posted on December 20, 2000 02:18:48 AM new
Last week I ran an auction for a collector's item. Auctioned it for a friend, put reserve of $250 on it. Bidding was slow all week, and the item closed at $158 without a winner.
So as soon as the auction ended, I started getting emails. "Wasn't able to bid, how much do you want for it?" "I really want it, let's make a deal, etc." I kind of expected this to happen, but I'm not quite sure why. Are bidders reluctant to deal through eBay any more? Now that I think about it, it seems bidders were waiting like buzzards for the auction to end, just so they could drive the price down a little. (??)
I also put up a new copy of Adobe Photoshop 4.0, an item that always sells very well. Minimum bid $1. Well, it just sat there for days, and all during that time I was getting emails, "How much do you want for it, can you sell it to me right now?" But nobody bid! There's two days left in the auction and the bidding is only at $9. I've never seen this happen before.
Do you use reserves a lot? (I don't.) What's going on with bidders? Don't they want to buy through eBay any more, or is everyone trying to strike a deal under the table? Help me out because I am clueless here.
posted on December 20, 2000 06:28:02 AM new
I think it's one of the effects of "Buy It Now." I've had a ton of similar requests since BIN came on board.
posted on December 20, 2000 06:53:16 AM new
People do this to us all the time. It's amazing how many people can "miss" an auction that is up for a week, but "find" it 2 minutes after it ends. I think some people are shopping completed auctions looking for "deals".
I have had a couple of people offer $1.00 for stuff I had listed for 9.99, and I tell them I'll toss it in the trash before I bother to pack and ship something for a dollar.
I've had some deals where people offer more than the asking price also. These I normaly sell to.
posted on December 20, 2000 07:05:14 AM new
Hi twinsoft, it happened to me quite frequently in certain areas, pottery, porcelain, and art mainly for me. I think it's a standard buying practice of some bidders in that area. I can only think some of the other sellers must be willing to sell at a lower price than they listed the item for. The bidders have admitted to watching the ad for the entire length of the auction and then trying to bargain the price down after it ends without a bid or without meeting the reserve. I always start my no reserve auctions at the minimum price I'm willing to sell it for. If it doesnt' get the minimum bid, I would rather not sell.
I sometimes put in my ad that I do not negotiate prices after the auction ends and do not sell to people who have not bid on the item. I prefer not to sell outside of Ebay's system.
Once 3 people contacted me about the same item within half an hour of an auction ending, all offering a lower price "because it hadn't sold". I sent them all the same email back with an explanation of why I use Ebay's system, let them know other potential buyers were also offering to buy after the auction ended, and ... the best part was I told them since there was so much demand for the item I was going to relist it for a higher starting price. I did that, and guess what - I got $32 more for the item than I was asking for it the first time. They should have bought it the first time around, it was a better deal!
posted on December 20, 2000 07:19:34 AM new
Some people (like me) do not have time to browse all the listings, so I just look at "ending today". Many times there will be four or five pages that appear current in the index, but are closed when you go to the item. If I saw something closed that did not get bids, and I was really interested, I would contact the seller. If it had bids (but didn't hit reserve), I probably wouldn't (figuring the seller would contact the high bidder if they were to entertain a negotiation).
I have been high bidder several times this month, but not hit reserve. In these cases, some sellers have contacted me to ask about my interest in the item, telling me the reserve, or asking for offers.
Since some of these people have a pretty specific idea of how much they want, I wish they would go to BIN.
posted on December 20, 2000 07:23:10 AM new
That also happens to me - people contacting me after the auction closes saying they missed a chance to bid and what kind of a deal can I make them.
I respond with a very politely worded email that says, between the words "why didn't you place a bid when you saw the listing idiot instead of waiting". I also offer the item, if I still have it, for whatever I expected to get for it.
In my case, and probably twinsoft's as well, the kind of stuff I sell is subject to early ending by the eBay idiots for whatever twisted reason they can come up with (usually some nonsense about copyright infringement) so it is extra important for my bidders to bid early.
twinsoft - is your Adobe PhotoShop auction still open? Give me a 'hint' as to which listing is yours ... thanks
Oops - eBay just kicked me off for listing STUDIO PRODUCED video tapes that I have received directly from various studios as reviewer's copies!!. I have an arrangement with a couple of studios to review tv pilot eps, and I am allowed to dispose of these review tapes any way I want (including selling them on eBay as do many other). The ebay SafeHarbour kids (brats, actually) cited copyright infringement!! I suspect my ratting them out yesterday to my friends at the MPAA for real copyright infringement listings on their venue that they don't want to deal with may have prompted a nasty response from the MPAA to their legal department. Talk about a low blow by the eBay kids to get even
Another edit I have already received 11 emails from people who told me they were looking at my nine items but never got a chance to bid before eBay ended them. All of these items were up for 6 days (eBay pulled them on the 7th and final day ... kinda like something the Lord did on the 7th day!!), and all of them had a least 60 "looks".
