posted on December 10, 2000 06:13:52 AM
I just wanted to let (particularly jewelry) sellers know why I don't like reserves. Right now, I'm am looking for a pendant. A nice one (price range: several hundred to a thousand dollars). Ok, fine - I can do a search on 'pendant'. But the category is *filled* with low-dollar pendants for $9.99. So I end up scanning through the list for anything that's at least at $100.
If you start a $500 pendant at $9.99, odds are good that I'm going to miss it. Be reasonable, if you have a reserve of $500, set the opening bid at $250. Let prospective buyers see that this is a 'nice' item, not your typical junky stuff.
posted on December 10, 2000 09:13:37 AM
I don't buy jewelry but I couldnt agree more. When I first started selling on line 2 years ago, someone told me to start expensive items at $1 with a high reserve. My auctions always ended up closing well below the reserve. Sometimes the high bidder even emailed me thinking he had won. Then I started making all my auctions no reserve and things took off.
When I started buying on line, I learned pretty quickly that it's a waste of time to bid on a reserve item that has a low starting bid and a high value. So if there's a reserve price, I just pass it by without bidding and I suspect a lot of other folks do.
I think reserve auctions are like running a store where every item is marked $1 and you have to take it to the counter where they tell you, "I know it says $1 but we really want $100." I don't think too many customers will be coming back.
posted on December 10, 2000 09:20:33 AM
Yes, and for every "one" of you, there's 10 of the "other" type of bidders that won't even click on an auction that starts at $250, no matter what the value/reserve.
I always use reserves on higher $ items, and they almost always sell first time out.
$9.99 opening bids on $250 items gets the bidding going, more bids = more looky loos, which usually means even more bids.
I could care less what a few pro non reserve people think, I do what works for me, and it's worked well for 3 years.
posted on December 10, 2000 10:19:46 AMI think reserve auctions are like running a store where every item is marked $1 and you have to take it to the counter where they tell you, "I know it says $1 but we really want $100."
I'd take that a step farther and say that non-reserve auctions that start out low are exactly the same. Since there is no way to know how high of a proxy bid the previous bidder made, you could just as easily have said:
I think low opening non-reserve auctions are like running a store where every item is marked $1 and you have to take it to the counter where they tell you, "I know it says $1 but we really want $100."
Either way, there's no way to know how much you would need to bid to win unless you actually make a bid.
posted on December 10, 2000 10:39:18 AM
>>I think low opening non-reserve auctions are like running a store where every item is marked $1 and you have to take it to the counter where they tell you, "I know it says $1 but we really want $100." <<
Not a fair comparison at all. The seller isn't saying "We marked it $1 but we really want $100." The seller would have taken $1 if that is where it ended. Another buyer was willing to pay more. That's how auctions are supposed to work.
Would you go to a live auction where the auctioneer stood there saying, "Do I hear $1, $2, $3" and let the bidding go all the way up to $100 and then said, "Sorry not enough money?" That is a complete waste of time. But bidding on a no reserve auction is not a waste of time. If you lose, then it went for a price you didn't think it was worth. If you win, you are happy. In many reserve auctions, you never even stand a chance of winning unless you bid more than it's worth.
On no reserve auctions, I bid what I think the item is worth. I don't play games adding a few bucks each time I am outbid. If I get outbid, I dont go back because I bid my max. Quite a few times I was lucky enough to win at well below what I was willing to pay. That's the way I feel auctions should work.
If I bid on someone's auction and get outbid, I will email the seller and ask if there are more and I will look out for more auctions from that seller. If a bidder loses because the auction has a high reserve, he won't bother looking at that seller's other auctions because they will all have that reserve. I have noticed that I get lots of repeat bidders and someone who was outbid on one will win the next.
You can't fault the seller if you are outbid. You can if the difference between the opening bid and the reserve is just too much.
So If I'm to understand you correctly, if you were a seller and paid $250.00 for a $500.00 item you would list the item at $9.99 with NO reserve and just sit back? I doubt it! That would be suicidal would it not?
OTOH, (same item) list it for $500.00 with no reserve and noone bids because everybody is looking to buy that $500.00 for $250.00. We're all basically bargain hunters at heart. I know I am, but I do pay higher for items I just can't live without.
posted on December 10, 2000 11:12:26 AM
Suppose you had two auctions to choose from, both by the same seller, with the same shipping terms.
Sceario 1: Gold plated widget, starting bid of $10 (and a hidden reserve of $100), with no bidders at this time.
