posted on January 3, 2001 12:19:18 PM new
I have decided the restlessness and unease following my giving a neg is just not worth it. i try to maintain between 150-200 auctions all the time as this is a full time business. That means every time i have to file non-pay bidder notes I have to do 5-7 at a pop. Most of them ignore me. I wait the 10 days then relist. Lately I've been faced with giving the FIRST neg to bidders, sometimes with their feedback being in the hundreds. Most ignore personal letters, too. So i go ahead and neg, using cold hard facts, not rants. Then the waiting begins; will i get a retaliatory neg ? I have a 4200 feedback with 7 negs (the last two from the same bidder) Every negative i ever received was due to bidders not reading my simple text, never due to late mailing or poor merchandise. I do not want more; i want the ones i do have to be buried so deep nobody will go looking for them. Am i alone on this ? Ebay does not care and sends me canned letters when i point out how unfair the negs i did get were. Until eBay decides a seller with a 4200 is a valuable thing, NO MORE NEGS.
posted on January 3, 2001 12:24:19 PM newI do not want more; i want the ones i do have to be buried so deep nobody will go looking for them.
If everybody else decides on NO MORE NEGS !! too, you'll soon get your wish. Of course, there will be no need for anybody to bother with reading feedback at that point.
posted on January 3, 2001 12:26:27 PM new
I hear you loud and clear and I am sure you will get a lot of feedback on your post but I feel the same way. It just isn't right that Ebay sends out those canned posts. I even had a customer once give me neg by mistake and they wouldn't change it for me or her. I hate my marred record from only malicious people. I even have one from someone who thought I shipped slow when I shipped the day after his payment (check by the way) got here. If you leave a neg there is 50% chance you will get one back regardless of whether you were right or not. Especially if it's for non payment. One of my others is because I sent their payment back because it didn't come until 2 months after the auction.
posted on January 3, 2001 12:30:43 PM new
Bidbusters:
I have to disagree with you. I also have hundreds of auctions listed every week and my feedback is over 3,200. When I get a non-paying bidder, on the 10th day I file a NPB alert. On the 20th day I file my FVF's, relist the item, and NEG the deadbeat. I don't care how many feedbacks they have. They deserved the neg and they get one from me. I have left over 150 NEGS and just a handful of them retaliated. I don't like the negs anymore than you do - and a NEG can ruin my entire day. But - when I NEG that deadbeat, I'm doing YOU a favor because then you can see he was a deadbeat before he wins one of your auctions and have the chance to cancel his bid to save yourself the trouble of dealing with another deadbeat. Leaving negs to these deadbeats is CRUCIAL! I ALWAYS check my bidders' feedback before selling to them and am not afraid to cancel their bid. I am very thankful to the sellers who negged them before me. If we all don't utilize the feedback forum for what it was meant for, we might as well not have feedback at all.
posted on January 3, 2001 12:31:30 PM new
Well let's face it then the eBay feedback system is flawed. I do agree on that, but refusing to give out Negatives is not going to fix it. Let eBay know that there should be a better way to give an "unsatisfactory" feedback, without expecting the offending party to just seek revenge because they are a screw-up. I do agree there must be a better way.
[ edited by docpjw on Jan 3, 2001 12:32 PM ]
posted on January 3, 2001 01:46:59 PM new
I've had emotional reactions to leaving negative feedback as well - one of them being the fear of retaliation. BUT, if a buyer or seller SHOULD have been given negatives and wasn't, I'll never see that warning. And, they will never have to pay the consequences - so they will continue with that behavior. And, chances are that if you're leaving the FIRST negative to someone, they "skated" before on the same behavior. I think many of us on ebay who care about "perfect" ratings, were the same folks who stressed out when we got that first "B" or "C" in school. <p>
As someone who does check the feedback of another before bidding OR selling, I always check out the actual negative comment, and do take into consideration the "reply" comment. So, PLEASE leave true negative feedback when it is deserved, and if you receive it, just comment on it with the TRUTH. I'll recognize it, and so will others!!! Good luck to you all! sweetfulfillment
posted on January 3, 2001 01:47:03 PM new
Let me get this straight.
You have over 4200 FB.
You have 7 negs, 6 of which actually count as two are from the same bidder.
Your pos FB rate is, therefore, well OVER 99.9%.
Yet you find yourself suffering from "restlessness and unease following my giving a neg" because you're concerned about retaliatory FB.
I think you seriously need to step back from the situation and get some perspective. Do you honestly think your pos FB % is anything to worry about? That the negs you've received chase away good bidders? Or are you just rankled at the principle of the thing? If that's the case, you need to ask yourself whether you're running 150 auctions a week to make money or to get warm fuzzies.
