posted on January 11, 2001 09:21:08 AM new
I have money in my referral area that's "pending". I can't find anywhere in Paypal on how to get this. I just had to upgrade to a Premiere account which I was not happy about and also have another question - am confused on fees - will it come out of EACH transaction (which I have not seen) or do you get a bill once a month- how does it work?
posted on January 11, 2001 09:25:12 AM new
The fees come out of each transaction individually and you will see the breakdown on your account.
As for referral fees, they have made them so hard to get any more I don't even bother spending time trying to get them! The person referred practically has to give up their first born for you to get a referral fee, so your pending transaction is probably just on hold til they pick up the baby!
posted on January 11, 2001 10:18:40 AM new
Paypal has discovered that they are not answerable to anyone and can do whatever they want, (freeze accounts, take money out of folks' bank accounts). They will continue to get more users because there are folks out there who will keep suckering their friends to join for the $5 referral. But now they have gone too far! You can sucker your friends and your family into handing over control of their finances and you won't get your $5 payoff. This stinks.
Why haven't folks realized that PP is not a company to be trusted? Is there no honor among thieves?
posted on January 11, 2001 11:25:15 AM new
They're making it difficult. Here's what your referal has to do for you to get your $5.
What does my friend have to do? Your friend must complete the following for both of you to earn the $5 bonus:
Sign up for PayPal
Confirm their email address
Confirm a bank account
Add $100 or more by electronic funds transfer into their PayPal account
Sign up for a Money Market Fund
posted on January 11, 2001 01:49:43 PM new
Hi yisgood,
Accounts are restricted for the reasons found on the web site and it is fairly specific. In the event of one transaction having an issue this can be reversed individually (and this is the norm, not the exception. Accounts are restricted for larger issues)
Bank account withdrawals are federally regulated items. We will not withdraw funds without a user initiating the transaction (the cases I have investigated where a claim of unauthorized withdrawal have been users using the instant ach or pay with a bank account option).
posted on January 11, 2001 01:57:30 PM new
Damon: You keep repeating that and I keep hearing otherwise and in some cases, from folks I know personally. I also notice that when there is a specific incident posted, you don't respond. There were several on OTWA just this week of accounts that were restricted for spam. The owners denied sending any spam (and considering that PP makes it just about impossible to collect the $5, there is really no reason to) but in any case, since when does spam give PP the right to freeze someone's account, hold on to their money and the money of anyone who pays them?
You are a PP employee, which means youare stuck with parroting the company's tired lies, but I choose to believe that thousands of people didnt all get together and make up stories about PP for no reason.
posted on January 11, 2001 02:06:17 PM new
HI yisgood,
Terms of use on Spam-No Spam. You agree not to use unsolicited email, usenet, message board postings, or similar methods of mass messaging (spam) to gather referral bonuses. The use of spam to promote the Service has strict negative consequences. We will immediately and permanently terminate the account of any User who has used unsolicited email to gain referrals. In addition, you may be subject to state and federal penalties and other legal consequences under applicable law if you send unsolicited email. Our Anti-Spam Policy is intended to protect our users, the Internet, and us.
Spam is reported to us by more than one person and is investigated. I don't know the details of the specific cases, but there is an appeal process in place for the users.
Restricted accounts-
Restrictions. PayPal.com, at its sole discretion, reserves the right to restrict an account for any one of the events listed below. If your account is restricted, you may forfeit all funds currently in your balance.
Reports of unauthorized or unusual credit card use associated with the account including, but not limited to, notice by the card issuing bank
Reports of unauthorized or unusual bank account use associated with the account
Complaints received regarding non-shipment of merchandise, merchandise not as described, or problems with merchandise shipped
Initiation of a charge back process through your issuing bank
Receipt of potentially fraudulent funds
Unconfirmed identity
Initiation of transactions considered to be cash advances or assisting in cash advances
Sending unsolicited, commercial email or posting referral links on web sites where they are not permitted
Opening multiple Personal accounts
The account has been used in or to facilitate fraudulent activity
Inability of United States Postal Service to deliver the street address confirmation letter to the address associated with the account
Reports of someone other than the intended recipient receiving the Street Address Confirmation letter in the mail
Name on the bank account associated with the PayPal account does not match the name on the PayPal account
Insufficient funds in the PayPal account to cover the return of an Electronic Funds Transfer for insufficient funds in the bank account, incorrect bank routing number, or incorrect bank account number
Insufficient funds in the PayPal account to cover the return of a check sent in for deposit.
