posted on November 29, 2000 09:08:16 PM new
I'm new to this message board, and I would appreciate your input. I've been selling on ebay every week for the last 2 years. I've learned lots of great selling techniques and tools over that time, and my sales have steadily improved...
HOWEVER....
Recently, over 50% of my auctions have ended up with non-paying bidders. OVER 50%!!!!Within the last 5-6 weeks, virtually every NPB alert I've filed has solicited a response from the high bidder, saying they're still interested, and sending in the payment.
BUT ONLY ONE ACTUALLY PAID.
I've heard every excuse in the book this past month. Moving, house fire, death in the family, ISP problems, changed email, can't let my wife find out I'm buying this or she'll leave me, sorry I flaked, you name it.
The thing is, these are not just newbies or people with questionable feedback. Some of these are people with higher feedback than my 500+.
If the bidders would just be honest & upfront, we could cancel the transaction and I could relist or offer to next bidder right away. But since I'm honest (& gullible), I wait for the sale to go 30 days past, then file my FV request and post appropriate feedback.
I know I'm venting. Is anybody else having similar problems? It seems like NPB's are running rampant right now. Help!
posted on November 29, 2000 09:18:50 PM new
josu: Don't worry, it aint YOU.
50% is about what I'm pulling in right now.
the last month = 78 DEADBEAT BUYERS!
now, I'm a pretty nice guy, however, I do hope that they all ROT IN HELL!!!
But if you take a poll here, I am sure that some will say it is your fault, since the sellers get blamed for everything.
I just love when I hear the "I got ripped off by a seller" whine, but no sypathy or second though is given to a seller that gets RIPPED OFF 78 times in ONE MONTH!
and ebay protects these fruitcakes, so the best you can do is NEG the hell at em and move on.
posted on November 29, 2000 09:31:50 PM new
Add me to the list! I've had more NPB's in the last 3 weeks than I have in the last 2 years! It sure would help if eBay required buyers to register with THEIR credit card info, and make THEM pay for the listing fees, etc., if they fail to complete the transaction, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
Maybe it's a Y2K thing! I certainly didn't have this problem last year during the holiday season! Just kidding of course about the Y2K)! Has anyone checked the phase of the moon? Is it full now? Of course, that wouldn't cover the last three weeks, so there went that excuse.
Trying to look on the bright side. At least people are bidding on my auctions!
The problems begin when you try and get them to pay up.
Sigh. Life on eBay. Never a dull moment.
Edited to correct typos. Fingers are numb from sending out so many "reminder to pay your seller" emails tonight before I file for FV credits!
posted on November 29, 2000 09:34:13 PM new
Hi Josu!
I know exactly what you mean! I have to file NPB's and FVF's on a daily basis.
Here's what I do.
I state payment is required within 10 days of end of auction in my EOA email AND in my auction.
On the 11th day I file a NPB alert. BUT, I don't relist the item quite yet. I give them another 10 days to pay after sending the reminder. If payment isn't received by the 20th day I file my FVF, relist the item and NEG them. I used to give them months to pay - and I, too - heard excuse after excuse. No more! I think 20 days to pay is long enough. I've found out that since I've started doing it this way, I have to file less FVF's than I used to before when I gave them longer to pay.
posted on November 29, 2000 09:37:44 PM new
Nope not me!
I've been selling nearly 3 years now and I think I've only had 3 NPB total. I just recently received a NEG from a buyer who couldn't get HER paypal to work, after 1 week from close of auction she neg'ed me because she said I wouldn't accept her payment...go figure that one out.
I sent her the item anyway. My good deed for the xmas season!
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edited for packer by packer!!
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Having a BAD HAIR DAY! ...
posted on November 29, 2000 09:47:42 PM new
I have a 10 requirement for payment. On the 11th, I file NPB form. I then relist if payment doesnt arrive within another day or two, but if the person doesnt respond after the NPB, I relist it the next day. Sometimes I neg, sometimes I dont. Depends on the circumstances. My policies have gotten more strict, because I have no choice.
posted on November 29, 2000 10:09:54 PM new
Excuse me for saying this....BUT....I think it is you STRICT sellers that are the ones with all the NPB's problems.