Scenario 2: Gold plated widget, starting bid of $10 (no reserve), with a bid of $10 showing from a previous bidder, whose proxy bid is $100.
In both cases, you would not have the opportunity to purchase the widget unless you were willing to bid over $100 (10x the current bid), although in either case, there is no way to know that before you bid.
Assuming you bid and don't win, the only difference between the two is that in #1, the seller keeps the item and in #2, another bidder gets it.
Is the fact that the seller keeps the item instead of selling it to someone other than you really important? Either way, you don't win.
posted on December 10, 2000 11:18:51 AM In many reserve auctions, you never even stand a chance of winning unless you bid more than it's worth.
Huh? I'm not sure what your bidding on, but in many of the categories I sell in reserves are the norm. Time & time again I watch items with "no reserve" end up with "no bids", even when that non reserve opening price is well below my reserve. Most bidders seem to sail right past the $100 & up opening bid items, even if the fair market price on eBay is $150-200. Bidders are looking for bargains, and sometimes some of the items I sell can't be sold at bargain/steals/next to nothing prices.
I don't often use reserves, but when I do, they are based on what I paid for the item, and are usually well below what bidders are willing to pay. That's why most of my reserve items hit reserve in the first 48 hrs. I have an item up right now that had an opening bid of $9.99, reserve of $99.00. Reserve was met within 24 hrs, and is now at $107.50 with 14 bids placed. I needed to get at least $99.00 to make this auction worth my while, and had I started it at $99.00, my guess is I would have had everyone waiting until the last day to pounce on it.
I like bidding action, and HIGH opening bids do not usually = lots of action.
On no reserve auctions, I bid what I think the item is worth.
And the reason you can't/won't/don't do the same on a reserve auction ........ is?
Even if you bid & reserve is not met, does the extra 2-3 seconds to place your bid cause you major grief?
Sorry, I don't get it?
I've never had a problem bidding on a reserve auction, I place my max & move on, win or lose.
posted on December 10, 2000 11:33:45 AM
Well, I have tried it all in the past two years. Starting a high-ticket item very low, with high reserve, does not work for me personally, yet appears to work for others. Starting it at 1.00 NO RESERVE works for some, never did for me. Starting high with NO RESERVE has worked at times...but not great. So, I have found that listing at about 1/4th of the reserve seems to
attract bidders who KNOW the merchandise, it's VALUE and have a reasonable expectation of how much it will bring and how much they are WILLING to pay, just as I do.
In the end, we "get what we pay for". I have yet to be disappointed with an expensive item, where I KNOW where I stand, as far as condition. My "booboo" purchases have been inexpensive pieces, with no disclosure as to TRUE condition (just ate another one this week). So it all depends what we each buy, and how reasonable we are about our expectations. Obviously, if I see an 18k necklace starting at 9.99, it would be most unreasonable for me to assume I will get it for that price, so I would set my max at exactly that: my max. If I lose it, tough...I should have bid more.
When doing shows, I always paid high for my inventory...and never had a problem making a living...
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Gosh Shosh!
posted on December 10, 2000 11:42:32 AM
powderblue ..... Funny you should mention that. I bid on an item yesterday that had a starting bid of $3, and a reserve of $9.95.
Go figure?
posted on December 10, 2000 01:37:30 PM
We can go around and around forever and no one is going to change their mind. This is my opinion. The difference is if I am outbid, that's the nature of the game. If it doesn't reach the reserve, it is almost like the seller is playing a childish game: "made you look." I dislike getting offers that say "$50 rebate" and then when you read the small print it's a $5 rebate and up to $50 if you buy ten. That seems a bit dishonest. I dislike seeing an item offered at a certain price but the seller has a secret price that you have to guess in order to win. If you want $300, start at $300 and announce No Reserve. Do you want to be taken as a serious seller or a game player?
If a seller puts out an item with no reserve, the seller is serious about selling it. If it has a reserve, I have often found that the seller is just some joker who is hoping to find a sucker to pay more than retail price. At least that is what I found in the digital camera area. I have at times picked a few items to watch, watched them get bids that would be very acceptable to a real dealer and still not reach the reserve. It is even worse on Yahoo where there are no listing fees.
The same thing applies to bidders. I think that someone who is seriously looking for a $300 item, expects to spend about $300. Someone who will only bid if the item is at $50 is hoping the seller made a mistake. I once tried listing $300 digital cameras with a starting price of $50. I got lots of email from jerks asking if I had more of those $50 cameras for sale. It was a complete waste of time.
