posted on December 24, 2000 06:29:41 PM
I am kind of new on Ebay, have been selling for the last 6 months. Every month I am getting this $275-300 Ebay fees + Paypal fees. To be honest, listing my items + packaging + shipping + answering e-mails take off lots of my free time. On top of that, I also work full time. I can tell you one thing, I am not making any money at all! How do you all survive on Ebay? Listing your item(s) at low low price? or... I am not sure if want to continuing selling on Ebay. Yahoo is totally dead, no one ever bid on my auctions on there. Not sure if I can afford Ebay any more. Any advice will be appreicated.
posted on December 24, 2000 06:53:08 PM
I dont know what your selling on ebay that you would have $275 or $300 in ebay fees and not be makeing money.
I list well over 150 to 300 Items a month fairly good sales most my winning bid are in the $2.50 to $5.00 range and my Ebay fees run me from $12 to $24 per month .
I spend some 2 to 5 hours 7 days a week listing checking on my auction sending email and packageing.
I am surviveing very well My guess is your listing to many Items with high starting bid that dont sell or your useing ebay High priced features to much.
posted on December 24, 2000 07:10:19 PM
Unless you are selling in an unusual category (real estate, autos) or are "featuring" items, your ebay fees average 8% of your gross. To rack up ebay fees of $250, you'd have to be pulling in total high bids of $3,125/month. If you're doing that by selling 1,000 $3 items, you should've automated your system long ago. If you're selling three $1,000 items and not pulling a reasonable profit, you're paying too much for your merchandise.
posted on December 24, 2000 07:46:41 PMdman - I'm missing something here. If you list "from 150 to 300 items a month", your listing fees alone should run $37.50 to $75.00 per month (at 25 cents per listing). Let alone FVF.
posted on December 24, 2000 07:50:36 PM
Barbarake:
Dman3 might be running dutch auctions, where the listing fee is based upon the dollar value of what you are listing. If you list 100 widgets and 1.00 each, your listing fee is $2.00.
posted on December 24, 2000 08:47:38 PM
Lots of relists and credits for the sale second time around.
I get my listing to 20 or 25 at the frist of the month and I add 3 to 7 new or relisted item every 2 or 3 days 24/7 Depending on how many active bids I have over that period of time so I am listing and spending less when sales are down and add more when bidding is up.
I dont much worry about the day or hour auctions end. how it ends up working out is I am up later on weekend and by mid month I have auctions ending every day of the week and one ending nearly every hour of the day or night.
Not counting billpoint fees that might total from .70 to $4 I have never had listing fees from ebay in the last 7 month over $31 average is $24 give or take a few cents.
In 7 months as well I have found 3 web sites offering ebay free listing days and one that paid me Money to just to register to list through them.
posted on December 24, 2000 10:02:57 PM
Well, I must be doing something wrong here. Everyone is making money except me. I sell mostly jewelries and clothings. I find the listing fee + the fee after the auction kills me. Yes, I did make some money, but not $3000 a month.
posted on December 25, 2000 06:07:03 AMbarbarake, you can easily sell 300 items per month with fees of only $300, as long as (a) your opening bid is less than $9.99 and (b) your high bid per item isn't over $15.
As you noted, 300 items x $.25 listing fee = $75. If each item sells for $15, FVF per item is $.75 ($15 x 5%). $.75 x 300 = $225.
posted on December 25, 2000 06:20:56 AM
Use robots to relist and save time. We list 100-300 per week with two stores as well. Still, our fees are high compared to the workload involoved. Consistency is good. Variety really helps. This year the goal is to raise our profit margins! Fuel bills are crazy.
posted on December 25, 2000 07:20:11 AM
Clearly your prices are too low.
Generally with the type of goods you are selling your selling price should be 3x your cost. A profitable business could be run with 2x but you must control other costs very tightly with margins that low. Anything less than 2x is simply not profitable.
posted on December 25, 2000 04:27:41 PM
Absolutely.