No matter how good a seller you are, and whether you neg or not, you ALWAYS run the risk of receiving a neg for no good reason simply by running an auction that ends in a high bid. You may get a bidder who receives your item just fine but decides to claim he didn't get the item at all, and negs you for that. Your mere existence and success may provoke a wacky competitor into bidding on your stuff purely to have the chance to neg you.
Not leaving negs for deadbeats is not going to protect you from receiving negs yourself.
posted on January 3, 2001 01:59:02 PM new
Honest feedback is the only way anyone can tell who you are dealing with.
The only thing you have to worry about is not doing you are supposed to do, not what someone else may or may not do. Most of the time they will not retaliate. If they care enough about their feedback, they'd have paid you. If they retaliate, you respond and blacklist them.
posted on January 3, 2001 02:07:10 PM new
Hate to say it but I also get all nervous about giving that negative. I di everything I can to let them give me some excuse & then usually just NEUTRAL them. The last few NEU I gave have led to NEG's given to me. I cant belive that a neutral would leave to a negative, & am tired of people selling their obviously damaged goods & then saying "I'll only refund purchase price" when I would have never bid if I knew there was damage. The whole system is unfair but what are we going to do???
posted on January 3, 2001 02:13:12 PM newThe whole system is unfair but what are we going to do???
1) Post negative feedback when appropriate and let the chips fall where they may.
2) Refrain from posting negative feedback and let the unethical buyers/sellers continue operating under cover.
Your choice.
edited to add...
3) Refrain from posting negative feedback and hope that other users will pick up the slack for you.
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Jan 3, 2001 02:15 PM ]
posted on January 3, 2001 02:20:20 PM new
If someone is a deadbeat and has wasted my time I have no problem with giving a neg to red flag the deadbeats for others.Last weekI had to cancelthe bid of a fellow who had 8 negs. for deadbeat bidding,and a history of retaliatory negs.. This guy was furious that I would cancel his bid and had a temper tantrum by mail that I would dare do it. I had to smile and send him a reply to grow up. The point is,there are jerks out there and if we all stick together and do something, maybe these guys will start to leave ebay. Doing nothing only prolongs the problem.
Hopping mad about deadbeats!
posted on January 3, 2001 02:21:17 PM new
I got a retaliatory last summer. I did research of the seller and found he lived over 200 miles from where he said he lived in his registration. BINGO!!!!
It doesn't bother me to do biz with a seller with a few negs. Especially if he has 1000 positives that give them high praises. I can always tell by the wording who is the bad guy.
Choose your wording carefully and don't say things in haste. You only have a few words to cover your butt so may it count. The sellers that put the lines in like: THIS PERSON IS FROM MARS doesn't get by business. This type of wording is very unprofessional.
posted on January 3, 2001 02:23:18 PM new
I too . . don't like receiving negative feedback . . .and don't like sending reminders after reminders . . . .so I state in my winners notices that I don't send reminders any longer and if the payment is NOT rec'd by the 10 day . . . a NPB notice will be filed automaticly . . . . .if the bidder takes the time to read the auction ad and the winners e-mail notice. . . . . I "state" twice when the payment is due and give them an actual due date . . . . then . . .if I have to file both NPB and the FVF and leave a negative . . . .and the bidder leaves one in return. . . . .OH yes . . .it hurts . . . deep in the gut . . . . but . life is to short to feel angry all the time . . .I take a step back and then I take it as a "battle scare" . . . . . Those that are the HONEST bidders/sellers will see that the seller/bidder is a efficient and Honest person
posted on January 3, 2001 02:38:49 PM new
For what it's worth ... I'm primarily a buyer on eBay, and if I saw an auction for something I wanted, and the seller had 4000 positives and 7 negs, I wouldn't hesitate to buy from that person, even if the item up for auction was an expensive one.
I know that negative FB can have a big emotional impact -- I once had a nightmare in which a family member I was fighting with RUINED MY PERFECT EBAY FEEDBACK RECORD! -- but I think you're giving other people far too much psychic power over you, Bidbuster.
posted on January 3, 2001 02:54:46 PM new
Hi bidbusters! Under my eBay name I have bought several items from you & was very pleased with both books & service. Your feedback is glowing--I suggest you start scrolling down through it--it should make you smile--4200 people saying nice things about you & your service.
7 negative feedback out of 4200 is nothing more than "paying your feedback taxes". I don't believe that a single buyer would give your few negatives any credence or that it would persuade a single buyer NOT to bid on your stuff.
