posted on January 3, 2001 08:11:45 AM
I have read these boards about when to leave feedback, and never saw any problem with the "when to leave feedback" part until now. I am a seller(337) and a have a different name for buying(23). As a seller, I have always left feedback when the payment is made. Feeling that the buyer had done their part. If they are unsatisfied, well, they had STILL completed their part of the sale. But I never thought about sellers who wait until the buyer sends in feedback, to post feedback for the buyer, figuring it was about the same.
I have now bought a product for my husband. The seller notified me that it had been shipped, which I do also. In that email he said, please leave feedback for me, once the item gets to you. I went and looked at my buying I.D., no feedback from this seller. So I wrote him back, thanked him for letting me know that the item is shipoed, and said, "would you please leave feedback for me also". This was 10 days ago. Still no feedback from the seller. I received the item yesterday.
Now, I feel very angry that this person will not leave feedback for me, until i leave it first. The feeling is that if I am for any reason unhappy, and put that in feedback for the seller, by his not leaving me any, he has a chance to leave me negative feedback, even though I did all that I was supposed to do, in a very timely manner. I really didn't think about this until it happened to me as a buyer. Now I feel like I am being extorted by this seller, concerning feedback. I will never buy from him again. If he is so afraid that I might do something bad reguarding feedback, shouldn't I be suspious (sp?) of why he is worried? Does he usually sell bad, or "not quite as described" merchandise?
By the way, I am very pleased with the item that I bought. But have yet to leave feedback, because I feel that extortion does not deserve it. THANKS for listening, just never thought about this from the buyers side, until now.
posted on January 3, 2001 08:26:02 AM
I don't know why he chooses to do that. I've read some sellers who say they prefer to wait until the buyer tells them they got the item and are satisfied...they consider the deal closed at that time, not when payment is received.
For myself, I try to leave FB as quickly as I can after I get paid, though sometimes I get behind and it takes a few days.
I hope that if you decide to leave a positive because you got an item you like, he will leave you one, and it will all work out as it should.
posted on January 3, 2001 08:34:47 AM
If, and it is a big IF, I leave him any feedback at all, it will be positive. It is the bad feelings I got from this, that has upset me, not his product or shipping, all of which went well.
I am just surprised by the way this has all made me feel. I just never thought of this before. I would never leave even a neutral, as everything about the transaction went well. But I feel as if he is holding this over my head, by not leaving me feedback, when I have done all that I was supposed to do. Mailed a money order, the very day I bought this item. Whether the sale is completed or not, in his opinion, I did all that I was supposed to do, and did it right !!
I'm bringing this up, for the sellers that are like him. The question is why? What are they afraid of? Never thought this type of thing over feedback, of all things, would make me as upset or as mad as this. And I am very mad, extortion from a seller, really!.
posted on January 3, 2001 08:38:32 AM
soldbyj - I can understand in a way how you feel but I think you're reading too much into why the seller is waiting to leave FB until you do - like taking it as a personal attack.
I've learned the hard way that FB took too much of a toll on my good natured self so I reduced its importance and put it in the perspective where it belonged.
You have no way to know what "the walk in that particular seller's mocassins" has been like for him/her. They have their reasons for doing things their way just like you have your reasons for doing things your way -something you would not want somebody to tread upon if you will.
Try not to be angered. There really is no reason to be in this case. Look at the nice item you received and let them know. You'll feel so much better.
posted on January 3, 2001 08:43:00 AMNow, I feel very angry that this person will not leave feedback for me, until i leave it first.
Did the seller actually say this? Maybe they do all their feedback for everybody once a month or so- some sellers do.
Not to be picking on you, but you say you've received the item and are happy with it, yet you've not left feedback for the seller. Maybe they're thinking...
posted on January 3, 2001 08:50:16 AM
The seller could still answer to any feedback less then desirable left on your part anyway, so why would this be feedback extortion? This is perhaps just the way this seller prefers to run their business, and you can easily tell if this seller is not sure of the products they sell, (bad or not as described I think you said) by just reading the feedback they have received, if any, and what his/her other customers have to say. If the feedback is good, then that would not even be a consideration in their thinking. Also when they shipped did they not say "In that email he said, please leave feedback for me, once the item gets to you." Do they know you received the item? I don't see anywhere in your post where they demanded good feedback, just asked you to post feedback when you received the item. Sounds very reasonable to me. I think, MHO that you should save all of that anger for bad transactions, bounced checks, deadbeats and ants in your pizza box. Maybe they are waiting for your email or feedback as an indicator that you did in fact receive the item?? I know with the holiday rush to get prodcts out to my customers, and some of them overnight express, I am behind in my posting of feedback, which I am going to get at, right now!