Folks - if you see something you want, BID EARLY!!
[ edited by RB on Dec 20, 2000 07:25 AM ]
[ edited by RB on Dec 20, 2000 08:21 AM ]
[ edited by RB on Dec 20, 2000 08:30 AM ]
posted on December 20, 2000 10:12:35 AM new
Sorry this is happening so much twin!
Related but slightly OT, on Dec 5, I sent a payment for an itrm I was unable to bid on though I tried two days in a row: 2 consecutive 3hr-power outages in my street.
Seller gave me her address but no shipping cost and had to go out of town. I figured out my cost, added a bit to my the bid, which was grossly under-priced...
Received an Email from seller on Dec 10, telling me Money Order had arrived and she would send item "in a few days", as she did not know "which way to turn at this time".???? then no more communication from her.
Emailed a couple more times asking when she planned on shipping: No answer
The moral of the story: Buying outside of an auction may be hazardous to your health, and your pocket book...and of course, no recourse.... It will be a long, long time before I do do that again....
********************
posted on December 20, 2000 11:21:40 AM new
Whenever I end up being high-bidder an an auction that failed to meet reserve, I don't immediately delete the eBay EOA notice. I hang onto it for a few days because I often receive post-auction offers from the seller.
Sometimes the offers are attractive and a deal is struck. They've gone well so far. In fact, I like this type of transaction. It's more personal than the average eBay deal. I enjoy the negotiating and the non-boilerplate banter that often accompanies such interactions.
I've never really thought to criticize an offer. It could be a fee avoidance scam, I suppose, or maybe it's just a desire to move an item that's been gathering dust too long.
posted on December 20, 2000 01:44:13 PM new
RB, sorry to hear about that. The auction I was referring to was an auction for an old Coca-Cola clock. There's no issue of copyright at all. And yes, I wonder how an auction can sit there on its duff for 10 days, and then suddenly when it's over suddenly bidders notice it.
My point about the other auction, the Photoshop auction, was that the minimum bid was $1, and nobody bid on it at all, but several bidders emailed me about buying it outright. If they wanted to buy it, at least they could have placed a bid. (There was no BIN on that item.)
Shosh, wow that's too bad. I really prefer to deal through eBay, if only for the customer's protection. Maybe I'm just an old dog that doesn't like new tricks. I've gotten an offer of $200 which I'm considering, or I may just put the thing up for $1 with no reserve. I'm selling it for a friend and I thought his reserve of $250 was a little high. Also, I've already spent $10 in listing fees and at this point I'd like to MOVE the item.
posted on December 20, 2000 02:49:08 PM new
In your case, dear twin, sure...go ahead...I'll vouch for you... I apologize for putting a damper on things...
It was just a fluke (spelling???) that I happened to fall on a bad seller...But all is not lost...I might still receive my piece, and if not, it's only a thing...I won't stop believing in people over a thing which I can replace. Of course, I would sing to a different tune had the item cost several hundreds...
********************
posted on December 20, 2000 10:34:34 PM new
I once bought a $50 item where the seller let me have it even though I hadn't met reserve. I sent the money certified mail so she had to sign for it. I was still a little nervous about it but I got my item just fine.
twin- I get the same thing all the time. Once I listed a stack of Vogue Italia Magazines, which are a surefire moneymaker, at an opening bid of $1.00. Then right after I listed them I realized I had miss-spelled the key words in the title, so I went to revise. Sure enough, Ebay crashed right as I was revising, so then every time I went back to revise thereafter the revisions wouldn't take. I ended the auction early, and luckily for me it had no bids. Well, ALL WEEK people kept emailing me about those bleeping magazines! It was on my nerves!!!! I am so glad that TPTB at Ebay just thought of that marvelous link to relisted items. That made me so happy!!!! Maybe it will put an end to some of these annoying scenarios.
