posted on December 17, 2000 10:43:14 AM
If any of you followed the recent I got a Doozy here? thread you will know the details (if not it is either on page 2 or 3). I have gotten the following email and am now a little concerned. Question is: Do you think I am dealing w/ someone a "bit off kilter" and should I send all the emails to Safe Harbor? I have a chainsaw, a splitting maul, 2 baseball bats, and 2 large neighbor dogs to use in case the "cousin" shows up at my door...should I be worried?
Very regrettable. The "lack of trust" is BECAUSE I
trusted you in the first place and saw how you violated
that trust. My proposal of 50% now and 50% later was
sensible and feasible. You refused.
I had to tell my husband what happened. Since my cousin
lives pretty close to you, we will be filing in small
claims court on Wednesday to begin with. What concerns
me MORE than my loss though is how to prevent this
egregious robbery from EVER happening again to other
buyers of yours.
I swear to you on the graves of my parents and on the
souls of my children that you will not EVER EVER get
away with this. I will now devote every ounce of
strength to pursuing this. We've already contacted 6
federal regulatory agencies and requested complaint
report forms. We can only thank Jesus that the
government provides us with ample resources to combat
this type of robberies.
Why are you doing this to us???
> Hi Mrs. XXXX: I did contact the seller of the set of Mason's Books you won
> for $200. He has not even heard from you yet about that sale, and it ended
> quite some time ago. In light of this, and your mis-trust of a long time
> and very well established seller as myself, I must decline your offer. I
> have put my best offer on the table of a no questions asked, complete 100%
> refund including shipping both ways (which 95% of sellers will not do), and
> you have rejected it on all counts. I will repeat....untill I get the item
> back I CANNOT offer a refund of any kind. It is a mystery why you do not
> trust someone w/ my track record on ebay? Why did you trust me enough in
> the first place when you paid for the book not knowing I would ever send it?
> I followed through on that, all I am saying is I will follow through now
> with the same level of professionalism. Hope to hear from you soon, and
> when I get the book in my hands, a full refund will be sent. What you are
> asking me to do is unfair in light of the fact that you trusted me enough to
> pay for the book in the first place. Thanks and best to you, XXXX XXXXX
>
> >It is deeply regrettable that you fail to see how scary
> >it would be for me to risk you taking the book AND the
> >money. WHY DON'T YOU MEET ME HALF WAY? Send 50% via
> >Paypal, I ship the book immediately and you send the
> >other 50%. I DON'T WANT SHIPPING COSTS, because it's not
> >the fault of the Postal Service. I beg you to not let
> >this degenerate into an endless litigious fight and to
> >let reason and compassion prevail. I await your response.
posted on December 17, 2000 11:03:44 AM
Yes, to safeharbor and do not answer any more posts. It is a mistake to reason or argue with drunks or crazies.
posted on December 17, 2000 06:01:43 PM
I've been following this saga since the previous thread. At one point I was going to suggest that you just give the lady her money back and forget about it, since it seemed like a relatively small amount given the amount of aggravation it was causing.
But now I've changed my mind completely. She's a nut! And she's obviously bluffing. Don't give in, and please, please, please let us know how it turns out.
posted on December 17, 2000 07:07:30 PM
Hello Vendosr1,
I passed over the earlier thread as it had already gotten quite long by the time I saw it.
Given the email exchange you posted here to start this thread I will comment however:
By all means contact Safeharbor. But expect eBay to do nothing at this point other than to tell you that it is none of their business as the buyer has broken no ebay rules.
Other than that I suggest you retain every email (in printed form as well, just in case your PC takes a hit). If this nutcase does actually try to go after you in small claims court you will want to be able to present all of the facts.
And if this person should ultimately do something that eBay considers interference with your eBay selling then you will have laid the basis with the earlier emails for their finally taking action.
I doubt if it will come to anything like a court appearance. These whackos are usually bluffing or simply don't realize that their "case" will have no standing in a court and will abandon the idea once they start to really look into what it requires.
posted on December 17, 2000 07:36:27 PM
I followed your other thread about this loony of a buyer--and my first thought was--if she is so hearbroken and broke--how can she afford the filing fee in small claim's court? Also, I was under the impression that such over-emoting and histrionics went out of style with the advent of talking pictures. YES, by all means--send whatever you can to Safeharbor--whether they do anything about it or not--at least it will all be on record. Anyone who goes around swearing on the graves of their parents and the souls of their children over a BOOK where the seller is willing to refund all of their money (and yes, I know..shipping both ways) is definitely a few slices short of a loaf. My department store doesn't refund 50% of my money when I call to tell them that the sweater I purchased doesn't fit--I return it--then I get my full refund. You have my very best wishes--and good luck!
posted on December 17, 2000 11:19:58 PM
Small Claims for a $30 purchase???...This is a TOTAL bluff!!! Stick to your guns, and as others have said...print out (with headers) the entire e-mail sequence, AND send all (again, with headers) to safeharbor AND timesensitive!!!