As others have said, just keep your comments very professional. I use 'auction ended xxx no payment as of yyy' and in response to a negative just state-- 'NPB report filed xxx date--this feedback received yyy.' Someone on the eBay book board stated this morning that their boy friend had taught them 'if you can't give a friendly response, you CAN be professionally bland'.
posted on January 3, 2001 03:08:29 PM new
I would say that with 4200 FB, bidbusters is definitelywith the program, and is merely expressing an opinion.
That said, yes, it does make it a little easier for others to evaluate sellers/bidders. But it is a personal decision. Gosh Shosh!
posted on January 3, 2001 06:09:21 PM new
Giving the netral feedback will not trell me much because I don't check them out as much as I would a neg. A buyer I talked to on the auction I got burned on had given the seller a neutral and he returned a neg on him.
posted on January 3, 2001 07:20:18 PM new
Sorry, shoshanah, but what our injured friend is doing is refusing to contribute to the system which GAVE him is 4,200 FB. He's NOT with the program merely for accepting FB.
I'd take you just a tad more seriously, bidbusters, if you made YOUR FB private, and stated that you won't check other sellers' FB before YOU decide to bid, and won't check your bidders' FB before e.g. you decide what forms of payment to accept, and therefore won't ever complain when somebody deadbeats on you. IOW, walk the talk.
posted on January 3, 2001 07:23:45 PM new
I have to say, I can really see both sides of this debate. I had an eBay name which I had used as a buyer and seller for about 2 years, and had 800+ positive feedbacks. I got an occasional stray negative, mostly from deadbeats, one from someone who spelled my e-mail address wrong and couldn't understand whay I didn't respond, and another from someone who claimed not to have received their item, even though USPS delivery confirmation said it was delivered to their address. A few months ago, I had a problem with my ISP being down for several days. One of my buyers thought that she should have her item in her hand 48 hours after her Paypal payment, and tried to e-mail me. When I did not repsond after 2 days (due to my ISP being down, I couldn't even retrieve my e-mail from another computer) she decided that I was a scam artist. She e-mailed everyone else that had won any of my auctions in the past month, urging them to look at my history of not responding to e-mails and not sending items (those two feedback comments, and a couple retalitories from deadbeats who said they paid but did not) and urged everyone who had paid but had not received their items to neg me immediately and file a fraud report with eBay so that they could get me run off eBay. This womand continued to do these things even after I got back online, responded to her crazy accusations, and even after I had a certified mail receipt that she had received her !@#$%^&* $7 item. Unfortunately, she got enough people to go along with her, that my eBay name was ruined, and I had to get a new user id.
On the other hand, I bought an item from an eBay seller and got ripped off. She had no negative feedback at the time, but once I left the neg, other buyers came out of the woodwork, who had all been afraid to give her the first neg. If one of the others had just been willing to take that chance, I could have been spared a lot of money and heartache.
I guess, there really are no easy answers until eBay's feedback system has some drastic revisions made.
posted on January 3, 2001 08:09:38 PM new
Oh you wimps kill me! I have a feedback over 700, a few negs here and there (8 to be exact) and have left about 50 negs. One in particular I had left three negatives to the same bidder and I got TONS of emails from other sellers with no "you know what" to leave a neg. This went back and forth (she gave me three negs back). The other sellers said she was bogus with address, etc. etc. So I got Safeharbor involved. I ended up getting her a NARU status and 2 of my 3 negs removed (go figure?). Not ONE of those other sellers (she had bid on 110 auctions with 60+ wins) left her feedback. They sat back and watched and applauded me in their emails. I agree with the majority here. That is what the feedback forum is for. You can't always get straight A's and you still can be a doctor with a C-.
posted on January 3, 2001 10:07:56 PM new
As a new seller on EBAY and having run into my first deadbeat bidder, I have been debating how to handle this for a week. I do not have a huge rating (39), so even one negative could effect how a potential biddder views me. This in mind, I had decided not to leave a negative in fear of getting an unfair negative in response. After reading the posts here though, I am simply going to fill out the NPBA, leave the negative I should, relist the item and move on and not worry about it. I plan on adopting a policy like ExecutiveGirl and use it from now on. I don't have time to waste on deadbeats! Thanks ExecutiveGirl
posted on January 3, 2001 10:19:07 PM new
It IS a difficult decision to leave negative feedback, especially when the buyer already is an established individual and obviously knows how to retaliate.
And I don't care what anyone says, buyers sometimes WILL - repeat WILL - avoid a seller with ANY negative feedback. It's a fact of life.
