up waiting until the payment shows up to find out.
pickersangel everywhere
posted on October 24, 2000 11:26:19 AM
Adrian be thankful you sell mostly one of a kind items. I sell idenical items at dutch auction and I get these mystery payments even
though I ask for user ID and auction number.
So when some person sends me $35.55 I usually can tell they have bought a miniature vise. However I don't know if it was this auction or last weeks, or even the 3rd or 4th auction back. Sometimes I run 5 or 6 auctions for the same thing in different categories.
Sometimes I can't tell if the payment is for eBay or Yahoo. I often have no idea who to leave feedback for and who to send a second request for payment because out of 30 possible buyers several send only the payment and shipping address. Clearly these people believe in mind readers.
posted on October 24, 2000 11:32:24 AM
Just to be clear, I have never sent a "mystery payment". My EOA email always has all the information required in it [ I sell more than I buy so I do know what is necessary] My payment always has the item number on it and my shipping information [again, just in case] as well as all the other information that I had put in my EOA email, such as the insurance requirement or any other pertinant info. I just feel it is up to me,not someone I do not know to decide where my personal information goes on the web.
posted on October 24, 2000 11:39:17 AM
I refuse to fill those things out. I send a PayPal payment if they accept PayPal with my name, the eBay item number and my address. If the seller can't figure out what to send me without some form I have to fill out, then that is too bad...never had anyone who could not figure it out yet though.
posted on October 24, 2000 11:41:22 AM
RB- While I realize that I made several errors and typos in my first post this a.m? Before I even read your response? I sent a 2nd post saying how silly I felt that I hadn't proofed it before sending it. We are all human. Btw, the invoices are VERY clear and easy to read. Some of which has
boxes to just mouse click a check mark into.& I do know that most
buyers actually understand what I'm saying. Because when there is confusion? Its usually because the buyer didn't read through the original policy or e-mail really- before sending an email with just their address
So with all due respect in return? I came here to share and post & get helpful feedback w/fellow eBay folks... not to be "put down". Besides I give folks enough credit to tel me if they are confused?
Thanks for the constructive criticism though! I do learn from every "lesson". oceanamoon
posted on October 24, 2000 11:54:21 AM
I do all of my billing through Paypal. Most of my bidders, the ones that pay that is, just send their payment throught Paypal and their done. Nice and easy for me and for them. That way when they reply I know what Item to send them because the auction number is in their payment info. The ones that I am getting annoyed with are the ones that don't respond at all.
posted on October 24, 2000 12:10:34 PM
oceanamoon-
... how is it asking buyers to do the sellers bookeeping for them? I mean it actually saves time in the long run for buyers...
Not if I'm responding to my email offline. I have a pre-written response that includes my name, address, eBay id, etc. which I send to sellers to let them know I received their email, and that I'm sending payment. It takes a couple of mouse clicks (maybe 5 seconds) and it goes into my outbasket, to be emailed next time I'm online. To fill out an online form, I have to go online and re-type all this information into whatever format the online service requires.
I'm not aware that my invoices are tracked?
They probably aren't (right now, anyway), but I am not comfortable having my information stored on third party websites. I don't mind the seller having this information on his hard drive, but when it's on a website, there's no telling what the future holds in store. Do you not think that there is a marketer alive who would not love to have the data that is being collected through these websites?
Sellers need info. Re: item # etc. Is that also considered doing the sellers paperwork for them?
Well, not really, I suppose. However, when I provide this information using my pre-made form, I give the seller the information relating to the transaction in a way that is fast and convenient for me. By expecting me to go to an online form to do this, it is like the phone company asking you to write your account number on your check- it is for their benefit, not yours.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that every seller has his own system of record keeping- I don't have a problem with that, but I don't want to have to spend my time trying to get the basic information into the format that he wants, in order to save him from the trouble of doing it himself.
What I ask of my buyers: Mailing address and payment as described in the auction listing. As long as I get those two things, I really don't care in what form the buyer sends them. Okay, I would appreciate a response to my EOA notice, but I don't consider it a necessity.
posted on October 24, 2000 12:18:54 PM
Please make sure that filling out some form on a web site is in your TOS, so I can avoid those auctions.
I will not ever go to some web site and fill out a form for the seller, I send my address and item number to them to let them know I am aware that I won.