posted on January 3, 2001 08:51:36 AM
If, by chance, you weren't happy with the merchandise, why in heaven's name would your first communication with the seller about it be in the form of feedback? I strongly disagree with a policy of requiring that a buyer leave feedback first. However, I do ask that buyers let me know by some means that their item has arrived before I do so. If they don't contact me after receipt, I follow up with an email. If they respond, I post feedback at that point. If not, I check my feedback forum occasionally and post feedback for those buyers who paid in a timely fashion but weren't courteous enough to let me know the item arrived. However, they get no kudos for "great communication". Accept that you hold only one view of what constitutes a "complete transaction". If you believe that a buyer's only obligation is to make speedy payment, then it's certainly your right to formulate and follow your policies according to that belief. I, on the other hand, believe that buyers are obligated to behave as decent human beings in their dealings, and one only has to read the Ebay message boards regularly to see some "speedy payers" turn out to be the buyer from H*ll, once their item arrives. I really don't think it's fair to expect sellers to ignore this, or to prevent them from commenting on it by demanding that they leave feedback before they really know what kind of bidder they're dealing with. That isn't an indictment of the quality of the seller's merchandise, that's a realistic acknowledgement of the fact that some people aren't happy no matter HOW good things are, and they'll take that unhappiness out on the most convenient target. It's a form of risk management--recognizing and acknowledging that a risk exists and formulating a plan to minimize one's risk. I'm not advocating withholding feedback for purposes of retaliation, just so that the bidder's behavior can be accurately portrayed in the comment, including things like (and one could leave these as positives, neutrals or negatives): "quick pay, returned different item for refund", "quick pay; claimed damage, demanded partial refund, refused full refund" or even "quick pay, left negative feedback without contacting seller to resolve problem". I don't feel that leaving accurate feedback is unfair, nor do I find it unreasonable to expect the right to do so. The purpose of feedback is to communicate with our peers about how a user handles his/her transactions. That includes how they handle any problems that arise, and it's naive to believe that even great sellers never ship an item that arrives damaged or with which the seller finds some fault that the seller doesn't agree exists. I suppose that if one can afford to adopt a policy of "I'll refund your money no matter what and you can keep the item," then a policy that leaves one open to post-shipping extortion is acceptable. I can't afford to do that, so I have a policy of refunding in full if the item isn't as advertised or refunding bid price in cases of buyer's remorse. The only way I can be sure that I'm allowed to follow those policies is to retain the ability to comment on a buyer's handling of those situations. Thus far, I've given and received positive feedback on one refund (where I'd missed a defect), and gave a positive got a neutral on the other (and I won't argue with that, because the item was broken before it got shipped, and the comment was worded in a positive tone). I've also avoided at least one case where I truly believe that the buyer bid with the intention of substituting a different, damaged item for return. When I noted that our merchandise is marked before shipment, and that I'd be happy to issue a full refund (including return shipping) after receiving and examining the item for our mark, the buyer suddenly decided he liked the piece just fine. He left a positive and so did I, in that order, by his choice. I really wonder what would have happened, had I left feedback when I received his payment.
always pickersangel everywhere
posted on January 3, 2001 08:52:20 AM
I think you are assuming facts not in evidence here. It doesn't appear the seller said they wouldn't leave feedback until you left it.
As a seller I don't leave feedback until the buyer lets me know they have received it in good condition. On those rare occasions when it hasn't arrived safely, then I have the opportunity to work with them before feedback is left.
When that has happened, I've actually gotten BETTER feedback because they were so pleased how I handled a damaged item situation.
I don't wait for the buyer to leave feedback, once they notify me they've received it, I leave feedback that day. I don't really notice when, or even if, they've left feedback.
If a buyer doesn't let me know it's arrived to them, then I leave feedback based on when I think the item arrived.
Now, the difference between me & your seller is that when I get requests for instant feedback based on my ship date, I immediately respond & explain that I leave feedback when they get the item safely. So far, any customer who's requested immediate feedback has seemingly understood my reasoning.
Additionally, I've seen some sellers who only leave feedback once a week or even every 2 weeks.
The "assumption" that the seller is waiting for you to be the first to leave isn't necessarily the case.
I think like you. I treat my buyers the way I would want to be treated. I did my part by making a timely payment. I leave my FB at the time payment has been cleared (for some check items) - usually, this is after I ship the item. It's a convenient time for me to leave a note, "Thank you! Payment received. Your item has been shipped XX/XX/XX."
I leave a note thanking them for the transaction and to advise me when the item ships, and 80% of the time, they do. Now, not everyone leaves a feedback either. Oh well.
