posted on December 10, 2000 02:08:34 PM
I bought a figurine and pin from the US, with Buy It Now. The auction stated that it would be sent insured in the US, and could be shipped internationally.
I emailed the seller and asked to have it sent Air Mail, so we would get it in time for Christmas, and that I would pay by Billpoint once they knew how much shipping would be.
I was emailed the total, with no questions about shipping options (mea culpa, I suppose, believing she would want to insure it), and went and paid it, straight away.
The parcel arrived, and the outer box was fine. The box with the figurine was inside, cushioned with plastic bags. Fine.. But the pin INSIDE the box was loose, and wrapped only in a small plastic bag, not bubble wrap. When I picked up the figurine, I heard the "clink" of china, and two small parts had been broken off in transit by the loose pin.
I emailed the seller, who said she couldn't believe it had broken, and that I hadn't asked for insurance, and that anyway, she was out of pocket because she hadn't had the parcel weighed before shipping.
She had sent it "small packet, airmail", which does not allow insurance to be purchased anyway. So... what now? To have it professionally repaired is going to cost at least £15 - about half the purchase price, including shipping. Do I try to get a refund, or do I just have to swallow this one, and leave a neg for poor packing? I have asked if we could try to come to some mutual arrangement, so we both don't feel like we lost on it (I am thinking cost of repair, less her loss on postage.) If we send it back, I doubt she will refund the postage, in either direction.
Even if it HAD been insured, would it have been covered, if it was badly packed?
posted on December 10, 2000 02:25:27 PM
I am actually confused here as it sounds like the packageing was very good the figurine was in a plastic bag and in a box of its own then boxed again the small Item the pin was in a smaller bag place in the box no matter if the pin was loose how did this damage the separatly boxed figurine ???
did it jump in the figurines box push or punch through the box the figrine was in your stateing the boxes showed no damage and both Item wraped in plastic ???
I could see if the figurerine and pin were doulble boxed but lose not covered in plastic how this damage would happen Cusioning dont need to be bubble wrap to work large platic bags though costing more make fine packing materal and help protect items from water damage.
NON the less if this damage did happen send a picture of it to the buyer they will more then likely be glad to work out percentage refund to help with repair cost rather then have to Refund buy price orginal shipping and return shipping on this one.
posted on December 10, 2000 02:27:11 PM
IMHO, It would have only taken a piece or two of bubble wrap to prevent what happened. If it happened due to poor packaging I think the seller should definitely refund the price of the figurine. If you want to keep and get it repaired, she should refund at least the cost of the repair after you have sent a picture of the damaged item. I hope you can work this out for both of you.
posted on December 10, 2000 02:39:10 PM
The pin was in the inner box, with the figurine, loose and wrapped only in its small plastic bag. It was not loose in the outer box.
I am sorry for the seller, in that the item is not saleable if I return it, but I am also sorry for us, because we are out of pocket for a Christmas gift that cannot be given.
It is my opinion too, that if she had just wrapped the pin in bubble wrap, I wouldn't be posting this.
I have sent her pics of the damage tonight, with the figurine still in its plastic wrapping, as we didn't unwrap it after hearing the breakage rattling around.
posted on December 10, 2000 02:47:02 PM
Well sound like you did all you can for sure I know if This was a sale I would work out a refund with you Not requireing any return since you proved the damage you would get your money back and keep the Item to fix if you choose or just put in the trash.
posted on December 10, 2000 03:03:11 PM
Had it been insured via the PO, they most likely would have not paid out due to the poor packing. If the "outside" of the parcel is not damaged, they won't pay out on insurance claims, at least not in my experiences.
I would want a FULL refund, including shipping. If they refuse, leave them a negative feedback.
posted on December 10, 2000 03:10:04 PM
BTW - Small Packet Air mail can indeed be insured, at least in Canada, but it must be sent Registered Post, to do so.
posted on December 10, 2000 03:43:35 PM
Well, I just got the email back... zip, she will not offer anything.
A neg on the horizon, for sure. (I hate giving them, and it will be my second.)
edited to add...
Do you think I should contact my credit card company, as I paid by Billpoint? I have managed to obtain a refund for non-shipped goods from an Amazon trader, but never for damaged goods.
mivona
[ edited by mivona on Dec 10, 2000 03:57 PM ]
posted on December 11, 2000 03:08:12 AM
THANK YOU, Reddeer!
I have emailed Billpoint, and await their response. If that doesn't work, I will contact my credit card company direct.
I am so cross now, with her refusal to accept any responsibility for what has happened, I will go for a total refund, rather than the compromise of repair. I would have compromised on being a bit out of pocket, but I really don't want to eat all of this.
