posted on November 29, 2000 09:32:35 PM
I posted this in RT, but wanted to do it again here, in case those who dont wander over thataway will see it thisaway
Anyone have info on them? The ones I have are very old, all hand stitched, some silk, some embroidered. I know the long scarf thingy is called an OBI, and I have 3 of those. I also have those "pants" they wore with the kimonos themselves, also 3 pair. My question is, should I list the obi's separately, or all 3 together? And the "pants" (whatever the term is for them), should they go as a lot of the 3, or separately? I have 12 kimonos in all. Im stumped on these, and need assistance with what to do with them. HELP!
posted on November 30, 2000 03:09:03 AM
I sugest you get a book on Japanese costume and read it.
You might have several hundred dollars (or more) of old kimonos, and you have to be able to write an ACCURATE description. If I research and write, it's work and I charge money and you would have to send me the kimonos to look at.
But the women never wore pants (except for the peasant women) so you probably have some men's clothing too.
These are from a movie set, circa 1950's. I found out the name of the "pants" (see RT forum) from HCQ. And you never know, maybe you should get one of these, just for replying (HCQ also)
posted on November 30, 2000 08:46:02 AM
I don't know how OLD they are, but if they ARE old, they wouldn't be several hundrd. They will be tens of THOUSANDS of dollars.
Kimono costs thousands to begin with. If you have pants, you definitely have guys ones like abacaxi says.
Kimono refers to the whole set, so OBI is a part of Kimono. If they are old kimonos, then each one of the OBI must go with one of the Hurisodes (the thing you wear). But OBIs are sold separately, too.
Kimono is very valuable in Japan, and if it is old, it must be some historical ones right? My god....they must be fortune....
You might want to take to some place that gives you the value of the historical things..
posted on November 30, 2000 09:43:04 AM
This site may be helpful, hopefully. It might give you some ideas of what some of the things are called, though probably not how old they are. Most of the site is in English. Good luck with them, they can go very high!
posted on November 30, 2000 10:40:40 AM
<<note: I cross posted this to RT. Also HCQ, I posted something for you re: salwar/kameez there>>
Random un-caffienated thoughts on kimono buying, and selling..... I have a collection of over 100 vintage kimono (some inherited from my grandmother, who was a much more knowledgeable collector than me, alas---I only buy what I like and pay no attention to "book values" at all). I'm not really an expert because I only buy, I don't sell (one of the few categories where I am *just* I buyer).Regarding selling on eBay, I have seen kimono go for very high prices and I have seen them go dirt cheap. There are a lot of homely kimono out there. I do not buy on eBay since I go to kimono shows twice a year where the prices are more standardized and I can feel the merchandise (since I display and wear my kimono, I want them to be ones I really like and enjoy the feel and colors of).
There are two main types of buyers of kimono. One is the collector and wearer (I fall into this category). The other is the fabric artist who dis-assembles the kimono and uses the parts in quilting, wearable art, and other textile arts. The latter group is of course very interested in the kimono pattern and color. There seem to be large numbers of both types of collectors on eBay.
There are a number of different categories that kimonos fall into...the ornate and costly wedding kimonos, the long flutter-sleeved furisode of the unmarried girls, the light and airy yukata (which are my favorites to collect--they often come in lovely vivid patterns and colors of cotton although blue and white patterns are traditional)...men's kimono, haoris, inner robes, outer robes, nemaki (sleeping gowns)....and the list goes on and on. I fully intend to be learning about the kimono and its variations until I am an old, old lady.
Perhaps you could post a picture or give a general idea of the colors that are used in the kimono? That will be a big clue to what type of kimono it is. There are also style clues. Generally, on womens' kimono, the more formal the outfit, the larger the sleeve. Informal kimono tend to have smaller or more tubelike sleeves. Men's sleeves tend to be shorter than womens'( they often end between the elbow and the wrist) and they tend to be in black, blue, quiet stripes, gray, ikat (kasuri) or other patterns (not always, but often). Women did wear some types of pants (mompe)since WW2 according to John Marshall in his books on kimono designs...however these were for working in (agricultural or factory work) and I tend to think they would be neither very interesting for their color or nor in good condition. So it seems likely that your pants are mens' pants. however I would judge more from the color of the item. And there are exceptions to everything I have said.