If I can't net 300% on an item, in my book that item was a "learning experience", not a sale. I aim for 450% but usually average about 350%/month.
A seller really has to sit down and figure what an average item costs to "process", which includes everything from the time spent "hunting/gathering", listing, emails, packing and shipping, to the cost of ISP, camera and shipping materials, and an allowance for reprocessing when somebody deadbeats. I figure I have to net an absolute minimum of $6/item to cover these "processing" costs. Even if somebody GIVES a widget to me, if I can't make at least that, it's not worth my time.
posted on December 26, 2000 01:17:01 AM
So if I can acquire an item for say $125, and sell it for say $299.. That's not a good deal? since I am not making 3x profit..???
All that & a Bag of Chips Too!!
posted on December 26, 2000 05:54:13 AM
Apparently you missed this line:
I figure I have to net an absolute minimum of $6/item to cover these "processing" costs.
If one's typical sale were in the hundreds of dollars, yes, $299 on a $125 item would be a good deal. However, my experience is that a good chunk of sellers work in the <$75 range and many in the <$25 range, in which case 300% would be a minimum. The less expensive hte item, the higher the gross markup must be.
Seller acquires item for $5. Seller lists item at his cost, $5. Item sells for $15. Total ebay fees are $.75. Seller's net profit is $9.25, right? Wrong. Seller must also deduct costs for computer, ISP, camera, gas, packing materials including personalized labels/marketing pieces, and a % of his anticipated losses on deadbeats/refunds/no-sales.
What's left is his "profit" - actually, his wages for selling that item. Even assuming he's got NONE of these costs, he should expect to be paid for his time acquiring/listing/emailing/shipping the item, right? If somehow he can do all that in half an hour, he's still making just $18.50/hour before taxes - $37K/year, assuming he keeps up the same pace 8/5/50. Reasonable money, but hardly a king's ransom.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Dec 26, 2000 05:56 AM ]
posted on December 26, 2000 06:38:43 AMHartCottageQuilts You said "barbarake, you can easily sell 300 items per month with fees of only $300, as long as (a) your opening bid is less than $9.99 and (b) your high bid per item isn't over $15. "
I fully agree with you. My question was that dman said "I list well over 150 to 300 Items a month fairly good sales most my winning bid are in the $2.50 to $5.00 range and my Ebay fees run me from $12 to $24 per month ."
I would understand $300/month, not $12-$24/month.
kidsfeet - Even if dman is running exclusively dutch auctions, he still has to pay FVF fees. He says he run 150-300 auctions per month at an average $2.50 - $5.00 ending price. Let's use 200 items at $3.00 each. The FVF alone would be 15 cents each (5% of $3.00) times 200 (.15 x 200) equals $30. This doesn't count listing fees at all.
This is still significantly more than $12-$24/month. I still don't get it.
posted on December 26, 2000 08:20:01 AM
Obviously I was distracted, barbarake. You're absolutely right.
But look at this. According to ebay, Dutch insertion fees are "based upon the opening value or minimum bid of the item you list for sale multiplied by the quantity of items you offer. The maximum insertion fee for any Dutch auction is $2.00."
So no matter whether dman lists 5 or 300 of the same item starting at $.25 or $9.99, it would appear his total listing fee for that auction is $2.
Ebay says that "The final value is the lowest successful bid, multiplied by the quantity of items you sold." IOW, Dutch FVFs are figured on the TOTAL sales for that auction, not each indivdual item sold. If in that one dutch auction he sells 300 items at $3 for total sales of $900, his FVF on that entire auction would be $23.12 - for total ebay fees of $25.12.
For me, the headache of dealing with a dutch auction - and the risk of purchasing identical merchandise in bulk - far outweighs any potential gain. But obviously some folks do well at this.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Dec 26, 2000 08:23 AM ]
posted on December 26, 2000 08:25:37 AM
Give Yahoo another try. It doesn't cost you anything, but it is a different market and you will have to experiment a little.