I will let you know how it goes. I still haven't posted neg feedback, as I hope she will see reason. I won't do that till I know there is absolutely no hope.
posted on December 11, 2000 04:13:18 AM
I agree with red-deer (which I mostly do ).
If the seller poorly packed the item (and it sure sounds like she did) then you should be made 100% whole - including shipping. There is just no excuse for a seller to poorly pack and cause damage to an item and then not refund completely.
I am happy that red-deer told you about Billpoint and I wish you good luck with it. I think you will be successful because you handled this the right way - you informed the seller, took pictures and tried to work it out with them. You were polite and businesslike and, through no fault of your own, you did not get what you paid for.
posted on December 11, 2000 05:31:22 AM
Is it possible that the answer is, NO!
That the shipper used by by at least 90% of net-numb-skull-sellers, doesn't actually provide cover AT ALL for damage occurring to 'fragile' goods in transit, and
90% of the numb-skulls behind the counter that accept the money to provide this 'nonexistant insurance cover' wouldn't know.
Insurance companies have to make money too you know!
Sure, eBay are mean and tough! but at least they make you money.
Why not a few threads on what dirty rotten low down scoundrells insurance companies realy are;
all they give you is peace of mind,
that is up untill you try to make a claim.
Seller in the end sould be responsible for providing adequate shipping method
posted on December 11, 2000 07:40:51 AM
Hiya Nobs!
Costa ....... I'm not sure where you live, but here's what Canada Post has to say about their Postal Insurance. I'll bold the important portions.
Off the Canada Post website......................
Insurance
Insurance is available from Canada Post to provide compensation for the loss or damage of mailable items if the requirements are met.
In Canada, mailable items can be insured except for the following:
a.Publications mail items;
b.Bank notes and coins;
c.Stocks, bonds, coupons, and other securities negotiable by bearer;
d.Lottery tickets;
e.Jewellery;
f.Precious stones and manufactured precious metals;
g.Canceled or uncanceled postage stamps.
It should be noted that insurance can be purchased in conjunction with other products or services (e.g. COD, Priority Courier, Xpresspost, Expedited Parcel Service, Regular Parcel Service, Registered, Delivery Confirmation).
Fragile and perishable items can be insured for loss but not against damage.
To U.S.A. destinations, insurance:
Can be purchased for all surface and air parcels up to a maximum of $1,000.00;
Cannot be purchased for Lettermail items (Letters, Postcards, Letter Packages, Printed
Papers, Small Packets and Literature for the Blind), except for Registered Mail;
Cannot be purchased for items b) to g) shown in the list of items that cannot be insured in Canada.
To other international destinations, insurance:
Can be purchased for parcel post items up to the maximum identified for the individual
country in the Postal Guide;
Cannot be purchased for Lettermail items (Letters, Postcards, Letter Packages, Printed
Papers, Small Packets and Literature for the Blind) Cannot be purchased for items b) to g) shown in the list of items that cannot be insured in Canada.
Notice they say "Loss or Damage"? Also, with regards to *Fragile*
items. Off their insurance claim forms...............
Fragile or perishable articles are not insured against damage but are insured against loss
A fragile article is any item which by its nature or construction will not withstand normal postal handling however carefully packed.
A pershable article is any matter subject to deteriation due to lenghty
transmission time or exposure to extremes of heat and cold.
In other words, don't ship a case of hollow Ostrich eggs to your uncle in NZ & then expect Canada Post to pay for their damage when some of them arrive broken.
I've been through this with the head honchos at Canada Post many times & they are always more than happy to pay out claims if indeed the item was damaged because of excessive rough handling. Truth is, the majority of claims are due to poor packing on
the sellers end, and for that Canada Post will not reimburse you. Makes
sense to me & the USPS is no different.
posted on December 11, 2000 12:15:56 PM
Makes sense to me, Reddeer. If a parcel is run over by a fork-lift truck, it is clearly the responsibility of the post office. If someone packages badly, so that it cannot survive being tossed across the room, then that is down to the sender.
The box I received was intact on the outside. It had not been crushed. The item was damaged INTERNALLY - inside the packaging, which was substantial enough to survive a normal post office experience. The china did not withstand having a small metal pin clinking around loose, inside the sytrofoam packing that surrounded it. Insurance would not have covered this, nor should it have.
posted on December 12, 2000 05:07:13 PM
The seller was extremely irresponsible putting the pin in the box with the figurine. You should not be out any money.
