posted on December 19, 2000 08:59:37 PM new
Hi all.
I have a situation and just as soon as I can type this and post it I will be sending the url to my bidder.
I have a Canadian bidder who won one of my auctions. I sent an email stating that if you are in the US please send 66.99. After he had sent an email asking the total including insurance.
This bidder never sent a reply to my email stating if you are a US bidder.
He just emailed that the 70.00 was on its way.
When I sent the item it was 14.00 for the cheapest route available. MORE than the bidder sent. (it was two carefully packed and very heavy pieces of art glass)
The bidder has since said he has not recieved the item. I asked him to wait it out a bit longer.
The bidder says still no items. I say fine, give it one more week and if it does not show up I will refund and I said that it was regrettable that he did not send enough for insurance but will refund anyway because I dont want an unhappy customer.
At this point the bidder sends me his first email to me. "Please advice me as to where to mail the money order for my purchases, and the total amount including the shipping/insurance." and says that that is his proof he paid insurance???????
I'm sorry, I was going to refund and that refund was going to hurt right now at Christmas, but damn it I refund with or without insurance.This seems like my chain is being pulled tho and I am not sure of what to do next.
I will wait the bidders reply to this thread and then I will be happy to post every email sent and received because I have every one of them. I'm working tomorrow so if bidder replies before then I will be on tomorrow night.
posted on December 19, 2000 09:12:42 PM new
It was not a conflict until the bidder sent the email today that he first sent to me asking total. My initial email gave the shipping with insurance for US bidders but was disregarded, the bidder chose his price and sent it. Disregarding my email entirely.
I offered refund anyway and this would not be an issue if this bidder had not twisted this tonight, and so frankly I have to wonder if the bidder did not receive the item after all.
posted on December 19, 2000 09:21:07 PM new
Kitsch - Maybe he didn't notice the part about "if you're in the US", since you didn't say "if outside US email me, etc.....
You did say the total you gave him included insurance, even though that was for US bidders only so he's kinda technically right.
When you got his first email, did he give you an address to which he wanted the package mailed? I guess a lot would depend on when you found out the bidder was in Canada.
Anyway, I would refund because I think this is simply a misunderstanding with some miscommunication, with no ulterior motive on either side.
Hope that I didn't offend you, that's just my opinion - that's all.
posted on December 19, 2000 09:33:26 PM new
Ouch, tough call. I'd like to be more supportive but I think you kind of blew it. The buyer may have misunderstood your email, but you knew very well that his address was in Canada. You should have simply told him, "shipping and insurance to Canada is $XX.XX."
Now you're way out on a limb and your only defense is "he didn't include enough for insurance." I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that unless he explicitly accepted responsibility, it's your job to make sure the package arrives. You should have either held the item, or shelled out for insurance yourself.
Sorry, I know this isn't what you wanted to hear. Maybe someone else can shed some positive light.
(P.S. You have my sympathy. This seems to happen to me a lot also with Canadian customers. They only send enough for domestic delivery.)
posted on December 19, 2000 09:40:16 PM new
70 bucks is alot to eat and by the way the customer twisted this in the last email even after I said I would refund, I feel a bit used if you'll pardon the expression.
3. Send your personal info (name, address and phone) to [email protected].
Once you have followed the above criteria and 24 hours has lapsed you can name the bidder if you need to for reference. I know you know to leave out any identifying personal info if you post emails.
posted on December 19, 2000 09:48:45 PM new
Well, at some point before mailing the package you knew the bidder was in Canada, no? At that point you could have either held the package, or added the extra insurance yourself. This happens to me all the time with Canadian customers! Grrr.
(By the way, I think I misread your statement as "damned if I'll refund..." Duh.)
posted on December 19, 2000 09:51:10 PM new
Kitsch1
I try to be very patient and understanding with my customers, but what part of "IF YOU LIVE IN THE US" is so hard to understand???? You were waaaaay nicer than I would have been, because I would have not sent it until I received the complete amount. See what happens when you're nice?