I also decided that Ebay and Paypal were the only ones making money off my auctions. So it was either quit, or eliminate some expense. Yahoo did that for me. Go to their forum and read some of the suggestions about how and what to list. Try 'first bid wins ' auctions for your run of the mill, or new items.
Save Ebay for the truly unusual collectible, or the item that you think may go higher than you would ask as a starting bid.
Yahoo is not perfect. They get a lot of nuts, but at least when they don't pay, you don't have to go to the trouble of FVF. And I have met some really great, consistent buyers who now search my sales on a regular basis. It can work, and has been more profitable for me than Ebay...and less frustrating!
posted on December 26, 2000 08:55:36 AM
What is the average markup? 40%, 50%, or more. If 50% or more you must be in an non competetive market. Otherwise, my gues is more like a 30% markup is acceptable. I can't see how customers on ebay would survive the sale otherwise, unless these are handmade goods.
posted on December 26, 2000 12:32:12 PMa 30% markup is acceptable
Unles you're talking big-ticket items, you must be kidding.
A 30% markup means you buy an item for $10 and sell it for $13.50. Subtract your costs (see my posts above) and you're left - if you're working hard and smart - with maybe $2 for all your labor, from acquiring to posting to shipping. Obviously your net-per-item increases with the cost of the item - but so does the risk involved with the greater $ outlay per item required of the seller.
I can't see how customers on ebay would survive the sale otherwise, unless these are handmade goods.
Can you restate this? I can't figure out what you mean.
posted on December 26, 2000 12:46:12 PM
HI Chenillec -
I'll leave it to the pros to crunch the numbers, as they know better than I do. But I also work fulltime, plus I have two small children, so you bet I understand the challenges of making a go of ebay as a moonlighting job.
Are you having trouble because you buy fairly pricey clothes and jewelry and sell on ebay for not much more? hence ending up with high fees but not much profit?
Is it possible to buy a jewel for $100 and sell on ebay for $300-$1000? Beats me.
My bag is secondhand books, and so you can imagine that my prices are lots lower than that. I pay ebay less than $100 unless I"ve had a real good month.
I don't know how much money you are hoping to make - maybe my profits would seem peanuts to you. But between ebay and selling on half.com and Amazon, I have made enough to owe Uncle Sam a pretty darn respectable cut!
posted on December 26, 2000 02:22:14 PM
If your question is "How do you make enough on eBay to fully support yourself?" I believe the answer in the vast majority of cases is "I don't".
It is my experience that most sellers do not rely on eBay income as the sole means of fully meeting all their expenses. Many have other income from jobs, retirement/disability, SO or family, investments or businesses.
Others that do depend on eBay for a substancial amount of their needed income usually have added other venues, Web sites and a mix of other income sources.
If you question is "How do you make any money selling on eBay" then the answer is more complex.
The market place will pretty much set the price an item will sell for, on average, over a period of time. You have to acquire that item and present it to the market place in a way that makes you a profit.
Everyone has knowledge, experience, skills , tools, connections, time, judgement, taste, movitation and a dozen other factors that enter into the equation.
Depending on what you have, what you are willing to acquire/learn and how well you use them plus the whims of the market place you will experience some result.
Beyond the usual basic business reasons, many people do not succeed because they find they prefer the the security of employment over the endless problems of small businesses online with down image sites, venues or listing programs etc.
Unless you are able to deal with a wide range of secondary issues(read thru the last 200 threads to gain a sense of the problems that arise)then survival is very difficult and somewhat independent of any net profit you might realize per transaction.
Long term success is as much what you like and what you want as what buy and sell.
posted on December 26, 2000 02:50:58 PM
Is it possible to solely survive off ebaY income alone ?.
The answer is yes you can but you have be able to adjust with the market.Take the down times,late payments and all other things associated with a small business and you can do it.
It has been my familys source of income for 2 years.We have cleared about 55,000 a year on it and was able to secure a mortgage on our house on ebaY income only.