Use of an anonymizing proxy.
Users that sign up for the service agree to be bound by the TOU.
Board postings are a one-sided view of a case and you are not privy to any other documentation or account records .
posted on January 11, 2001 05:53:37 PM new
>>Terms of use on Spam-No Spam. You agree not to use unsolicited email, usenet, message board postings, or similar methods of mass messaging (spam) to gather referral bonuses. The use of spam to promote the Service has strict negative consequences. We will immediately and permanently terminate the account of any User who has used unsolicited email to gain referrals.
Spam is reported to us by more than one person and is investigated. I don't know the details of the specific cases, but there is an appeal process in place for the users. <<
But I have already heard from a number of folks whose account was restricted, not terminated, for an accusation of spam. So 1) paypal is not following its own TOU and 2) Paypal is punishing a bunch of innocent people (the folks who send money to these accounts).
>>Users that sign up for the service agree to be bound by the TOU. <<
But Paypal isn't. And the TOU has changed so frequently that even PP employees have been ignorant of the rules, like the PP person who insisted the USPS DC is not good proof of delivery when it says so right in the TOU.
>>Board postings are a one-sided view of a case and you are not privy to any other documentation or account records . <<
You're absolutely right. Hundreds of people post the same complaints and you dismiss them all by stating that you are privy to some secret reason and we should all trust this. When other companies are publicly accused of wrongdoing, they give an explanation. Paypal just says "you are only hearing part of the story" and never follows up with an explanation. Sounds to me like you're refusing to answer on the grounds that it will incriminate you.
posted on January 11, 2001 06:11:27 PM new
Hi Yisgood,
Spam-
Users are advised first that they need to cease-and-desist on a first report of SPAM. Several reports can lead to termination/restriction of the account. Instead of terminating or restricting the account on the first report (from which I read as your interpretation) would not give the accused a chance to defend their position.
Board Issues-
I would not deny that there are customer cases that need to be resolved that come to the boards. However, what I am asking you to do, is take into consideration that it is only part of the story. Legal reasons prevent me from commenting about individual cases on the boards and that is why I can't come back and say such-and-such happened and that is why the user was restricted or if the case was resolved successfully. A user is welcome to do that, but I am not. I am here to assist in getting these issues resolved whenever and wherever I can, but I don't handle each case specifically.
TOU-Changes
Being part of a rapidly growing service expanding to beyond US borders will lead to TOU changes. TOU changes will also occur to prevent fraud. These changes are on display on the web site (with a date modified) for users to view (directly on the first page when a user logs in and emails are also sent to users to advise of the change (provided that they are opt-in on their notification preferences).
posted on January 11, 2001 07:03:03 PM new PayPalDamon
[i] Restrictions. PayPal.com, at its sole discretion, reserves the right to restrict an account for any one of the events listed below. If your account is restricted, you may forfeit all funds currently in your balance.
Reports of unauthorized or unusual credit card use associated with the account including, but not limited to, notice by the card issuing bank
Reports of unauthorized or unusual bank account use associated with the account
<snip>
Receipt of potentially fraudulent funds
<snip> [/i]
So, if someone pays me with a stolen credit card, I can get my entire PayPal account restricted 'at PayPal's sole discretion'???
Why does this scare me???? (this is a rhetorical question)
posted on January 11, 2001 07:11:18 PM new
Hi Barbarake,
No. There has to be sufficient information to support an account restriction versus an individual transaction. If a fraud fund/suspected fraud fund comes in, an email is sent to the recipient and we pending reverse the transaction (not available to the sender or recipient). This allows us to verify the source and take appropriate action.
posted on January 11, 2001 07:11:18 PM new
It is pointless to get into a back-and-forth over general issues. And you won't discuss specifics other than to say you are privy to secret information. I will bring up a few specific cases, but I'm sure you can't discuss those.
What about my customer, Eddie, who was taken by a PP seller who used a fake address and phone number to register at the auction site. Though this proves that the seller was a premeditated crook, all you did was ask me and Eddie to send you the info several times and eventually tell him there was nothing PP could do. He had to do a charge back through his credit card. Two months later, that seller's PP account was still open.