. I suspect that you are getting a fast one pulled on you....JMO
posted on December 19, 2000 09:57:01 PM new
Hi kitsch1, How long has it been since you mailed the package? Maybe it is being held up at Customs or is slower because of the holiday season or the weather.
How many feedback does the buyer have? Maybe he is too new to understand about the different shipping rates and insurance and just assumes whatever?
$70 is a lot to refund at anytime, but would hurt more at this time of the year. Hopefully the package is just delayed and it all works out okay for you.
posted on December 19, 2000 10:05:07 PM new
I'm not trying to be a pain in the **** here, but this is something I simply can't figure out.
Why do people post, asking for opinions, if they are going to get upset when others offer opinions that differ from the poster's views on the subject?
Kitsch, I could be wrong, (usually am), but your response to Twinsoft to "give you a break" seems to indicate that you are at least irritated. I'm just trying to understand why that is, as I've seen this happen with several posters in various forums on AW.
posted on December 19, 2000 10:10:06 PM new
Hey Kel ....... Now don't go blaming us crazy Canucks.
I agree with Shaani, it's quite possible that Canada Customs has caused the delay, and/or the Holiday season.
For now I would hold off on the refund.
IMO you should have held onto the goods until the total amount of funds due were sent. I ship Overseas, and have never had a problem like this? If I don't get the high bidders full name & shipping address via email, they don't get the goods, simple as that. I make it very clear in my EOA email that the shipping amount I quote in my auctions is for North America only, and if they don't live in NA, I need to take the item to the PO to get a shipping quote.
Same thing with Billpoint users, want an invoice, sure, first I need to know your shipping address so I can make sure the shipping charge is correct. Overseas buyers need a quote from the PO.
You might want to call Canada Post @ 1-800-267-1177 & have them check to see if the item did indeed arrive at the high bidders local PO. They would most likely have a record of this due to the fact that
there should be a GST [Goods & Services Tax] due on an item of that amount. When an item arrives in Canada where there's GST due, there's a paper trail that should be able to be followed to the letter carrier on the high
bidders route, as they [high bidder] need to sign for the parcel on the letter carriers manifest. Canada Post will need the name, address & Postal Code of the high bidder when you phone.
posted on December 19, 2000 10:11:24 PM new
One analysis, an opinion.
Seller let this one get off track along about: "I said that it was regrettable that he did not send enough for insurance but will refund anyway because I dont want an unhappy customer."
I'm with you kitsch1 on being responsible.
But why oh why would you inject something into a very postive statement which would make the bidder feel bad, ->hostile.
If the payment was insufficient, then don't ship. But once you decide to ship, that part's over, and the customer is a first class customer. Now it's time to get the thing there. If it doesn't get there, it's time to accept all responsibility.
We want buyer to find the thing laying around the house, because that's probably where it really is. We want buyer on our side. Buyer is tense; the thing isn't there, and buyer doesn't know us well enough to trust us. The last thing we want to do is to insult buyer's payment. Buyer will assume that things are going wrong. Buyer will get defensive. Buyer will stop thinking about where the thing might be, and start preparing a defense to what he thinks is building up to an excuse to flake out.
Be cool. "Unfortunately, sometimes it just takes this long. If you don't receive it by <date>, please email back".
Also, I've had far more packages returned from Canada when the customer declines to pay Canada taxes than have been lost.
posted on December 20, 2000 02:52:46 AM new
Jada, Kitschy and I have always been at each other's throats. "Give me a break" is probably the nicest thing she's ever said to me! Hi, Kel!
posted on December 20, 2000 03:08:29 AM new
kitsch1,
This is a plain and simple, open and shut case.
YOU SCREWED UP !! THAT IS ALL THERE IS TO IT.
Your EOA said send payment of $xx.xx if you are in the U.S.
You bidder was in Canada and did not send sufficient amount.
What you were supposed to do was email your bidder after you recieved payment and tell them,
"Your payment was insufficient. You are in Canada and shipping is more. Please send the remainding $xx.xx so I can ship your item to you. I will not ship this item until full payment has been made."