I check FBs on prospective buyers and sellers and wonder, "Wow, that transaction took 3 weeks to complete???". I'm probably disecting the FB thing altogether, but I am annoyed when the sellers do not leave FB after payment is received & shipment sent. Usually, I get nothing because it's been forgotten.
I also started a buyers account and you know what? I've paid 3 payments via PayPal (come on, that is quick!) and gotten ONE FB. Unreal!
posted on January 3, 2001 09:07:22 AM
I'm one of these sellers who waits until the buyer informs me they have received the item before leaving feedback. In my EOA e-mail I state they can either let me know they received it by e-mailing me or providing feedback.
The reason I do this is because like some sellers - some buyers are not honest or very good. Once the package has left my hands it is now in control of the post office so if it doesn't arrive on time, damaged, or not at all I can't be held responsible but I will certainly work with the buyer to get the problem rectified through insurance or whatever is avaialble. Also, some buyers may be dishonest and say they never got it when they actually did etc (though I've never had this happen).
I consider the deal over when the buyer gets the item and they are happy with it. I guess I feel while their main obligation is to send payment on time it is also an obligation to work through the deal if it goes sour with postal damage or poor delivery.
I don't demand them to leave feedback first but I do ask to at least send me an e-mail when they get the item; only then will I give them feedback.
I agree with you completely. When I receive payment a buyer has done his share and I leave the feedback.
To me a buyer has to guarentee payment. That is his/her part of the deal. They do not have to guarentee that they will like it. If they don't like it then it is up to me to provide satisfaction. That is my part of the deal to them.
I accidentally punched in a wrong auction number and informed a buyer that I was going to have to file a NPB Alert soon. They wrote back and stated they had paid, and received the item over 3 weeks ago. (Hostile tone, if you can "hear" that in an e mail. ) Then they went on to say that up until this point they had felt it was a perfect transaction, and if I persisted then would file a negative feedback.
Of course I apologized, but what I really wanted to say was if they felt it was the perfect transaction for 3 weeks just when where they going to leave good feedback!?
posted on January 3, 2001 09:50:12 AMEither way, what the other person does doesn't influence my feedback at all..and I believe that is the way it should be.
posted on January 3, 2001 09:55:56 AM
I used to leave feedback when I shipped also.
But, I've read posts here where buyers have used feedback to extort partial refunds, etc. This type of buyer knows that feedback is much more important to sellers than buyers.
I had a buyer neutral me for a broken item after I had done all the paper work for them, and sent them everything they needed for the claim the day they emailed me it arrived broken. Even certified the letter/paperwork to them. While not catastrophic to my overall feedback, I had to wonder if they would have left a neutral if they were still waiting for feedback from me. I would never retaliate, but they wouldn't have known that.
A minor burn, but I now leave feedback after it's been left for me. As a buyer, I leave feedback when I receive the item and it's satisfactory. I actually don't care much if a seller leaves me feedback or not, as I'm much more concerned with their product at that point.
posted on January 3, 2001 10:05:50 AM
Either way, what the other person does doesn't influence my feedback at all..and I believe that is the way it should be.
That's much too rational. It will never work.
It is how I have always left feedback..works for me...
posted on January 3, 2001 10:25:04 AM
The seller is playing games... but so are you. Waiting to leave feedback is like sending a friend to tell the cute boy in junior high school you have a crush on him. If she comes back with the good news that he likes you too then you'll talk to him. If not, well, phooey on him!
(Transpose gender roles as necessary in the above example. )
posted on January 3, 2001 10:35:29 AM
Soldby -
EXACTLY! That's why my TOS says I will not hold the buyer's feedback hostage until they give me some feedback.
It does leave you open to a negative fron the buyer, with no chance to retaliate, but that is not sufficient reason to hold it hostage.
eventer -
If I am going to leave a negative for a seller, I do it whether or not they have left me any ... retaliation is petty, and they damage their own reputations more than mine. There are a few things that can't be "worked out" before FB is left, having to do with bad descriptions and lousy packing.
posted on January 3, 2001 10:48:15 AM
Buyers hold SELLERS feedback hostage, by threatening to leave negative feedback if they do not cow tow to their every wimsy.
posted on January 3, 2001 10:57:53 AMBuyers hold SELLERS feedback hostage, by threatening to leave negative feedback if they do not cow tow to their every wimsy.
That has never happened to me... I have 2400+ feedback.
As a seller I leave feedback as soon as I receive payment. The few times where there were minor problems they were worked out.
As a buyer I leave feedback as soon as I receive the item in good condition... I don't worry about whether the seller leaves me feedback. If they do, great. If they don't, big deal.
posted on January 3, 2001 10:58:45 AMsoldbyj, do you bid on items to buy the item, or to obtain FB?