However we are quitting it full time as I cannot stand the boredom of sitting in front of a computer all day long etc.
Plus you feel like you are married to the computer.I could probably still do it just fine as a full time business but want to try other things.
We will still do it part time as a good additional income source.
However I know my product,I know where to get.I have a lot of knowledge in a lot of areas.I constantly research,analyze,change selling stratergies and the like.
I try not to hold inventory for more than 30 to 60 days at most.
I do not stock an over abundance of the same item so if the market drops for that item I am no left holding a lot of items.
I rarely loose money on anything I sell.But its hard work and getting harder every day.
But it gives me a back ache big time sitting here.
I look for areas that turn a good profit and that are not over saturated.
One category I have dominated for over 2 years very few others sell in it.I sell just about every item I sell each week in that category.At most there are 50 under that description but no one is identical.
I sell unique hard to find items that are rarely if ever duplicated that are collectable and have good investment quality down the road.
posted on December 26, 2000 02:57:37 PM
What Adrian said. Also, what do you consider a living? What some people are happy with, would not support the next person's lifestyle. We have kids in college, 5 cars to support, a mortgage, etc. Ebay wouldn't keep us going for a month. But it does allow us to educate those kids, which would be difficult on our salaries. That's the reason I keep online auctions going. I would never try to make enough to replace my salary and job benefits. Too many hours, too much frustration.
posted on December 28, 2000 06:05:45 PMHCQ Wait! A 30% markup means you buy an item for $10 and sell it for $13.50. Subtract your costs (see my posts above) and you're left - if you're working hard and smart - ... Wait 30% of $10.00 is $3.00 -yes?
Ok, what I meant by my comment earlier was. A man made/machine made item that is readily available is not lucrative in that, if it's something readily available, it's going to be very competitive on ebay or other auction sites. If you are selling handmade items, odds are pretty good your magin can be higher. I can't really plug it for you in any other way. Ready made items, not specialty items wouldn't do as well unless they're another Pokemon of sorts..
[ edited by Empires on Dec 28, 2000 06:07 PM ]
posted on December 29, 2000 05:44:02 AM
30% of $10 is indeed $3. But you're not clearing $3 on this deal. You have to subtract your COSTS to get your profit. See my posts above on what those costs can include.
A man made/machine made item that is readily available is not lucrative in that, if it's something readily available, it's going to be very competitive on ebay or other auction sites. If you are selling handmade items, odds are pretty good your magin can be higher.
Maybe at first glance. However, the depressed costs from competition of a a mass-produced item are balanced by the fact that it's usually much cheaper to acquire, particularly if you can afford to buy in bulk (see the Ginsu Knife thread somewhere on this board). The trick, I think, is to find a mass-produced item before anybody else has, make a killing, then move on
A handmade item (I'm assuming you're talking one-off, US-made, not "handmade" items mass-produced in e.g. Taiwan) takes many hours to produce, yet bidders (myself included) are loathe to pay even minimum wage for the creator's time. I'm making substantially more $ per square foot on my quilts than most ebay sellers, but if I were to expect, say, $12/hour, we'd be talking over $600 for a twin bed quilt, which is WAY beyond most folks' means, let alone desires (heck, *I* wouldn't pay that!) and hardly competitive with mass-produced "handmade" imports, which sell for about $50 on a good day.
Now I don't mind getting a lower profit on my quilts than on my vintage "stuff," because (a) I know I'm doing comparatively very well, (b) I'd quilt even if nobody paid me, and (c) since I'm often housebound the time I spend quilting isn't time I'd be spending making money otherwise, so anything I make over the costs of materials/listing is fine with me.
I combine my quilts with sales of other vintage "stuff" (mostly textiles); averaged together, I end up with a net profit of between 300-450%, which obviously means my net on "stuff" is considerably higher than that. Yes, it's a balancing act.
I hope that explains some
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Dec 29, 2000 05:46 AM ]