I have found that what works best is no reserve and a buy it now price that is a little higher than the starting price. The bidder can win in a moment if he's serious. If he doesn't win, he has no one but himself to blame. And he very often comes back to my next auction.
posted on December 10, 2000 01:50:28 PMyisgood...I am surprised at your statement If a seller puts out an item with no reserve, the seller is serious about selling it. If it has a reserve, I have often found that the seller is just some joker who is hoping to find a sucker to pay more than retail price...
Somehow, I do not see myself as a "Joker" out to rip-off the public...But I also will not put a 2,500.00 lamp up with no reserve, and a 500.00 starting bid....Been there, done that..and it did NOT work
Again, it DOES depend on each seller's inventory...
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posted on December 10, 2000 02:06:38 PM
Hiya Shosh ...... You are oh so right.
And had you started that $2,500 lamp at $2,500, chances are the bidders would be off bidding on one with a reserve, but a lower starting price.
If I list an item that expect to get $2,500 for, I also expect there will be several Donny the Dreamer types, a few Tony the Tightwad types, and a "few" serious bidders that will already know they aren't going to get this piece for $200. Even if the item is selling at select shops & shows for closer to $4,000-$5,000, most bidders on eBay are looking for a deal and will hesitate starting the bidding at $2,500.
posted on December 10, 2000 02:31:31 PM
You just can't please all of the people all of the time. In my case, I sell expensive widgets, average price well over $1,000. I run both reserve and no reserve auctions.
In my reserve auctions I'm not trying to sucker someone into paying some outrageous price, though it would be nice. My widgets have a set market value. Not just Ebay value, but a REAL fair market value. Specifically, I can sell these wholesale in any quantity at say $1500, with retail value of $4000. The point of Ebay is to get more than $1500, so I set a resrve at $1750. Fair enough.
In my experience people who ask what your reserve price is are not looking to buy at a fair price, they're looking to steal an item. I agree with Mrpotatohead, if you're a sincere buyer, just bid baby. Reserve or no reserve, you ultimately have to bid to find out if your maximum price is high enough.
posted on December 10, 2000 02:37:26 PMdear-red...My neither...
I am sure yisgood was just generalizing, based on some disappointments, because her/his posts are always so well thought-out..
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Gosh Shosh!
posted on December 10, 2000 02:40:41 PM
Shosh and reddeer: I obviously have little knowledge of selling speciality and collector's items. What I sell are standard items that can be found all over the Net. Folks who are bidding should know the proper price range for these items. When I see a $300 camera with a reserve, very often the reserve is $350, which is more than retail. To me, this makes the "seller" a joker. He is not a real seller, buying stuff wholesale. He is just some joker buying retail and looking to fool someone into paying more than retail.
Personally, my favorite customer is the one who has done research and knows that the item is worth $300. He is happy to get it from me for $275 and will recommend his friends to me. The customer who doesnt know what it's worth and bids $350 and then charges it back or leaves bad feedback saying "this seller is a crook", I dont want. And the customer who knows it's worth $300, so he's willing to pay $100, I don't want either. And I had plenty of those until I started making my auctions no reserve with a reasonable starting price.
Of course your specialty items require a different approach.
posted on December 10, 2000 02:49:27 PM
Yisgood .... Ok, your comments make perfect sense to me now. Retail & collector items are like apples & oranges. Different game altogether IMO.
posted on December 10, 2000 02:54:37 PM
I knew my favorite yisgood had a reason behind the post.. Thanks for clarifying...And I understand exzactly what you mean...
It reminds me of that small passage in the movie "You've Got Mail", when Joe Fox looks at a rare book and asks if the hand-tinting of the images is what makes it EXPENSIVE..and the knowledgeable clerk replies: No...That's what makes it VALUABLE...
Oh My Gosh! I am now spelling PHONETICALLY!....
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Gosh Shosh!
posted on December 10, 2000 04:12:20 PM
I'm sorry, I must not have made myself clear. I don't mind reserves (and didn't mean for this to turn into a discussion about whether or not reserves are worth while).
My point is that I'd like sellers to set the opening bid at a level (let's say 25% to 50% of their reserve) so that I can differentiate it from the "1 caret sapphire for $9.99!!!" listings. Unfortunately I can't search eBay by price so I'm stuck wading through pages and pages of "gold penguin pendant for $6.99" listings (apologies to anyone selling penguin pendants <grin>.