I agree that you should definitely go through Billpoint to get a complete refund. Obviously, this seller has decided that they can get away with doing this to you. Won't they be surprised when they're contacted by Billpoint and told that they will not be getting away with it.
posted on December 12, 2000 05:35:57 PM
It'd be a bit extreme to leave a neg FB for this. 90% of my items I receive are underpacked but get here fine. Does she claim to be an expert packer? Maybe she was clueless, and needs to be told to be more careful next time.
Personally I've shipped out a few tiny items that were packed nicely yet still broke. It was a tough lesson, but thankfully those people were kind and patient.
I'm guessing your items were more expensive or irreplacable. You should have made clear you wanted insurance beforehand. I do that whenever it's important to me. Then keep a copy of that email in case it comes of need.
Basically I conclude both of you were at fault, and send an email saying you'll pay half the amount to receive a new one, or just be refunded half the amount. The seller needs to chalk it up as a lesson and be another cost of doing business, but I wouldn't neg FB her.
The PO would probably say, if it had insurance, that because it was packaged unacceptably, they wouldn't cover it.
posted on December 12, 2000 05:44:35 PM
quickdraw29... if the seller had agreed to take responsibility for her action (poor packing) then I would agree a neg would not be warranted. But she is completely refusing to make good, even though the damage was her fault. I say a neg is most definitely in line.
posted on December 12, 2000 08:37:31 PM
Quickdraw ....... Surely you jest? The seller made a mistake, yes, they then made a HUGE mistake by not making good on their first mistake. It seems to me this buyer has bent over backwards to try & work this out.
At this point insurance wouldn't mean didley, because the PO would not pay out due to the shoddy packing on the sellers end.
The seller should consider themselves lucky, if all they get out of this is a neg.
posted on December 12, 2000 09:50:26 PM
If it was me, I would and have refunded in full. I think the sellerers packing is to blame, not intentionally, but out of ignorance. I have done such things myself. I just cannot get past the thought that why should a person who orders something I am selling and pays for that in good faith, why should they just be out their money. I would rather be out mine. One thing for certain, she would NEVER make that mistake again. I have found this Christmas Season, many sellers are overworked and short tempered. In this frame of mind, a person is allot quicker to fire back some reply that they otherwise would not say. Maybe you should give it until tomorrow and again approach her, see what happens. I have had a few times this Season, that another Seller and I seemed to be about the "get a contract out on one another". In the morning, it was easily resolved along with apologies on both sides. Whole thing even turned out in mutual Good Feedback.
Bygrace
posted on December 13, 2000 01:14:43 AM
I definitely CC'd it, Joice, but am forwarding it again, to make sure you have it. Perhaps you could confirm if you got it?
As I posted it so late here, Thursday will be earliest I will re-post the details.
We got it this time I'm not sure what happened to the original as I didn't receive it either (moderator@auctionwatch reaches all of us) but it's here now and that's what matters! All we need now is for you to email you name, address & contact telephone number to [email protected].
Because the Seller hasn't been identified, the thread can remain open for the mandatory 24 hour waiting period.
posted on December 14, 2000 04:01:00 AM
Time's up, I reckon...
The auction I won with a "Buy it Now" is at http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=508870517&ed=975192439
This was for a Walt Disney Collector's Club Mickey Mouse figurine with pin. The auction details state that the seller - bjk0714 - would ship internationally, and that "Winning bidder to pay S&H&Insurance of $6.00 in the US."
I bought it with BIN, and emailed her to ask for shipping costs to be determined for shipping to the UK, and that I would pay by Billpoint by return.
I got a Billpoint invoice saying it would be £43 in total, and I paid it immediately, as I wanted to make sure I got this for Christmas.
The parcel arrived in a timely manner, undamaged. I opened it, and found the figurine box cushioned with plastic bags. Very nicely done. Then I opened the figurine box.
The figurine was packaged in styrofoam, with the figurine in a plastic bag. The pin was also in a small plastic bag. When I picked up the figurine, I heard the "chink" of china, and found that Mickey's nose, and the top of Mickey's cane had been broken off, and were lying in the bottom of the bag. Either they were broken on sending, or the pin broke them off in transit, as it was not wrapped in bubble wrap, or secured in any way to the packaging.
I emailed the seller, telling her of the damage. Her response was "I thought the pin was also in bubble wrap. We need to make a claim with the post if it was insured..."
I told her that the pin was not wrapped in bubble wrap, and asked her to check if it was insured. She replied that she checked and it was not insured. "Per your request the item was sent small package air which does not include insurance.. Actually the mailing cost was more than I charged as I did not have it weight first. I cannot beleive it would have broken as I did package it securely. The post is just not handling packages very well..."