Keith
I assume full responsibility for my actions, except
the ones that are someone else's fault.
posted on December 18, 2000 05:45:33 AM
vendosr1 -
Keep printouts of the emails, including headers. And if they DO file in small claims court, take the emails with you as proof of your offer to fully refund and their refusal to accept the generous refund. You might (state laws vary) be able to ask the the judge to order the buyer to give you the book (in the condition you shipped it in of course) and you refund the money, and the buyer pay the court costs because they had no reason to sue. Judges get REALLY irked when people waste their time suing instead of taking
Also, check your local laws. The "cousin" might not be able to file in their behalf, as he/she was not the buyer. If so, if the cousin files you can ask to have it thrown out because you had no transaction with the cousin. The buyer probably has to file on their own behalf.
posted on December 18, 2000 07:45:35 AM
This person is clearly irrational..."crazy," though I'm no psychiatrist. This isn't about trying to scam you or get a free book, this is some sort of mental problem being manifested.
By all means, send copies of everything to Safe Harbor, as others have recommended, to create a paper trail "just in case." But I would be willing to bet that you'll never see this in Small Claims Court (which, BTW, is quite cheap in terms of filing fees). As for the "federal regulatory agencies," if she ever does contact them, they will write her off as a looney from the get-go.
Don't respond further, except, perhaps, to write a one-liner saying that you have completed the sale, offered an appropriate refund, and any further contact from her will be ignored (or reported to her ISP). You'll never see that book again, you have the money, end of story. I hope you never gave her an address or phone number or other form of personal contact.
You cannot reason with this person, so don't even try. Just protect yourself from further contact and if she gets TOO weird, report her to her ISP for threatening you. Good luck.
posted on December 18, 2000 08:15:32 AM
I have to agree with the amateur psychoanalysis many posters have offered. I can't decide, though, if this person is to be pilloried or pitied.
There seems to be a measure of intelligence in her letters that stands in contrast to her apparent paranoia. There does not seem to be any real communication. The letters by the seller seem clear and fair to me. The responses appear to focus on something only she sees clearly.
Given available facts, I think she's not all there (a taco short of a combination plate, if you will).
I'd write this one off. Do whatever she asks and get away.
I'd try and snipe the feedback, too, just to gain some measure of satisfaction from the deal.
posted on December 18, 2000 01:36:31 PM
XARDON, many very brilliant people (including some of our most famous writers, artists, and musicians) are (or were) "crazy"...i.e., they manifested some form of mental illness. Being mentally ill doesn't mean you can't communicate with intelligence, but in this case, as you point out, the buyer is communicating about something nobody else can see or understand.
As the emails pile up, they get more and more grandiose and out of proportion to the purported problem. And they always close with a variation of "Why are you doing this to me?" If I were a shrink, I'd say this person has delusions of grandeur and persecution, along with a fairly evident case of paranoia. If you ran into her at the supermarket checkout line, she'd seem perfectly normal. But God forbid you should accidentally take "her" parking space on the way in. She'd almost certainly call the cops, report you to the store manager, and otherwise fly way out of orbit.
I pity her, but there is absolutely nothing the seller can do for her. The best thing the seller CAN do at this point is cut off communication and protect herself against possible unpleasant repercussions...and I don't mean a negative feedback.
posted on December 18, 2000 02:16:08 PM
I concur with sonsie. Why should seller, as xardon suggest, "do whatever [bidder] wants" when none of this is seller's fault? My bet is that even if seller showed up at bidder's doorstep with triple seller's refund in cash, bidder would still feel injured and would still neg. I also don't know how "sniping the feedback" would provide any greater "satisfaction" than merely stating the facts either before OR after bidder leaves hers. As a matter of fact, I'd wait to leave FB until AFTER bidder negged so that I could respond to whatever bizarre charges she decides to make in hers.
posted on December 18, 2000 04:32:18 PMThanks to all for the intelligent and pointed input
This will be my last post on this issue. As expected, SAFE HARBOR gave me the canned email about the "venue" but at least I have a paper trail in place in case the cousin shows up in a black-out windowed Caddy w/ a violin case (more like a basket case! ha!ha!). I awoke today w/ the expected negative, after leaving my glowing positive long ago for paying so quick w/ PayPal. I am vendosr1 on ebay, so I encourage you all to look at the strange comment she left (if you care for sheer entertainment value), and my reply. No more emails today, and I consider the case closed untill she mails the book back.