Then print out the email with my address and item number to send to the seller. If that's not good enough... oh well other sellers ready to take my money.
But if they send me a form to print out and asked it be returned with payment, I could do that too.
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on October 24, 2000 02:02:37 PM
Life becomes easier for seller if buyer fills in at least enough for a shipping label.
However, it is infuriating as a buyer to be presented with a demand to fill in a form. This is even worse when buyer has to fill in things which could be automated, but which the seller is too lazy to automate.
A suggestion.
-Use phrases like "we would appreciate it if you could fill in your shipping label" at <url>.
-Have the URL include the auction number, don't expect buyer to fill that in. The auction title would be a nice touch, when the URL comes back, it has auction number and title boxes already filled out. Gives buyer a sense that you care about buyer's time.
-Offer a way out. "If this gives you a special problem, let us know". The opposite of this, way offensive, is "this is the only way we will complete this transaction".
-never ask for information unnecessary to complete the transaction.
-a minor point, but those drop down boxes with each of 50 states are a lot more work than just entering, for example, "WY".
posted on October 24, 2000 02:09:45 PM
I was a buyer in a transaction that used Andale. While it wasn't totally unpleasant, it was annoying and I had to go through several pages of clicking & filling out. I agree that sellers should make it clear in their TOS that they use these services so they can be avoided if the buyer so chooses.
oceanamoon...when I need to send in payment (other than Paypal), I always print out the seller's EOA and mail along with payment. I've never had a problem in over 300+ transactions. And Paypal is even easier.
**********************
That's Flunky Gerbiltush to you!
posted on October 24, 2000 02:14:05 PM
I hate those WBN forms too. As a buyer, I won't fill 'em out. As a seller, I won't ask my buyers to fill 'em out.
I have a friendly little e-mail stored in eBud and I add a personal note to repeat customers (and others, as warranted).
My response rate is quite high and I receive only occasional "mystery" payments... four in the last year.
posted on October 24, 2000 02:34:59 PM
Maybe it's more convenient for the seller, but it certainly isn't more convenient for the bidder. Keep in mind that you may not be the only seller with whom the bidder is dealing. Why should the bidder waste his/her time by jumping through different hoops for each seller? I know I wouldn't.
I would think you would want to make it as easy and non-time consuming as possible for your bidders to pay you. Sending them to a place where they have to fill out a form(and possibly be put in yet another databank) is NOT making it easy for them.
I agree-put your EOA terms in your auctions so I'll know who to avoid in the future.
posted on October 24, 2000 02:47:29 PM
I also don't like the billing invoices. I think they take longer for me. I have had to use both Andale and Goto Auction Express Checkout. After this I will just send them a PayPal payment with all the required information. It's faster. I mostly sell on Ebay. I have a short cut on my desktop that I just click on. It contains a short congratulations message. I cut and paste it into an email and fill in the blanks. It is so fast and only takes a minute to make it fit each situation. The last sentence says, "Would you please email me your shipping address, which will also serve as confirmation that you received this message?" Only 2-3 people in two years have sent payment without contacting me first.
Piece of cake for them and for me.
posted on October 24, 2000 03:22:38 PM
Whew, add me to this growing list of on-line form haters and buyers who won't bid on those auctions. I filled out one and that was it for me (just like my first purchase on ebay I bought a money order and that was the last time for that nonsense too. Now and then DH *forgets* and bids on something for which money order is required. HE's the one who gets to go do the money order shuffle.)
I also despise (and I do mean desipise) the PayPal and BillPoint invoices. I refuse to honor these, too. I don't (won't) use BillPoint and no longer use PayPal and they're intrusive and tremendously presumptious IMO.
I also get steamed when sellers don't bother to (a) put the item name AND number in the subject line (What, they think their little piece of junk is the ONLY thing I've bid on lately?) and (b) break out the final total for me (bid amt, postage, insurance).
One buyer did something interesting the other day -- she included her own pressure-sensitive mailing label with her check with the item # written on it as well. I had her package already sealed and addressed, but I humored her and pasted hers over the top of mine. Not a bad idea, really.
For what it's worth, I will not bid on any auctions which use Andale or similar auction management tools that store customer information in their database. (Reading Andale's privacy notice was all it took to convince me to avoid them.) If I make a mistake and bid on one who does, I will not comply with filling out the form. But I intend to avoid bidding on all such auctions.
