posted on December 18, 2000 10:30:12 PM
Another thread got locked just as an interesting topic was opening up. Unfortunately that thread contained specific details of an eBay sale, but I'd like to throw the question out for your opinions. In the meantime, a poster made a comment to me which I'll try to answer shortly.
So, who leaves feedback first, and when? Should sellers leave feedback upon receipt of payment? Or should they wait until the buyer leaves feedback first? If the seller waits, are they holding the feedback "hostage?"
This is a divisive topic and I'd like to hear your input.
posted on December 18, 2000 10:33:54 PM
The seller should leave feedback for the buyer when the buyer completes their part of the deal. I leave feedback when I ship - as the payment has cleared by then and the buyer has fulfilled their obligation to complete the contract. -Rosalinda
TAGnotes - daily email synopsis about the Online Auction Industry http://www.topica.com/lists/tagnotes
posted on December 18, 2000 10:40:20 PM
The seller should leave feedback when the seller is most comfortable doing so. The buyer should leave feedback when the buyer feels most comfortable doing so.
In other words...there is no right time/wrong time. It is up to the individual user to decide if and when they will leave feedback.
posted on December 18, 2000 10:45:18 PM
Back in the days when users could leave any number of feedbacks, it was entirely appropriate to leave a positive feedback comment (praise) when payment arrived. If there was a problem such as a bounced check, feedback could always be ammended. There was no reason to "withhold" feedback.
However, now that only a single feedback per transaction is allowed, sellers should wait until the transaction is FINISHED before leaving feedback. What is meant by "finished?" Well, to put it simply, the transaction is finished when the customer demonstrates their satisfaction by leaving feedback first.
Yes, this puts sellers in a difficult position of having to wait for the buyer, but in general sellers are held to a higher responsibility than buyers. Sellers must remain polite, efficient and businesslike throughout the transaction. Buyers need only send payment on time.
Feedback is not a reward. It is for the benefit of the community. Naturally, we'd all like to leave glowing feedback for all our trading partners, but our responsibility is to the eBay community. That is the whole point of feedback. A lot can go wrong (or right) with a transaction after payment is received.
In the same way, I don't expect customers to leave feedback for me the instant their package arrives. I fully expect a customer to take time, evaluate their purchase, and leave feedback based on their overall experience, including after the sale support.
posted on December 18, 2000 10:54:58 PM
I used to leave feedback immediately, on the day payment arrived. Not anymore. I got weary of newbies and their threats of feedback extortion. Not that I got alot of them, but still, the ones I did get was enough to turn me the other way. Now, I leave feedback when THEY do.
posted on December 19, 2000 12:40:29 AM
As a Seller:
I leave feedback in batches every two weeks or so. Every customer who pays within 14 days of the end of the auction gets a positive, whether they have left me one or not.
As a Buyer.
I leave a positive feedback upon reciept of item if:
1. it arrives in a timely manner
2. it is well packed
3. it is accurately described
4. the seller has already given me a feedback.
Once in a while I'll leave a positive first if I'm REALLY impressed with the seller, but not very often.
--------------
Don't take life so serious, it ain't nohow permanent.
posted on December 19, 2000 01:49:24 AM
I put a note in each packaging and also email when it is shipped. I ask the buyer to let me know when the package arrives. I do get delivery confirmation on each package so I know already. As soon as I hear from the buyer that the package arrived and everything is fine, I leave feedback. They usually follow suit, but not always.
By doing this I have turned possible negs into positives. I have had problems with 2 packages, but by keeping in touch and resolving the issue, both left me positive feedback.
posted on December 19, 2000 04:23:21 AM
I always leave feedback at the time of payment. I feel that the customer has completed their end of the deal by making payment.
It is then up to me to pack it well, ship it in a timely manner, and then wait to see if they reciprocate. Sometimes they don't but
OH WELL....
--Brought to you by MHO Productions--
posted on December 19, 2000 04:29:31 AM
As far as I am concerned my part of the transaction is "Finished" when the seller has my money and if they haven't left feedback for me by then well I just won't be leaving any at all.
Feedback hostage is a good term and this bidder/buyer don't play that game. Only sellers who don't have faith in thier product need to play that game.
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on December 19, 2000 04:38:34 AM
As a seller I leave feedback on receipt of payment and I ask the buyer to return the gesture if they are satified with my performance. As a buyer I leave positive feedback if the seller has lived up to their end of the bargain and has already left feedback for me.
I don't hold feedback hostage as a seller. Sellers that try and hold feedback hostage on me as a buyer are ignorant of how many times I create new accounts for buying.
posted on December 19, 2000 05:37:52 AM
My two cents worth....If a buyer pays with money order or paypal I leave FB asap.I'm going to change me default listings soon to state "I do not take checks" Twice personal checks have come back on my account almost a month after they were deposited.My own FB seems to be running about 70% returned for what I leave.This holds true for my Wifes account also.I recently left FB for a coustomer and when a week went by without him returning it I looked at his FB left,he had about 450FB but he had only left 13 himself.I find this very troubling.
posted on December 19, 2000 05:53:28 AM
As a buyer, I leave feedback for the seller when I have received the item, examined it and found it to reasonably match the auction description.