I had never specified the shipping method, but simply asked for it to be sent Air Mail. SHE chose the shipping method, and she chose to send it uninsured. I would have paid her the cost quoted to me, and she chose to not have the parcel weighed before sending me the invoice.
I then sent her pictures of the damage, and said that even if I had insurance, it would not have covered poor packing. I pointed out how unhappy I was that I was losing $43 because of the bad packing, plus the cost of repair, and would like to reach some amicable agreement, so we both didn't feel like we lost out.
Her response: "thanks for the photo, I do not understand how this could have happened as Mickey was surrounded by styroform which would protect the nose even if the pin was loose. I am sorry but it is up the the buyer to make sure the item is insured in case something does happen and you did go with small package air... Mickey left here in mint condition. As it looks like a clean break, I am sure the repair can be done very easily..."
I have to say that at this point, I got a bit cross with her, and suggested she try an experiment of putting a Mickey figurine WITH an unwrapped pin in a box, wrap that nicely, and then throw it around the room a dozen times, and figure out what happened.
So... Nothing to do with her. So I looked at Safeharbor. Insurance… perhaps that would cover me? No… It says " (Remember, items damaged during shipment are not covered. Please contact your shipping carrier for information on its reimbursement policy). In this case, no insurance, but even if I had insurance, the parcel arrived beautifully intact. It was not the Post Office's fault.
Then, I was told to contact Billpoint, as they do chargebacks. Great!, I thought… But no… They say: "Most transactions on eBay go smoothly, without any problems at all. If the item you purchased arrives damaged or differs noticeably from what was described by the seller, you should contact the seller first to ensure a fair, peaceful resolution. Often, a simple miscommunication is the main cause of a problem between a buyer and a seller, and most sellers are extremely accommodating in resolving any issues that may have arisen.
If you and the Seller cannot come to a fair and equitable resolution, you can either file a claim through eBay's SafeHarbor Insurance program or contact your credit card issuer directly to dispute the charges.
Should you have any other questions or comments regarding this matter, please contact us via email at [email protected]."
I've tried the communication thing, SafeHarbour don't want to know, so I contacted my credit card company to dispute the charges. The amount is too small for them to dispute. It would have to be either complete non-arrival, or over £50.
I have filed a complaint with Square Trade, and will report back on progress there, but basically, it looks like I am screwed. If the seller is intransigent, there appears to be NOTHING one can do, other than give a neg.
I have also invited the seller here, to try to get her to see reason, but am not holding my breath. I should probably stick to non-breakables, but I know it can be done. I have received a beautifully packaged coffee-pot, and another Disney figurine - PERFECT!
I know this is trifling in the grand scheme of things, but it is just so bloody annoying! There appears to be NO way of not losing, and no protection against a seller's inept packing.
mivona
p.s. If I haven't done the UBB properly for the Ebay link, can someone please tell me how to do it?
[ edited by mivona on Dec 14, 2000 04:09 AM ]
posted on December 14, 2000 04:16:34 AM
Apologies for the length of my post, but I intend to provide a link in my neg feedback to this, if I cannot resolve it satisfactorily. 80 characters is just not enough!
posted on December 14, 2000 06:28:07 AM
IMO, there really is no excuse for either the damaged article or the seller's attitude. The seller is completely at fault here, first of all for not quoting you correct shipping rates WITH insurance or letting you know that the rate quoted was uninsured, and secondly for not using common sense in packing the items. That said, postal insurance wouldn't have covered this damage, since it was due to poor packaging. Please don't give up on buying fragile items--just check the feedback of the seller to see if it's one of their strong points.
Mivona ...... You really can't fault Billpoint on this one, there's no way they can overide a decision by your CC company.
I would continue to pursue this charge back with your CC company, it might be worth a shot? Perhaps if you threatened to close your CC account & go with a company that offers better protection.
I have contacted Square Trade as an other atempt to resolve this, so far without success.
I have also had a response from Billpoint, which suggested I re-contact my CC company, and this time they seem much more accommodating if I put my complaint in writing.
posted on December 22, 2000 01:15:47 PM
I agree that the seller should bend over backwards to make this buyer happy, or at least "whole" again. A cardinal rule in packaging breakable items is that nothing should be able to freely move around inside the box, especially if it's unpadded. I hope you initiate a chargeback AND leave negative feedback. Potential buyers need to know that this seller is not as careful as she should be. As a buyer, I always check the seller's feedback to see if there are any complaints about packaging or shipping delays. If there are any, I don't bid, period.
posted on December 22, 2000 01:32:20 PM
I'd give her a negative ... if the pin had been bubblewrapped or otherwise not been free to bounce around the box and whap Mickey on the nose, it would have survived the shipping.
).