In my TOS I make NO mention of when I expect payment. Ya I might wait 2 weeks for it but so what, at least I'm paid, the item is sold and I can move on to seller more stuff. No relists for me.
Most people have Real Life to deal with as well, and we all deal with our priority's in a different way. My priority may be to get that payment in the mail the day the auction closes, but your priority may be dealing with kids and family first and you will get payment in the mail at your earliest convenience. Most are just happy to know they WON and by golly its going to belong to them.
And really if they want it bad enough the payment goes out hell or high water because the sooner they pay the sooner they get it.
I'm that way!
I'm out there to sell my stuff! How I do it works very well for me.
Maybe I am more patient then most, but I'm very happy with the way I conduct my e-bay business!
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edited for packer by packer!!
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Having a BAD HAIR DAY! ...
posted on November 29, 2000 10:16:58 PM new
Josu, just curious ,What do you usually put up for Auction?? Is this a trend on a particular item or Category that you sell in??
[ edited by docpjw on Nov 29, 2000 10:17 PM ]
posted on November 29, 2000 10:40:20 PM new
Add my name too. I've sent out 5 non-paying bidder alerts in the last month (and the only ones I've ever sent). So far I've filed for FVF refunds on 2 of them, the bidder's were NARU. A third bidder is now NARU too but after doing some investigating, her feedback responses are that her father died. I asked her nicely if she still wanted it and that I would wait a little longer, otherwise I'd let her off the hook. She said she still wants it, we shall see. But I'm not going to be a hard a** with her, benefit of the doubt.
posted on November 29, 2000 10:43:37 PM new
I think it depends on the categories you sell in. Packer & I don't sell cutting edge technology, like you do Pocono.
I average 1 deadbeat per 100 sales, no complaints here. Last one I recall was a seller/buyer with 500+ feedback, she be NARU now for pulling the same stunt with a few other sellers.
posted on November 29, 2000 11:03:01 PM new
Well yes, I suppose what you sell could have ALOT to do with getting the deadbeats.
If you sell new and a lot of it, it would make a difference.
Say if I won a video on auction for $17.00 and then went to WalMart and they had them on sale for $9.98, I guess a person would be inclined to back out of the auction deal.
I personally wouldn't do that, but there are many out there that probably would.
I don't sell new stuff. I sell collectables and hard to find stuff, so when I get the bids they usually really want the item.
Maybe those that are declareing so many NPB's should clarify what you sell to bring this sort of deadbeat response on.
Hey reddeer....You should start a "What do you Sell" thread.
I'd really be interested in knowing what sort of stuff everyone sells.
Sometimes I can guess just by the way they post :-0
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edited for packer by packer!!
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Having a BAD HAIR DAY! ...
posted on November 30, 2000 12:33:59 AM new
I sell toys, have no time limit stated in my auctions.
Deadbeats running about the same as always at a little less than 5%, or one in 20 auctions.
Best percentage are Japanese bidders 0%
worst percentage is Australians 50%
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Don't take life so serious, it ain't nohow permanent.
posted on November 30, 2000 02:34:42 AM new
we usually run about 8% NPB, in the last month it's jumped to 13-15%. people use to contact me most of the time when ebay sent the warning letter, not as often any more. I'm filing more final credits than I ever have had to in the past two years.
Something that has been new is the number of the &%*&% people that have been contacting me after I file the NPB with ebay. My auctions and confirmation letter both state payment is due within 14 day of the auction will be relisted. I usually wait about 21 days to file on an auction never less than 18 days. Every letter I have received from the buyers in the last month have been nasty and confrontational. "why did you have to drag someone else into this" and "I emailed you and told you I could not pay you until the end of the month what's the problem?" and "what the F is your problem you can see by my feedback(a whopping 12 positives) I pay my bills!"
12 whole feedback. This is almost as bad as the people that write after the auction and want to impress on me the fact that they have all positive feedback and they expect that I will not hold their check. I usually look if I get a email like this and I've seen everything from less than 10 to over 500 feedback. I really like when I open a letter and I get a threat that if I hold the check they will neg. me because the check is good and they have such great feedback. I have 4500+ positives 4000 showing and I would never hold that over someone's head.