While I'm at it, here's another thing. If it's gold, put the word "gold" in the description. Don't put "gold" if it's gold-plated, gold-bonded, etc. etc. The karet would be nice also (14K, 18K, etc.). And 'descriptive' words like 'stunning', 'beautiful', etc. don't help either - I do searches (since there's too many items to just browse) and I don't search on 'beautiful' since that would pull up 50 million listings <grin>.
These are all just suggestions from a pretty serious buyer. If something else works for you - great!! But I know I can't bid if I can't find something.
posted on December 10, 2000 04:17:36 PM
Why is it so hard to understand that there is no one right answer. In fact, it's quite possible that in general neither approach is demonstrably preferable.
As with anything, much depends on exactly what you are selling.
But, moreover, some bidders like auctions with low openings and reserves. Some bidders hate reserves. You can't please everyone, and there is no perfect solution.
In fact, if you place any value on your time, you very well may be losing money by trying to figure out which approach will get you a marginally better price.
(By the way, as a total side note, many of these concerns disappear if you sell at Yahoo where there no insertion fees or reserve fees.)
posted on December 10, 2000 07:10:26 PM
If an item is certain to attract at least three serious bidders, low start, no reserve works best. In fact, no-reserve high end items will nearly always have more serious bidders at the end than do those which have a reserve which has not as yet been met with an hour to go.
If an item might attract only two or fewer serious bidders, then a reserve is required to avoid simple bad luck. 0 or 1 serious bidders is a disaster for a high end seller with no reserve.
"Would you go to a live auction where the auctioneer stood there saying, "Do I hear $1, $2, $3" and let the bidding go all the way up to $100 and then said, "Sorry not enough money?" That is a complete waste of time. " AND IT SOUNDS PRETTY STUPID TOO !!!!!
I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT
"I dislike seeing an item offered at a certain price but the seller has a secret price that you have to guess in order to win. If you want $300, start at $300 and announce No Reserve. Do you want to be taken as a serious seller or a game player?" AGAIN I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT TOO.
Has anyone ever been to a live auction where they had reserves on the items being auctioned off ??? OF COURSE YOU HAVEN'T !!!!!
Anyone who sells on any auction site and puts reserves on their items is an idiot ! OR they are just trying to find out what their item is worth.
Sellers who really want to sell their items list with no reserves because they want to sell their items.
Users who list auctions with reserves are playing games ! THATS ALL THERE IS TO IT !!
If you do not like or agree with my statement you must be one of those users that uses reserves !
If you noticed I use the word "User" for people who use reserves because a Seller does not. I cannot call a User who uses reserves a Seller because they are not Sellers. They are Auction Listing Users who sell on occasion but are not really into the whole auction thing as a serious Seller. As stated before. "they are game players".
All of you who use reserves, by all means, keep using them. It is better for me !
With me my customers know exactly where I stand on the deal and will bid on my items in all expectations of getting the item they bid on for the price they bid. NO HIDDEN PRICES. You bid, you buy. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
I sell in every category and I never have, nor will I ever use a reserve. If I have an item worth $200.00 and I know it is selling for around that much, I will list it for $9.99 with no reserve. But thats me, I know some of you are to faint of heart to try that.
posted on December 10, 2000 07:57:06 PMHas anyone ever been to a live auction where they had reserves on the items being auctioned off ??? OF COURSE YOU HAVEN'T !!!!!
You might think so, but you'd be wrong. I have been to many auctions in which there were reserves.
If you do not like or agree with my statement you must be one of those users that uses reserves !
You might think so, but again, you'd be wrong. I don't agree with your statement, and I do not use reserves.
posted on December 10, 2000 08:01:55 PMHas anyone ever been to a live auction where they had reserves on the items being auctioned off ??? OF COURSE YOU HAVEN'T !!!!!...
Plenty of them...And not only have BOUGHT items, but I have also SOLD many...But again, those are rather high-end pieces.
posted on December 10, 2000 08:05:39 PM
Mr.P .... Are you certain? I'm sure the folks at Christie's & Sotheby's start all their items at $9.99 & just let them rip?
posted on December 10, 2000 08:07:47 PM
I would have no problem doing the 9.99 no reserve for a 200.00 thing. But I;ll be danged if I do it for thousand$$$ items...
We all operate differently; some people play the stock market, some don't. Some people travel across country to go to Reno or Vegas. Some live a few hours away and don't go. There is NO right NOR wrong; a discussion is just that: a discussion. Some push their ideas down other's throats; others don't..
******************** Gosh Shosh!