As a seller, I try to leave feedback as soon as I receive payment. I say try because with PayPal and other instantaneous payment services I might not get to the feedback for a day or so.
posted on December 19, 2000 07:22:04 AM
Short answer- see Amy's post above. ^^^
Long answer- From eBay's Feedback FAQ's:
Q. When should I leave feedback?
A. After completing any transactions on eBay. Your honest feedback shapes the eBay community and specifically impacts the success and behavior of other eBay members. Make your voice heard!
We strongly encourage you to always leave comments about a specific buy or sell transaction within 90 days after the end of the auction. eBay guarantees that all items will be available on our system for at least that period. After 90 days, you can still try to send in feedback, but items may be removed from our database without prior notice. If that happens, you will not be able to leave feedback.
Note that eBay's policy says nothing about who should go first, only that you have a minimum of 90 days to leave a comment. So who goes first? There seems to be as many thoughts on this as there are whether or not to include the cost of materials or handling
in the shipping charge.
The answer is that each seller and buyer has to decide for himself what the best way is, with the understanding that not everybody will agree with them. Everybody's situation is different, and what works well for one person may not work at all for another.
As for me... when I'm selling, I leave feedback when I recieve payment for the auction. When I buy, I leave feedback when I receive the item. My decision is never based on whether or not the other party has left feedback for me, but that's just what works best for me.
The area I buy and sell in does not seem to attract weirdos, so I don't have problems anything like I see posted on these boards, which makes the system I use the most efficient for me.
Ideally, as a seller, it would be nice to get a note from the buyer to let me know they received the item and are happy with it, but only about 1 in 10 do so. If I were to wait to leave feedback, I would have to depend on checking regularly to see if the buyer had left feedback for me, which would be an enormous waste of time.
The situation wouldn't be much different as a buyer, either. I can see where it might be easier for some sellers to do a whole batch of feedback once a month, and if I waited to receive their comment, I'd have to keep checking back before I posted my comment.
Of course, with my method of posting feedback when I receive payment, I'm leaving myself open to a wacko bidder responding in some bizarre fashion, but I know bidders like to get feedback promptly and I figure doing so is worth the (very small, IMO) risk of an inappropriate response from that one in a million nutjob. But that's just me.
It is my thought that a lot of the stress people seem to be having over feedback would be eliminated if they would stop worrying about the other person in the transaction and just leave their comments when they are ready.
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Dec 19, 2000 07:56 AM ]
posted on December 19, 2000 07:24:52 AM
The transaction is not over until:
Payment is received by the seller
seller ships in a timely manner
Item is received by buyer
buyer is satisfied with the product and the complete transaction
Buyer states this satisfaction with a feedback.
The term Feedback Hostage has nothing to do with it!
It would be the same principal if I were to go to a store and buy a product and give them a check that later bounced In the meantime the store owner told all of the other shop keepers on the block other sellers and buyers alike what a wonderful customer I was, (feedback) that I never used my credit card and then tryed to come back to the store and get them to give me the cash for the product, rather then giving the credit on my CC (where it should go in the first place,) that I never tried to return an item that I damaged or tryed to switch with a like product of lesser value, or that I never used the product for a free preview and then decided I changed my mind, leaving the *shop-keeper* to have to restock the product, put it out for sale again, and the other necessary things that have to be redone because of a customers lack of doing good business. This was all done with good feedback by the shopkeeper us, the sellers before the customer committed to his purchase as being satisfactory. In the end, we the sellers have not only done an injustice to ourselves, but to the entire block of shopkeepers when we told them this customer was tops!
(edited because it is too early in the morning to get mad)
[ edited by furkidmom on Dec 19, 2000 07:28 AM ]
posted on December 19, 2000 07:37:55 AM
I agree with amy and with furkidmom. Feedback may be left when and if each party seems inclined to do so. There are no rules or even guidelines for who "should" go first, so there's not point in trying to make any--"should" is a guilt motivator, and I don't need any guilt trips from my fellow Ebayers, thank you. I have family to send me on regular vacations to the Isle of Remorse.
I differ with the opinion that a customer's obligation is over when payment is sent, although I respect the right of others to hold that opinion. I believe that the customer also has an obligation in the transaction to accept delivery of the item and notify the seller that he's done so (via email or feedback). I leave feedback when the customer lets me know that he's got the item. Since I also use DC, I'm experimenting with leaving feedback just before the transactions are deleted from the database for customers who "disappear" after shipment and fail to respond to a polite inquiry about receipt. The phrase "good communication" is NOT included in those feedbacks. At best they get "Quick payment, thanks for buying".
As a buyer, I leave feedback as soon as I receive the item. If I'm especially impressed with the seller's service, I'll also write them a short email.
posted on December 19, 2000 08:02:02 AM
furkidmom-
Payment is received by the seller
seller ships in a timely manner
Item is received by buyer
buyer is satisfied with the product and the complete transaction
Buyer states this satisfaction with an email to seller.