Anyway I think for some of these people this has become a recreational activity, lets see if we can run up the bid and win this puppy, and they really have no intention of paying.
posted on November 30, 2000 02:38:49 AM new
One possible reason comes to mind. Maybe it's not simply that every bidder has turned into a dirtbag, but rather they are WAY TOO BUSY.
Yes, if you bid on an auction, you should follow through. But some sellers don't want checks, so then you have to schedule a trip to the bank or whereever to get a MO. And you forget.
Or, checks are fine, but you are so busy buying Xmas presents you lose track.
Or, there is some sort of electronic payment involved but PayPal is down or you forget your password or whatever.
I just know that *I* am already reaching scary levels of Holiday Overload, and it's not even December. So if someone emails me that it just slipped away from them, well, OK. A check takes a week to get here, and I can wait that long before sending an ebay reminder.
What bothers me more, to be honest, are how many people haven't replied to my EOC. I need to keep track of that stuff and remember when to send "hello, did you get my email?" notices, and like I say, I'm on Overload already...
posted on November 30, 2000 02:45:41 AM new
kkbclear - you know your point about having them have a CC on file and charging them if they don't pay up would be just the thing, ebay is always looking for new ways to squeeze a few more quarters out of someone.
Better yet ebay could make it so you would never have to file a NPB again. Make it more like a real auction, have the seller pay a small listing fee, then have the buyer pay the closing fees through a buyers premium.
I don't leave neg., but starting this month I plan to send a letter for every FVF I have to file to ebay, something like "can you check to see if this person has gone over the limit on not paying for the auctions they bid on? if so will you please change their status to "not a registered user" so they wont take advantage of anyone else?" I bet if everyone sent a letter like this, easy to do if you use ebud or something like that, they would look harder at how they handle the NPB problems.
posted on November 30, 2000 06:00:18 AM new
Add me to the list of people with increased deadbeat bidders. Way increased! I just sent in 14 NPBs yesterday. I used to have almost no deadbeats, maybe 1/10 of 1%. Forget it now. And Packer, thanks for blaming us Sellers for our NPB problems. I knew SOMEONE would find a way to blame the sellers! Gee, after 14 days I politely email the customer inquiring as to the status of their paypment and gently telling them that yes, I know they have probably been very busy. At 21 days I file an NPB. At 30 or more days (depending on how good the customer has been at stringing me along), I file the FVF. So I guess with my jumping the gun at 30+ days, I am a STRICT seller!!
posted on November 30, 2000 06:28:39 AM new
I'm sorry so many of you are having trouble with bidders. I'm a bidder, and would never try to wriggle out of an auction I've won. I contact the seller the minute the auction is over, and I mail a check to the seller as soon as I get a reply concerning exactly how much I owe once postage and insurance are factored in. I've got modest feedback (75 pos, no negs) but I can tell you without hesitation that the payment for every one of those purchases was mailed on the day the auctions ended.
I can't offer you an explanation for why so many bidders are irresponsible. It could be due to their upbringing; I am a child of the Sixties and, while childless myself, I have seen over the years that some of my contemporaries have taught their children (now adults) that they aren't responsible for anything - that they're never at fault and that someone else always is. Example: when I misbehaved in elementary school my parents sided with the teacher. When a child of one of my peers misbehaved at school the parents sided with the child and threatened a lawsuit. This don't-assume-blame attitude is now popping up everywhere, as you all have seen with some of your bidders. When a child is taught that he or she is faultless, that child, when he becomes an adult, will feel he doesn't have to honor a commitment unless he feels like it. Changing his mind has apparently become a good enough reason to fail to honor a bid. I've had bidder's remorse a few times, but that is my problem, not the seller's, and I always pay for the item and leave positive feedback.
Too, as one of you said, bidding, for some people, has become a game. The abstract, faceless nature of eBay leaves it wide open for this kind of behavior.
posted on November 30, 2000 06:48:25 AM new
I did have a significant problem with deadbeats last August (4 or 5, that's significant to me) but none since that I can think of.
After that I began adding "payment expected within 14 days of auction ending. After that time item may be relisted" to my terms. This seems to have helped.