Thank you all for the advice, now I know how to handle this in the future (as I am SURE there are more lurking in the shrubbery)....Happy Holidays!!!!
posted on December 18, 2000 06:49:11 PM
Interesting to note that the buyer is NARU...
Keith
I assume full responsibility for my actions, except
the ones that are someone else's fault.
posted on December 18, 2000 07:54:00 PM
Your ad stated significant damage to the book's spine. I assume the photo showed the damage (as you indicated in the ad) although the photo is no longer available. She cracked the spine the first time she opened the book. She owns the book. Period. Stop trying to bend over backwards for this nut.
Unless you really enjoy dragging this out, I would block her emails. You tried to work it out (which is more than I would have done, considering your ad stated the book was damaged), and she refused. It's over.
posted on December 18, 2000 09:01:09 PM
Why would that be, Twinsoft? Did the woman not fulfill the sellers TOS? Was the seller not satisfied with the buyer fulfilling her part of the deal, to pay with good funds and in a timely manner? It sounds like you are suggesting that it would have been better for this seller to hold back on feedback even though his TOS was satisfied, and when the deal went south, to leave a retaliatory neg to punish her for the one left him. There's no need to retaliate here. The seller has the opportunity to respond to the negative left him. So what good would it be for sellers to withold feedback until buyer leaves theirs first? Unless you are suggesting using the feedback feature as a "punishment" tool.
KatyD
[ edited by KatyD on Dec 18, 2000 09:02 PM ]
[1]"Did the woman not fulfill the sellers TOS?" IMHO, no she did not, apparently fraud was attempted.
[2]"Was the seller not satisfied with the buyer fulfilling her part of the deal, to pay
with good funds and in a timely manner?" Making timely payment with good funds is only PART of a buyers transaction. Consider NSF checks, fraudulent charge backs, item switching, deliberate item damaging, etc. I'll never understand the "leave feedback upon payment receipt" school of thought. Feedback can wait a while, can't it?
[3]"It sounds like you are suggesting that it would have been better for this seller to
hold back on feedback even though his TOS was satisfied, and when the deal went south, to leave a retaliatory neg to punish her..." It takes time to judge the success of a transaction. Sellers that leave feedback upon payment receipt could possibly harm their own interests, and do disservice to the community by not being able to leave accurate feedback. I would not view a negative feedback comment left by this seller as "retaliatory." It would seem a statement of fact, a warning for other sellers not to do business with this person...
posted on December 18, 2000 09:48:33 PM
Well, I will disagree with you Morgantown.
IMHO, no she did not, apparently fraud was attempted. What "fraud"? I see no fraud here. I see a paranoid buyer, possibly delusionary, maybe needing some "help", but at the least some social skills courses. But certainly not fraud. There is no evidence that she was attempting to return an item that was not the original item, or materially different (other than the cracked spinee, which she admitted doing upfront)from the original item sent to her.
Consider NSF checks, fraudulent charge backs, item switching, deliberate item damaging, etc. The seller here didn't indicate if he held her check for payment, perhaps it was a money order or online credit card but at any rate the payment method isn't in dispute here. As for switching, it doesn't appear that the seller thought this was going to be an issue.
..." It takes time to judge the success of a transaction. Sellers that leave feedback upon payment receipt could possibly harm their own interests, and do disservice to the community by not being able to leave accurate feedback. I would not view a negative feedback comment left by this seller as "retaliatory." It would seem a statement of fact, a warning for other sellers not to do business with this person... How much time? A month? Three months? That's how long auctions will often stay in the database and available for feedback. Yes, it WOULD be retaliatory. The seller was happy with the deal originally. She fulfilled his TOS. You are advocating holding feedback hostage to getting positive feedback from the buyer first. It negates the whole feedback process. And in fact as a buyer, I simply do not leave feedback for sellers who don't leave it for me first. I ALWAYS pay promptly, and in the method as outlined in the TOS. Once my payment is received and item is shipped, I expect the seller to leave me feedback as I have satisfactorily completed MY end of the deal. As a seller, I ALWAYS leave positive feedback upon shipping the item, if the buyer has fulfilled MY TOS. It's that simple.
posted on December 18, 2000 09:51:07 PM
Hello Everyone,
Since the buyer is easily found at this point, I'm going to lock the thread to do some research to see if the CG's were followed regarding invitation etc from the prior thread... if not this thread will remain locked until the CG's have been met.