I really don't mind dealing off of Ebay though. I have negotiated deals with many sellers off of Ebay. What I generally do is email the seller after an item I want ends with no bids, requesting that they email me if they ever relist the item at a lower price. Usually they'll just try to make a deal with me right then, and if they do I'm all for it.
Another thing I occasionally do if I get outbid on a box lot of toys or whatever is, I email the winner asking about the specific items in the lot that I was interested in. I have found that people are often bidding against me wanting a DIFFERENT item out of the lot than I wanted, and if that is the case they are usually happy to sell me the item I want. I have bought several real treasures this way.
posted on December 21, 2000 10:33:48 AM new
I consider eBay's "protection" to be worth spit, and feedback to be worth just a bit more for a buyer. However, there are lots of bidders who always want something for nothing. It's amazing how many of these folks who you never hear from again if you tell them it is relisted.
Bidding has dropped way off overall, maybe 20%, in the past year.
You considered this idea? Set up a listing of "First Bid Wins" style ads on Yahoo, all of them running 10 days with two automatic relists, all of them set for the prices you quote to the scavenger emails.
Then, set up a template email with the URL to the Yahoo seller list containing those ads and email it to everyone who emails YOU. Obviously (to me) those folks are looking for a discount based on your avoiding eBay fees, combined with the chance you'll be thinking you overpriced the item with the start price. Why not just in effect say "Here's what I'll sell for with no fees to pay. You might get it for less on eBay but you'll have to participate in the bidding or at least snipe it."
posted on December 21, 2000 06:59:43 PM new
Well, a day after I post this thread, eBay comes up with a new prohibition against this very kind of sale. I'm going to start charging eBay if they keep stealing my ideas. Guess this deal is NIXED!! (heh, heh ... bite me, eBay!)
posted on December 22, 2000 09:24:35 AM new
I get a lot of these types of emails lately. I tell them that the posted price IS my minimum and they can pay that or forget it! Of course, I don't actually word it that way, but that's how I feel. The ones that email me wanting to know if I'll sell it for less, I don't even respond to. I work on a very small profit margin, I'm interested in selling a lot of items rather than a few overpriced items. This system works fine for me, keeps me busy and I make good money in the long haul.
posted on December 23, 2000 07:46:49 AM new
Just got tthis email this morning:
"I just noticed your eBay video items you put for auction on eBay are no
longer there. I was planning to bid on them. They were supposed to expire on
12/21. Is there a way I can still get them from you? Please let me know."
posted on December 23, 2000 09:26:48 AM new
SELL SELL SELL !! What difference does it make if the sale is transacted through eBay or not ?
If you're a seller it doesn't make any difference - strike your deal and SELL !!!
Are you all brainwashed into thinking that the only way to move items is through an eBay auction ?
Other than provide exposure - which you pay for, eBay does nothing to protect the seller. A successful auction FVF only provides each party the right to post FB, and FB offers nominal prevention, but little else. The insurance does little for big ticket items. If you use a credit card you're protected as a buyer in an off-eBay transaction anyway.
Anything I have is for sale regardless if it's through the eBay bid process or not. It is just a matter of price and terms. eBay has no authority or business in communications for commerce between me and anyone else outside their site.
posted on December 23, 2000 06:42:55 PM new
yes, twin, a timely topic if ever there was one. I guess the biggest question now is, how many people will continue making deals after the auctions end since this type of trading is now "against the rules".
I am usually one to go by the book, but I think this new set of rules is totally ridiculous. I don't know if I will even try to do it their way because wheelin' and dealin' is just too much a part of the way I do things as both a buyer and a seller. (BTW, just today I got an item that I bought from a seller after she relisted twice with no bids. I LOVE the item and the seller was very happy to sell it to me. Kooky? NO!!! It was a win-win situation for everyone but Ebay, but the FVF would only have been 50¢ so what's the big bleeping deal?)
Pythoon- great post, thanks for the advice- that is a fantastic way of handling things.
posted on December 23, 2000 06:44:56 PM new
BTW Twin- did you end up getting a decent price for your Photoshop auction? Just wondering, and hoping like heck for your sake that there were snipers waiting in the wings...
reamond- I second that, but Ebay apparently doesn't agree with us.
posted on December 23, 2000 08:10:20 PM new
The Photoshop auction ended up doing very well, as the bids came in during the last couple of days. It did better than I expected, but the winner was a (0) feedback so we'll wait and see what happens.