Same old excuses. One winner emailed saying he was sick and in the hospital but continued bidding all the while, from his hospital bed presumably, paying others, getting feedback, while I waited and waited. It was a 21 dollar item. I finally negged him after 26 days, re-listed it and it brought 7 times that amount the second time. No joke.
Hail deadbeats!
Oh yeah, on his ME page he listed his favorite method of payment as Paypal.
[ edited by loosecannon on Nov 30, 2000 07:00 AM ]
posted on November 30, 2000 07:13:16 AM new
Got no answers for that rise in deadbeats for some of you. Except maybe this "Check Your TOS" perhaps you have language that attracts deadbeats. Maybe you sell items that attracts deadbeats. Then again maybe its just karma and you're getting your due from a past indiscreation.
Who knows but no deadbeats here, in two years of sales. One bad check, and one item that seemed to always get a deadbeat. Simple solution don't sell that item anymore.
posted on November 30, 2000 07:20:18 AM new
SEE! I told you some joker would come along a blame the SELLERs for the actions of DEADBEAT BUYERS!...LMAO...
"Then again maybe its just karma and you're getting your due from a past indiscreation."
Am I in the Twilght Zone here, or what?
Perhaps I'll commision a witch doctor to throw me together some voodoo dolls, and pin the hell outta those DEADBEAT BUYERS.
posted on November 30, 2000 07:41:47 AM new
Thanks everyone for your great feedback. At least I'm comforted by the fact that this is an issue for most of us.
doc - I sell trading cards on ebay, mostly PSA 10's, other graded cards, and mint lots of individual cards.
I'm considering only accepting online payments for my auctions (billpoint, paypal, payplace, bidpay, etc.) since payment is virtually instantaneous, it would give buyers a strict timeframe to pay. Any ideas? Thanks!!
posted on November 30, 2000 07:49:14 AM new
Good Morning Everyone,
Birdwatcher....
It was not my intention to "blame" the SELLERS.
All I'm saying is maybe some of the sellers with all the NPB's problems should re-examine their terms and take into consideration what they sell.
I read alot on these boards where plenty of sellers do have "strict" TOS, auction must be paid for in 3-5-7-10 days. And if its MO only that will certainly add to the anxiety of paying.
To be fair to all of us when these sort of threads are started, you should state the type of merchandize you sell and what your TOS are so we can get the whole picture.
Because for someone such as myself who has very little problems with NPB's have to wonder what YOU are doing differently. And, without you telling us, we are only left to assume.
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edited for packer by packer!!
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Having a BAD HAIR DAY! ...
posted on November 30, 2000 07:51:24 AM new
I agree with kkb on this one. I feel that the bidder should be charged for the listing fee and perhaps a final value penalty fee. I believe ebay does nothing to help prevent non paying bidders, is because they create a large chunk of revenue for ebay. First off we are charged a listing fee regardless of what happens. If we don't file for the NPB request and final value request within the said time, we eat that as well. I've run across quite a few people in the past who are not even aware that ebay will credit the FVF for a deadbeat. If we approach the number 2 bidder two weeks later, most of the time we will get an answer to the affect of not being interested or already got one. So what do we do? Relist of course! More money for ebay. This is one of the reasons why I started posting on Yahoo. I haven't sold that much yet, but out of the 50 or so sales, not one deadbeat. Even if there were, I wouldn't be pulling out my hair, jumping thru hoops to get my refund. Ebay is well aware of problem bidders and has done absolutely nothing about it during its entire extistance. As long as it continues to be a great source of revenue for them, expect nothing to change. I'd suggest sending off letters to ebay requesting refunds of listing fees for auctions with deadbeats. If enough of us complain, who knows. If they do nothing about it, tell them you're off to Yahoo!
posted on November 30, 2000 07:52:03 AM new
josu: I think that would be a grave error on your part.
I still receive about 60% of my payments in the mail, and that would cut my sales, at least in theory, by 60%.
I would think that in YOUR line, it would be even worse, as collectors of such items rarely have any "available" funds LEFT on their credit cards, due to all the "great investments" they're able find, thus maxing out...LOL
I speak from experience by the way.
I collect American Indian, and Military History artifacts.