This is what you were supposed to do, BUT YOU DID NOT.
You brought this entire problem upon yourself the minute you decided to ship the item knowing full well the bidder did not send sufficient payment.
You have learned a lesson here that will cost you $70.00
Next time DO NOT send an item to a customer if they did not send sufficient payment.
posted on December 20, 2000 05:02:45 AM new
Sorry have to agree the time to take dcontrol was when the payment arrived. You should have held and e-mailed Payment is not sufficient for shipping outside US. $69.99 is for US only. Canada costs me $xxxxx. Would you please send the balance $xxxx?
If you wanted to be the good guy and send it anyway you could have still asked for the balance and took a chance on whether they would send it,or you could have eaten the difference, but I would never have sent the package naked.
posted on December 20, 2000 05:38:23 AM new
The best advice you got here was from reddeer.
Why rush to refund before trying to determine IF the package is indeed lost? You gave no dates. When did you mail it?
This is a bad time of year; slow delivery and possible misdirection of packages. Call the Canadian Post and try to track it down.
In the US, you must wait 2 weeks before filing a lost mail form. I would think that unless at leat 4 weeks have passed since mailing, I would wait a bit on the refund.
You are right to refund, but don't do it until you are SURE it's gone.
Sorry this happened to you. Seventy bucks would put me in a hole, too. Good luck, kel.
posted on December 20, 2000 05:45:30 AM new
I think sending a package that has not been fully paid for is just the beginning of the trouble. To start with, it wasn't insured, and you said yourself it was "heavy art glass", so it is fragile as well, a fact known to both you and the buyer.
Second, when you ship to buyers who underpay, you are reinforcing a bad habit on the buyers part. A buyer who would intentionally send a shorted payment should send up a red flag to a seller. It is a good clue that this buyer is not fully honest, and if they would short the payment, what else would they do that is dishonest.
If a seller expects to be treated as a Professional Business, then being Professional is part of the deal. Find me any online or B&M Business that will ship before the item is fully paid for, or that would ship without covering their own back ends through Insurance on expensive fragile items.
posted on December 20, 2000 07:03:09 AM newkitsch, since you've already stated your willingness to send a refund, I think you're certainly entitled to assure yourself that the buyer's claim is legitimate first.
I'd inform the buyer that you'll be happy to send his money back AFTER he fills out the appropriate USPS form that traces lost/misdirected packages (I don't have the form number handy right now, sorry).
If he's legit, he won't have a problem doing so. If he's scamming (as I suspect), he just might hesitate before committing postal fraud.
posted on December 20, 2000 03:43:41 PM new
I think Reddeer's suggestion to call Canada post is your best bet. Since there would have been tax due they would have a record of whether or not the tax was paid. It's quite likely that the package is still in customs.
I agree with the other poster who suggested that the problem began when you shipped the item without sufficient payment. I've had similar problems in the past with Canadian bidders and in each case held shipment until they sent the proper shipping amount.
I cleared up that problem by required bidders to provide a shipping address to confirm their purchase. If they don't include the shipping address I keep emailing them til they do.
Love Canadians to death, but I only have this problem with our northern neighbors.
posted on December 20, 2000 05:56:01 PM new
Kel ...... If you have a problem connecting from your side of the border, send me an email & I'll call from up here in Winter Wonderland.
posted on December 30, 2000 02:58:13 PM new
Update
My bidder emailed me that the package arrived unharmed.
I want to adress the question of insurance. I have sold glass on ebay for about 3 years now. I package as if it's going to be the football in the Superbowl most especially if it is going overseas. I have NEVER had an item break. I insure most times BUT the insurance only covers a package in the USA. The customer did not pay for insurance and if it indeed was lost I was going to pay whether the customer paid for it or not which he didnt.
posted on December 30, 2000 03:41:31 PM new
Thank Goodness that the package arrived unharmed. Wonderful news! A valuable lesson learned, too, I'll bet.
. I suspect that you are getting a fast one pulled on you....JMO