Given this reality, I do applaude those with the er, um... nerve to do the right thing and leave the negs when they are due. Not everyone can afford or has the stomach to deal with the fallout, and I don't blame them.
[ edited by barkrock on Jan 3, 2001 10:23 PM ]
posted on January 4, 2001 04:50:52 AM new
Feedback is a tool that was designed for buyers to rate the service of sellers.
The NPB and FVF systems take care of the deadbeat bidders.
Nearly all deadbeats have some type of justification for their actions. Many will leave retalitory negs. A few of my favorites are:
"I was buying it for my girlfriend, and she just broke up with me"
"My husband said I was spending too much money on them and we couldn't afford any more"
"I lost my job yesterday, and can't afford to buy the item now"
NPB and FVF were filed on all three. Two are now NARU'd. The guy with the girlfriend trouble has over 500 positives, and no negatives. Number two had 50 before her husband pulled the plug on her addiction. Did these three people have legitimate reasons to not pay ? If the three items were purchased in our retail store or from our website, we would have given them a refund and welcomed them to come shop again when times were better for them. Number one and two, would most likely return and become good repeat customers. Number three would never come back out of embarrassment.
In these three instances, negative feedback would have accomplished nothing. (except perhaps add a couple negs to my feedback) The NPB notice, however, worked exactly as designed.
posted on January 4, 2001 06:00:19 AM new
Hmm. Now this is interesting.
Our friend complains that he's receiving far too many retaliatory negs to make leaving negs viable.
He's left 115 negs. Received 7 in return. One claims seller cashed MO but didn't ship. Another claims seller tried to back out of sale, and that ebay agreed with bidder. Of the 7 negs seller's received, THREE were "retaliatory", i.e., left in response to negs he gave (2 are from the same bidder).
So if our friend leaves a neg, he's got a 98% chance that if he leaves a neg he will NOT get one in return. 98%? Rough odds, eh.
But here's something interesting. Let see how our friend responds to the negs and neutrals s/he's received.
Apparently s/he finds it appropriate to call bidders "jerks," "idiots," "thoughtless," and incapable of reading. These comments are made in response to NEUTRALS.
And what if a bidder has the temerity to leave a neg or even a neutral for this seller? Well, bidder has a 75% chance he'll get repaid in kind. One retaliatory neg this seller's left suggests that bidder "needs a dictionary". Charming.
Sorry to have to bring up your FB, bidbusters, but if you plan on throwing stones, make sure your house is made of Kevlar.
posted on January 4, 2001 07:00:00 AM new
Every seller has to decide for him/herself whether it is worth the time and effort to neg deadbeats. I support bidbuster if s/he has decided it's not worth the trouble. I decided long ago that negging deadbeats had only 2 possible motivations (from MY perspective - I'm not speaking for all sellers): (1) it is revenge against someone that has wasted my time; or (2) it is a warning to other sellers that this person is a deadbeat. I realized that I am a business person, and that this eBay thing ain't personal, if you know what I mean. I don't want to waste my time and energy negging out of revenge. Move on, I think. File the NPB and FVF to get my fees back. Spend my time on things that make me money. And I am not in business to be a warning system for other competitors, who probably believe that they are the lucky ones, anyway, and won't get deadbeated by this person. Again, it's a waste of my time and energy. I've got more profitable things to spend my time on. You may not like my feelings on this matter, but they have evolved over 3 years on eBay, and they are what make sense for ME and MY business. I'm not in a seller's fraternal organization; I'm out to support my family.
The only time I think a neg for a buyer is in order is if they bounce a check and won't make good on it, or some other buyer fraud is involved. In that case, other sellers stand the chance of losing both their money and the item, and I would want to warn people about that. Again, I want to emphasize that these are my feelings, and I don't think I have the right to tell other sellers what they should be doing in their business. And as an occasional buyer, I would leave a neg about a fraudulent seller to warn other buyers so they don't get ripped off, too.
posted on January 4, 2001 08:56:50 AM new
Agree with College Park and others.
No pay - you're gonna get negged.
If you do a retailitory negged...i send to community watch and safe harbor with a guidance issue.
I follow eBay guidelines.
Like it or not, we are a community. Sometimes we simply have to police ourselves.
Because many of us work alone through the day, its easy for our moods to fluctuate; feel badly, get po'd, get frightened, whatever.
Nonetheless, I do believe that if one lives by the gun - they'll die by the gun.
Likewise, if one tries to be honest and straightforward - they'll set a fine example for others to use as a power of example.
<p>
Hopping mad about deadbeats!