posted on December 12, 2000 10:15:05 AM
It is aggravating when a seller advises what the shipping cost will be and when the item arrives the (actual) cost is much less, but when a seller (post-sale), without asking, adds cost for insurance when the buyer does not request item be insured, is going too far.
Also, if the seller insures the item and the item is lost by the shipping agency, unless the seller indicates that the insurer is the buyer, the seller would be the claimant and would receive the compensation (Designating the receiver as claimant is an option with UPS, I do not know if the same option is possible with USPO and other shippers.) In that case the buyer would have to rely on the honesty of the seller to be reimbursed for the amount he or she paid the seller, including the shipping charges, once the seller is reimbursed by the shipping agency.
With UPS, I believe the item is insured up to $150.00 without added cost. Therefore, if a seller adds insurance cost for an item valued at less than $150.00 and ships the item via UPS, I consider that to be theft.
Bottom line is; if the buyer chooses to risk the loss and not insure the item, that is the buyer's prerogative. All the seller has to do is request denial of insurance from the buyer and keep the record.
Excessive overcharge for shipping and adding insurance cost that was not requested or is unwarranted and the seller refuses to eliminate the insurance charge, can eventually be reduced by negative feedback.
posted on December 12, 2000 10:23:53 AM
Well sir,
There are more costs associated with auctions than just shipping. If the charge is stated in the auction, you agreed to it when you bid. If you don't want to pay it, dont bid.
posted on December 12, 2000 10:27:43 AM
oh Mikey---don't be a silly goose.
I read and re-read your above paragraph and have absolutely no idea if you are complaining as a seller or as a buyer. Bloviate was a perfect word to use for all the words you typed with no clear meaning as an outcome.
A seller's overhead is not my concern. I am not contributing to charity. I am spending (my) money to purchase an item.
How much I will bid for an item is controlled by me. If I overbid that is my fault.
Shipping, insurance costs are often not listed in the ad, and size of package, and packaged weight of item are generally not indicated in the ad. Therefore, if I send you my ZIP locale, I have to trust that you are stipulating the actual shipping cost that you have determined by certain information I do not have, namely, the packaged weight.
I have never seen a seller state in his or her ad that he or she will charge greater shipping than is required. If you state in your ad that you will charge excessive shipping, that you will charge for insurance regardless I may not want insurance, that the insurance will be in your name, then if I bid I cannot complain, although I would be stupid to do so.
If you list the packaged weight of the item and I am able to personally determine what the actual shipping cost will be but you want more, I now have the necessary information to know what the excess shipping charge is you are seeking.
Too many sellers believe that the buyers must tolerate and abide by all that the seller demands or unscrupulous acts the seller commits. Not true.
posted on December 12, 2000 10:47:32 AM
I have a package 2X not delivered by UPS because seller aelected adult signature required. This on a $25 toy.
yuck, what overkill.
posted on December 12, 2000 10:58:18 AM
Before I bid I will find out how much shipping I will be paying. Hopefully it will be stated in the TOS, if not I will ask. I also assume this does not include insurance unless stated otherwise, so I will know to add 85 cents if I want it insured.
As far as sellers adding costs after the EOA, just say no! "I'm sorry, but insurance was not mentioned in your TOS and I don't feel its necessary for a $3.00 item".
If they want to charge you insurance when shipping UPS, they may just be a new seller and not realize that the item is automatically insured.
I really don't see a problem as long as you maintain a polite and professional correspondence.
posted on December 12, 2000 11:01:43 AMShipping, insurance costs are often not listed in the ad, and size of package, and packaged weight of item are generally not indicated in the ad.
Simple solution Sarge, if that's the case, and the cost of shipping isn't a "fixed" amount, then don't bid.
That does not make sense. It is common practice for sellers to require a prospective bidder to email for said information.
Regarding the shipping cost stated by the seller in response to an inquiry, without knowing the actual packaged weight, the buyer must trust the seller is being accurate.
As for charging for insurance not wanted by the buyer there is no argument, a retailer cannot demand a consumer purchase insurance for an item fully paid for.
posted on December 12, 2000 11:19:25 AM
SGTMIKE,
I understand that from a buyers viewpoint, getting an item for as little as possible is the name of the game. However, as a seller, I have to cover the cost of the item, shipping and the cost of ebays fees and hope to come out a couple bucks ahead. The average profit from my auctions lately have been around $3.
In my auctions, I list the charge for shipping which also covers ebays fees if the item sells near the cost of the item. It is a flat amount. There are no surprises to the buyer after the auction closes. Insurance is automatic due to the Postal service breaking a bunch of my items on me. At least I can ship a new one out and get my money back on the one that got destroyed. If there is no insurance, I'm not covering damage done in transit.
That's my take on it anyway.
posted on December 12, 2000 11:21:18 AMAs for charging for insurance not wanted by the buyer there is no argument, a retailer cannot demand a consumer purchase insurance for an item fully paid for.
Wouldn't it follow them that a buyer cannot demand a refund if said buyer did not ask for or refused Insurance?
posted on December 12, 2000 11:23:09 AMBlondeSense
Regardless the seller (might) back off charging excessive charges, why should I be put in the position of negotiating that I pay "actual" cost once it is determined the seller is overcharging?
What if the seller refuses to charge the actual shipping cost and not charge for insurance after a buyer has won the bid?
Only solution is to pay the charges and submit negative feedback to avoid a "deadbeat" charge.