IOW, why is getting FB so terribly important to you that you are "very angry" about this? You got the item, you're happy with it. Moooooooove onnnnnnn......
posted on January 3, 2001 11:11:48 AM
I leave feedback:
When the buyer tells me they've received the item (or I notice they left me feedback) and once a month when I clear out my auctions which were mailed over 30 days ago. I never ask for feedback, I don't require they go first.
I have no time frame for a payment "received by" date except the one EBAY has for me to request a fee credit. I give positve feedback to everybody unless I have to use the deadbeat bidder form, or they really yank me around by trying to alter the rules after the auction.
posted on January 3, 2001 11:27:58 AM
So often this boils down to a discussion simply of feedback and how important it is to sellers. Many buyers assume that's the only reason that sellers ask that buyers let them know when the item arrives (and PLEASE differentiate between those of us that make this request and the sellers who REQUIRE that feedback be left before it willl be given). My policy wasn't formulated by my need to accumulate feedback. It was formulated to protect my financial interests and by my belief that feedback should reflect the behavior of both parties throughout the ENTIRE transaction. I can't afford to make refunds to buyers who don't deserve refunds. Waiting to leave feedback is one way of decreasing the amount of leverage that such a buyer would have in trying to coerce me into meeting his demands. As I said earlier, it's saved my behind at least once. IMHO, the transaction isn't over until the buyer accepts delivery of the item. I really don't feel I can accurately comment on his handling of the ENTIRE transaction until that's accomplished.
Others' views on what constitutes a "complete" transaction vary, and they're entitled to conduct their business accordingly.
posted on January 3, 2001 11:38:57 AM
I don't consider the seller waiting to leave feedback until they know the item is safely in the buyer's hands as "feedback extortion". It's simply THEIR way of handling my business (and BTW, my procedures for when I leave feedback are stated in my EOA notice for every buyer to see).
Pocono is right...feedback is NOT mandatory nor is there a "right" way or a "wrong" way. Sellers who leave it immediately upon receipt of payment aren't any more right or wrong than sellers who leave it upon the buyer receiving the item.
If the worst thing you have to worry about in your life is why some seller didn't leave feedback before you..then you've got a pretty darn good life.
posted on January 3, 2001 12:25:30 PM
As a seller I used to leave feedback for the buyer as soon as the payment arrived.About six months ago I got burned by a bad check,by the time my bank notified me I had already sent the procuct and left glowing feedback.I now wait untill I hear from the customer that they are happy and if they pay with a check I wait untill it clears my bank before I leave feedback.
posted on January 3, 2001 12:34:50 PM
Feedback is "transaction related" NOT "payment" related. How will av an soldbyj feel when they've left glowing feedback only to have their bank notify them
3 weeks later that the check bounced OR
(as happened to me -- with 270 feedback (no
negs) when I got my first neg. The breakable arrived broken and she negged me
without letting me know. So I had no chance
to refund before she negged me. She was NOT
a responsible buyer. Things do break in shipping as we have all found out. I started giving feedback only after the transaction is known to be satisfactory to both sides. The responsibility of the buyer does NOT end because they have sent payment.
posted on January 3, 2001 01:14:03 PM
I always leave feedback for my buyers as soon as their payment clears. I'm starting to handle my sellers differently now.
Recently I bought a widget from a seller and he sent me a note asking me to leave him positive feedback. His feedback rating is close to 900. I was surprised when I saw that he has left only 16 comments with 6 of those being negs. I decided to forget about leaving feedback for him. Now I check the feedback left by sellers. I don't care wheather I leave it first or last as a buyer, but I will not leave feedback for sellers that neglect to leave any for their buyers.
This is my first year as a seller on Ebay, and to be honest, I really like the way I run things. I haven't had a check bounce on me yet. I even honor checks immediately with great feedbacks. That is why feedbacks are so important to me. If I see that there is a pattern of great feedbacks, this tells me that the person is on the ball and is a great eBay customer, and a potential repeat customer for me. It allows others to know that this person is trustworthy, etc. I've often been puzzled why when most people becomes a Power eBay Seller, most shrug it off as it's no big deal. To me, it is a big deal. Hard work is the bottomline that got you there.
Yeah, it really bums me out when a seller fails to leave me a feedback when I zap a fast payment on over to hear nada back. I'm trying to build my own reputation as a new buyer with another account and it's just not moving as fast because sellers who do not leave FB period. Sometimes I leave FB anyway and shrug it off.
Anyhow, that's my point of view why I feel so strongly about this.
Maybe they are waiting for your email or feedback as an indicator that you did in fact receive the item?? I know with the holiday rush to get prodcts out to my customers, and some of them overnight express, I am behind in my posting of feedback, which I am going to get at, right now!