If you were the seller, would you leave feedback in the above transaction?
posted on December 19, 2000 08:14:04 AM
I don't get this business of holding feedback "hostage." It's okay for a buyer to hold a seller's feedback hostage, but not vice-versa? The seller should provide after the sale service, but "owes" the buyer feedback at a certain point during the deal? I think that feedback should be the last step in the transaction, once everyone is (hopefully) satisfied.
posted on December 19, 2000 08:19:05 AM
I have been a registered user at eBay since 1996 & a unregistered user since late 1995.
I don't worry about feedback left to me. If the item as described, feedback is left. I have yet to receive an item that I have not left positive feedback for the seller.
I have had sellers to go out of their way to ship an Item, I wanted packed to my specification, they were compensated for doing this.
I have one negitive feedback. That feedback I gave to myself.
posted on December 19, 2000 08:28:31 AM
mrpotatohead> YES! The buyer has given his indication in writing that he is satisfied, and that is all I, as a seller want, is my customer to be reasonable, conduct themselves in a businesslike manner and let me know they are satisfied, email or otherwise! Then if I leave feedback, and they leave a bad one, I can at least have the opportunity to say...*email proof of buyer satisfaction, Do not understand feedback* which would be truthful, to the point and self explanatory.
posted on December 19, 2000 08:36:47 AM
Fair enough, then.
I was just concerned with the last line, which you had originally wriiten to indicate that the buyer left feedback first. If a seller required that a buyer leave feedback first, even though he had already indicated his satisfaction via email, I would consider that as holding the feedback hostage.
posted on December 19, 2000 08:43:44 AM
I state in my FAQ template that we leave feedback after you are satisfied with your transaction. If there are returns involved or misunderstandings I do not want the feedback slamming me for something I have corrected in all fairness. So, once the "customer" has left feedback, we then leave feedback as well. My honest opinion is that feedback is eBay's loneliest problem. BIN is there nemesis..
posted on December 19, 2000 08:48:58 AM
I like the seller to leave me a positive when s/he gets my payment and ships. Then when I get the item, have opened it up and made sure all is well, I'll leave the positive back to the seller. It's better than sending e-mails. But I don't really care who leaves first and if I am happy with transaction I'll leave the positive for the seller even if I haven't gotten one first.
Feedback is not that big of a deal in my mind and it's best to just be relaxed about it.
________
I never had one, and I didn't want one, and I don't, so now I do...
posted on December 19, 2000 08:57:21 AM
mrpotatohead> "If a seller required that a buyer leave feedback first, even though he had already indicated his satisfaction via email, I would consider that as holding the feedback hostage." I totally agree! And empires??? I have to also agree!!
posted on December 19, 2000 06:27:39 PM
As a buyer only, the only thing that ticks me off are sellers who state they will leave feedback when I have left feedback.
I always leave feedback when the item arrives (I also send email). I just don't like that feeling of being extored. I usually just don't buy from that seller any more.
posted on December 19, 2000 08:33:48 PM
Before ebay changed to transactional feedback, we left feedback upon payment receipt. If there were any problems that
developed later, it was easy to go in a leave an updated feedback. After the change in feedback policy we continued to leave
feedback upon payment receipt. However, it was costing us money, and we stopped. Now feedback is left only for buyers that leave feedback for us.
We have a generous return policy - items can be returned for any reason. The only question would be, who pays return shipping. Our error, we pay. Buyer remorse, they pay. When we were leaving feedback upon payment receipt, a surprising number of buyers were writing with "problems." We are fussy and thorough with item descriptions [an eye piece is used on glass, pottery, and porcelain] consequently, I'd inform the customer that they were free to return the item. If the problem was due to internal error, item cost plus two way shipping would be reimbursed. Last year only one return was made, but there
were many demands for partial refunds. We did indeed pay off on a few of those claims; even though, it is against our
posted TOS.
Some people might as well come right out and said "give me a ten dollar rebate, or I'll leave you negative feedback!" As noted
above, and for the sanctity of our feedback, some demands were paid. Why? I believe, for best possible sales it's paramount to protect one's feedback rating [even though the present system sucks]. Several negatives at the top of a feedback list could greatly discourage sales. I do not believe that MOST potential bidders read the actual feedback comments. Rather, they just look at the score box. Even if they read the actual comment [neg.], it could easily be a lie [even with a response]. Many bidders would be turned off. Bottom line - we paid out some extortion money! Pay ten bucks, instead of loosing five-hundred in sales that week...
Since we changed our feedback policy. Not a single bidder has written to ask for an adjustment!
The above described is one reason why we do not leave feedback upon payment receipt, or first. There are others as well. NSF checks, item switching, etc.
posted on December 20, 2000 02:36:40 AM
When I sell, I leave feedback when funds have been received/secured.
When I buy, I leave feedback when item has been received - IF the seller has already left feedback for me. If they haven't I know that feedback must not be worth their time so it certaintly isn't worth my time.