Ever since the CDNow fiasco, I am trying to avoid letting anyone store my info in a database that's accessible online.
And as a consumer, I am strongly against any tracking of my shopping preferences and habits, and all spam emails, and junk mail. That is what Andale and other sites want your customer's name, address and phone numbers for -- to make up a marketing list that they can use or sell to other marketers.
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
posted on October 24, 2000 03:53:26 PM
As a buyer, I'll respond to the EOA, but I avoid fill in forms. I send payment with info the seller needs.
As a seller, in my EOA, I just request the buyer send me name, shipping info, and auction # with payment. I found my buyers who didn't respond to my email were the fastest payers!
posted on October 24, 2000 04:05:31 PMI HOPE AW IS READING THIS THREAD!
This is my major hang-up with AW's PSM system: FEW, IF ANY, FOLKS WILL GO TO A SITE just to give a seller info that could just as easily handled by emails!
This is the FLAW in STAY-AWAY (from Andale) and in AW's PSM!
posted on October 24, 2000 07:55:56 PM
I will only deal directly with the seller if I am the high bidder in an auction. I WON'T give any information to a third party since it's non of their business and I don't trust them with my personal information. This is the reason I use a web filter when browsing, turn off all scripting, Java, ActiveX, User Persistence and check my Temporary Internet files every evening before turning off my computer. Quite honestly, I think some sellers are inconsiderate of other people's privacy when they use these web based automated third party billing systems like Andale. If you must use this type of system then you should also add the option of just sending you the information in your EOA email. Without that option or without mentioning the use of a third party invoice system in your TOS, I would be forced to back out of the sale. I take my privacy rights very seriously and I wish more sellers would consider this issue when dealing with their buyers.
posted on October 24, 2000 08:20:35 PM
A few weeks ago I started to use AW's System that sent out Winning Bidder Notifications. It was an aboslute nightmare. I received numerous nasty letters asking me why I could not send a personalized letter. Customers sent me payment without a clue to what item it belonged with. I myself could not figure out what all the hoopla was about (then again I was never asked to fill out any forms or sent to a different web-sit). I did however stop using the system within one week and my customers are a lot happier! Thank you all for letting me see the Customers point of view.
.....Cris......
posted on October 24, 2000 08:28:31 PM
I simply edited the WBN the customer gets to have them REply directly to me with there intended method of payment and address.
The url still shows on the bottom of the letter they get from me but I just call that a ps and tell they can use that also.
posted on October 24, 2000 09:04:27 PM
Interesting thread...as a seller I contemplated Andale when it first came out.. that is, until I got one of those invoice forms as a buyer. My first impression was: very nice and neat but incredibly impersonal, and the form-filling is a pain in the patookey. Just this past week I got an AW invoice from another seller... not too big of a deal but again, impersonal and robotic.
Though I never see my customers face to face I think it is important for their first impression to be a big friendly "Hi and congratulations!" as opposed to a third party billing system. If you were to walk into a store and purchase something, wouldn't it leave a warmer impression to have a friendly face say thank you? Perhaps I will be left in the dust if autobot systems become the rage but I like to make first contact personally. Mine is a cut and paste standard schpeel...I just go down the 'ending last day' list and cut and paste, and then print up the list to reference...if it ain't broke, why fix it?
posted on October 24, 2000 09:30:36 PM
Not sure if this is on topic, but is related to buyers ignoring sellers instructions.
Any sellers have a set policy on buyers who send payment with NO information?
We sometimes will receive a check in the mail with no letter or note, no item number or auction site, nothing!
They don't include an email or user id so there is no way to email them or look them up. Just a check in an empty envelope.
It just amazes me that someone would send a payment in the mail and not include ANY information. Really its more surprising they even figured out how to open a checking account.
In the wbn I specifically tell the buyer to include the site, item #, etc. and even suggest that a copy of the email works best.
Would like to hear how other dealers handle those problems.
I just need to vent abit and get this out.. Why is it that some eBay buyers can't just follow what the seller send them? Re: payment etc. I've been using the AW format WBN I think its called- where it give sthem notification of auction ending and a link to go to fill out all info re: thier transaction. I've done it when Ive purchased items myself. Not really a big deal. Sure, it takes afew minutes- but what doesnt these days?! Instead- I get seperate e-mails
Thanks for letting me vent... Jess