(Or perhaps I should leave feedback already, since he made such a nice offer!)
Thanks for asking.
If I had set a BIN price, it probably would have been less than the final value.
And that old Coca-Cola clock? Well, somebody offered $200 and said they'd pay cash and pick it up today. Of course, I declined their very generous offer (cough, cough!). Heck, do I care that Christmas is only two days away?
Signed,
The eBay Grinch
[ edited by twinsoft on Dec 23, 2000 08:14 PM ]
posted on December 26, 2000 09:48:16 PM new
Went to the boyfriend's family's house for dinner tonight for a small holiday celebration. I hadn't got a gift yet for his sister, so I picked a thing out of my inventory that I thought she'd like and wrapped it up to give to her. Unfortunately, I'd listed it already (it didn't have any bids though), so I ended the auction early.
Came home after dinner & checked my email...FOUR messages asking if I'd sell that item at a lower price since it ended without bids.
How are Ebay's new rules ever going to fly? It seems I don't even have to try too hard to make deals these days- the bidders are doing all the work!!
posted on December 27, 2000 10:11:56 AM new
CAgrrl- The main thing is that the email messages were between you and your potential customers, and none of eBay's business.
posted on December 27, 2000 10:22:44 AM new
As we mentioned in another thread on this topic, even if ebay did require contact via some sort of ebay form, the only way ebay can enforce no outside sales would be to monitor each and every message sent. That would be censorship, open a whole world of legal troubles for ebay and probably spell the demise of ebay.
posted on December 27, 2000 10:29:24 AM new
artsnflies ........ I suggest you read the post I just left on the other thread. Just as they do now, Safe Harbor will act on complaints sent to them via their users.
posted on December 27, 2000 10:37:33 AM new
artsnflies: "That would be censorship, open a whole world of legal troubles for ebay and probably spell the demise of ebay."
ONLY if enough people complain loudly about it. I have found over the past several months posting here that many, many eBayers are willing to 'talk the talk' but not 'walk the walk'. eBay makes their own rules, which is fair (it's their site), but many of their rules conflict with real life law. In those cases, such as what the law says about their interfering with your private business (right to make a living), if eBay does not adjust their policy, they could end up in trouble.
The point of the exercise, at least in my mind, is to eliminate or reduce the number of crooks that play on eBay. In order to do this, SafeHarbour are going to have to start doing some real investigations into complaints instead of what they do now ...
posted on December 27, 2000 11:08:37 AM new
RB - We hear you. You're probably right.
Just also expect a rash of harressment from people if ebay does provide some sort of easy spam reporting tool.
"Spam" is one of those things that doesn't matter if it's true or not. Just the accusation is enough to be found guilty. And we all know how much due dilegnece Safe Harbor does when investigating complaints.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/artsnflies/
posted on December 27, 2000 12:04:03 PM new
I think eBay's position is pretty simple. eBay is prohibiting members from using email addresses obtained THROUGH EBAY for conducting off-site business. You agree to that when you use the site, and if you can't follow eBay's rules, then they are within their rights to terminate your membership. I don't know HOW they are going to enforce these rules though; in particular, do they really expect sellers to rat out their own customers?
While eBay may be within their rights, I don't think their claims of "only a venue" will stand any more because they are actively prohibiting and preventing members from doing business. It's one thing to limit use of email addresses. It's quite another to attempt to censor messages between members.
posted on December 27, 2000 04:16:18 PM new
In particular, do they really expect sellers to rat out their own customers?
Annoying as it may be to get some of those after-auction emails, I wouldn't dream of "ratting out" my customers, and I have a feeling the large majority of sellers feel the same way. It would be suicidal!!!! C'Mon, Ebay, do you really think any of us are going to run our businesses that way? Dream on.
The main thing is that the email messages were between you and your potential customers, and none of eBay's business.
Reamond, I think so, and you think so, but apparently Ebay doesn't think so anymore. Since it's ebay's site to start with it makes everything so confusing!!!!
While eBay may be within their rights, I don't think their claims of "only a venue" will stand any more because they are actively prohibiting and preventing members from doing business. It's one thing to limit use of email addresses. It's quite another to attempt to censor messages between members.
Yes, I agree with this! good point!
Interesting how this will all play out.
truer words were never spoken. I for one am on the edge of my chair.