Arguing a moderation call in the thread in which it takes place is a violation of the CG. If you wish to discuss your moderation, please start a thread in the Moderator's Corner.
Pat
[email protected]
[ edited by pattaylor on Dec 12, 2000 11:29 AM ]
If you state in your ad that the shipping cost is $3.00, the actual shipping cost should be just that or close.
If you are wanting to cover your overhead, you need to indicate that the cost is shipping and handling.
If you state your costs in your ad, then it (is) buyer beware. However, if the buyer does not know the actual package weight and your shipping charge is excessive, that is a horse of a different color.
If the buyer does not want insurance but (you) insure the item and pay the cost, the buyer has no complaint and the buyer suffers the loss and cannot expect reimbursement.
posted on December 12, 2000 11:36:42 AM
sgtmike- believe it or not i actually agree with you on this issue AND on your questioning the moderator's admonishment. there should be no surprises regarding shipping. experienced buyers know roughly what shipping costs should be and whether or not they want insurance. if the seller states a ridiculously high shipping cost it is the bidder's prerogative not to bid. if i see a seller ask for $5.00 shipping and i know that it should be the usual $3.20 it is my decision to bid or not. the moderators seem to have very arbitrary guidelines as to what can and cannot be said. they have allowed anti-religious comments but find the word asinine troublesome.
posted on December 12, 2000 11:46:39 AMMike ....... Are the gurls pickin on ya again?
[i]It is common practice for sellers to require a propsective bidder to email for
said information.[/i]
Really? Not the auctions I bid on?
No info in the ad, no bid. If I really want the item, I email and ask. As far as knowing, or not, if I'm being overcharged by 10 cents due to the fact I don't know the actual weight of said item, BIG deal.
If a seller screws me over, I leave them a neg.
As for charging for insurance not wanted by the buyer there is no argument, a retailer cannot demand a consumer purchase insurance for an item fully paid for.
LOL, ya right. Until the $$$ is in my bank account, the item is still mine & I can demand whatever the hell I want to. If the consumer doesn't like my demands, they can shop elsewhere.
posted on December 12, 2000 11:55:15 AMIf you state in your ad that the shipping cost is $3.00, the actual shipping cost should be just that or close.
Really Mike? Perhaps I should ask to be reimbursed by the hundreds of buyers who paid
$2-6 less, than what the actual shipping charge was? Wonder how well that would fly?
I found out a looooooong time ago that "most" buyers like to know the shipping cost up front. No guessing games, no having to email & ask the numerous questions you're complaining about. "Actual" shipping cost doesn't mean didley do da to most buyers when they see I live in Canada.
I know approx what the cost will be, from one coast to the other, but until I know where the high bidder lives, I have no idea exactly just how much I lost in shipping on this particular item.
And guess what, so far not a single complaint, even though my actual shipping cost, vs the quote in my ad, are usually off by $2-6 on each & every item sold.
posted on December 12, 2000 11:59:14 AM
I agree with the high shipping issues. I sell and buy..but if a seller clearly states what their shipping will be in an auction..then there really is no argument. Bid or don't bid.
I don't overcharge on shipping..sometimes I even eat the costs because I don't charge enough. Shipping is not just the actual postal costs..it is boxes, packing, etc. Most buyers/sellers realize this..we are adults.
If, by some chance, I misweigh an item and overcharge on shipping, I refund the money to the buyer. Using the USPS website to determine shipping costs is not always accurate..but I do try my best to be honest. And I hope most sellers on Ebay do too.
posted on December 12, 2000 12:22:13 PM
I mail NOTHING uninsured over $10 in value no matter who wants to assume responsibility. It's not an option. You don't want it insured, drove over here and pick it up.
I've believed in shipping insurance since the day I was sending an item from the Smithsonian to the Chicago Museum of Natural History and it came back with a Jeep track up the middle of it...
posted on December 12, 2000 12:25:42 PM
What yanked my chain, this time, was I emailed a seller for shipping charges and was told approximately $11.00. Not knowing the actual packaged shipping weight, I had to go by what the seller told me and I considered that the item might be of a density that is heavy, so I bid.
After I won the bid, the seller then emailed me the total cost at which time the shipping cost was increased to $12+ because the seller had added insurance cost without me asking for insurance.
I have since determined that the weight of the item plus package weight requires approximately $6.30 to ship from seller to me, and that the because of the value of the item it is insured at no additional cost by the shipping agency.
posted on December 12, 2000 12:30:50 PM
Much Ado About Nothing...seems to sum it up!
The term shipping does not equate to postage. If you want exact postage to be charged ask the seller first..but quit already with the unilateral decision that shipping means the cost of postage.
As for the insurance...it can be paid to either the sender or the recipient. There is a spot on the insurance claim form to designate who gets the insurance proceeds. Since the recipient is normally the person initiating the claim (because he has to take the damaged item & packaging to the post office in order to file for the insurance), then the buyer/recipeint will normally be the one to decide who gets the proceeds.
Your concern of loss is valid, however your demand is not. As a consumer, you cannot force me to purchase insurance for an item I have "paid-in-full" for.
I suppose if you articulate in your ad that you require insurance and that the buyer must pay the cost, then it is up to the buyer whether or not he or she wants to bid.
Once the buyer pays you, the buyer owns the item. If the buyer does not insure the item and the item is lost or destroyed, it is the buyer's loss, not yours.