I do not collect obi at all, so, cannot help much except a few basic thoughts. Ornate or decorative obi are in great demand with fabric artists and can fetch hundreds of dollars. At the shows I go to, there are many people who go just to buy obi (I was almost crushed once just trying to take a look at the obi rack!!) Not so exciting obi will go for less money, of course.
Dating kimono and obi is often difficult. Many people automatically assume their kimono are very old, but since the refinements in this form of fashion were subtle and the basic design remained the same for hundreds of years at a time, it's often hard to say, even for me, a long time collector. There are obvious ones like the horrid printed tropical polyester kimono I have seen (!!!) or the 60s Op-Art prints. But for silk, cotton, rayon---it's often hard to tell without a thorough knowledge of the evolution of the kimono. If these kimono you have are patterned ones, someone like HartCottageQuilts who has a great eye for identifying patterns on textiles would be a good resource for dating, I think. HCQ, can you weigh in on this topic?
I would love to see you post pictures of your kimono, and try to further help you. Good pictures (both longshots and laid in the scanner type pics) will be a must for bringing a good price on your items.
This may be my longest post yet. Somebody stop me!!!
Kim
kimono-addicts anonymous
posted on November 30, 2000 02:48:22 PM
Uh-unh. You know waaaaay more than I do on this topic. As you said about dating kimono style, brightid, dating kimono textiles is subtle. I think I can just about identify modern v. really old I can say with certainty, though, that just because the textile isn't silk doesn't mean it's not as valuable as if it were. HOW the textile was produced/embellished is probably more important.
Oh - and a kimono being handsewn doesn't mean it's "very old". IME, kimono are typically hand-sewn in a running stitch, reinforced with another row of stitching (you'll often see this erroneously referred to in ebay listings as "the basting stitches are still in), and often have wonderful little reinforcements at areas of stress (e.g., an extra layer of lining where your feet would touch your behind as you sat, and little gussets at the underarms). According to a couple sources I can't cite because I read about this a gazillion years ago, truly fine kimono were dismantled at the end of a season and stored, flat and in pieces, until the following year. brightid, is that your understanding?
BTW, average recent high bid for kimono was just about $100, with the high being $375 for a Meiji-era (late 19th c.) men's haori, and a whole lot - listed in the $350-800 range - that closed with noooooo bids at all.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Nov 30, 2000 02:52 PM ]
posted on November 30, 2000 04:03:12 PM
Yes, before the advent of modern cleaning methods kimono were dismantled for washing and re-assembled after they were dry. For storage, some very ornate ones were taken apart and others were folded in a special style. Kimono, being constructed exclusively of rectangular pieces, fold beautifully into small compact packages. There is also a type of rack (looks like the type they use here to hold newspapers in libraries) that they can be partly folded and laid on to reduce the stress of folding. The older kimono whether fancy or everyday were commonly sewed by hand. I find the beautiful stitching to be one of the marvels of this art---looks like a prick-stitch, tiny and even. I have rarely if ever come across a kimono, even one made of the cheapest materials, with sloppy stitching. The standard is amazingly high. A book on kimono I own from the 1930s describes the process and states that many experienced home sewers in Japan could make an ordinary kimono by hand in 1 day (!)
Silk kimono are fantastic of course but I love the bright summer yukata in printed cotton (I have a lovely one in bright blue with yellow stylized peonies, and another in purple with a small red and white motif. they put me in a good mood when i wear them.) The inside lining is often in a contrasting (dare I say clashing?) color (frequently pink!) and keeps the body oils away from the outside cloth and generally saves the outer cloth from wear as HCQ said...sometimes kimono that were becoming worn were cannibalized and used to line the next kimono....when I go to my kimono shows they have all the garments on gigantic racks, and often you will see nothing except a big sea of dark blue or black kimono, and then someone will push into them to look closer and you will see a wonderful flash of bright lining fabric against the dark solid colors.
Anyways, that's all I can think of for the moment, I am currently wearing a kimono (this one is a blue-gray silk with a pattern of white stylized flowers) and I have to go get dressed (!!!) to go to the post office!