What about Inetstar? PP restricted the account of the company president. When the other members emailed PP in protest, PP restricted ALL of their accounts for "storming" (a charge I didn't even find in the TOU). Talk about McCarthyism.
What about the seller I know personally who had her account restricted because one of her customers did a charge back, claiming non receipt of goods? He did not make any attempt to contact her or PP. PP made no effort to contact her. She had delivery confirmation, but PP told her it was unacceptable because it had no signature. But DC is listed in PP's TOU as acceptable proof. I guess PP employees don't understand the TOU either.
>>Spam-
Users are advised first that they need to cease-and-desist on a first report of SPAM. Several reports can lead to termination/restriction of the account. Instead of terminating or restricting the account on the first report (from which I read as your interpretation) would not give the accused a chance to defend their position. <<
But I have heard from many people that PP doesn't give the accused a chance to defend themselves anyway.
>>Board Issues-
I would not deny that there are customer cases that need to be resolved that come to the boards. However, what I am asking you to do, is take into consideration that it is only part of the story. Legal reasons prevent me from commenting about individual cases on the boards and that is why I can't come back and say such-and-such happened and that is why the user was restricted or if the case was resolved successfully. A user is welcome to do that, but I am not. I am here to assist in getting these issues resolved whenever and wherever I can, but I don't handle each case specifically. <<
So why don't you just put in the TOU that if someone complains on a public board, PP has the right to answer publicly? This is far more acceptable than restricting accounts.
>>TOU-Changes
Being part of a rapidly growing service expanding to beyond US borders will lead to TOU changes. TOU changes will also occur to prevent fraud. These changes are on display on the web site (with a date modified) for users to view (directly on the first page when a user logs in and emails are also sent to users to advise of the change (provided that they are opt-in on their notification preferences). <<
And I have pointed out cases where PP employees did not follow TOU. Maybe it's changed too many times. Why don't you first sit down and come up with a good one rather than put it up first and then change it later? You're very quick to change the TOU and very slow to implement real methods of fraud protection. It took you a year to agree that sending out the buyer's address would cut down on fraud. How long have you promised an accept/reject button? Isn't it time Paypal gave users something they asked for instead of more grief and more fees?
posted on January 11, 2001 07:22:21 PM new
Hi yisgood,>Board Issues-
I would not deny that there are customer cases that need to be resolved that come to the boards. However, what I am asking you to do, is take into consideration that it is only part of the story. Legal reasons prevent me from commenting about individual cases on the boards and that is why I can't come back and say such-and-such happened and that is why the user was restricted or if the case was resolved successfully. A user is welcome to do that, but I am not. I am here to assist in getting these issues resolved whenever and wherever I can, but I don't handle each case specifically. <<
So why don't you just put in the TOU that if someone complains on a public board, PP has the right to answer publicly? This is far more acceptable than restricting accounts.
(Legally I can't do so and that kind of modification could not be a part of a TOU. All customer information and contact information, issues, etc. are proprietary in nature and can only be released publicly by the party in question). Again, the reasons accounts are restricted are clearly defined in the TOU and accounts are not restricted over one transaction.)
>>TOU-Changes
Being part of a rapidly growing service expanding to beyond US borders will lead to TOU changes. TOU changes will also occur to prevent fraud. These changes are on display on the web site (with a date modified) for users to view (directly on the first page when a user logs in and emails are also sent to users to advise of the change (provided that they are opt-in on their notification preferences). <<
And I have pointed out cases where PP employees did not follow TOU. Maybe it's changed too many times. Why don't you first sit down and come up with a good one rather than put it up first and then change it later? You're very quick to change the TOU and very slow to implement real methods of fraud protection. It took you a year to agree that sending out the buyer's address would cut down on fraud. How long have you promised an accept/reject button? Isn't it time Paypal gave users something they asked for instead of more grief and more fees?
(THE ACCEPT/REJECT issue is being slated for release very shortly, perhaps by next week.)
All three of the cases you mentioned..I have no power to make the outcome favorable and I did not handle them.
However, if a Buyer Protection claim is denied, it is generally because the buyer could not prove that they were defrauded or that the seller provided evidence to the contrary. The same works in reverse...if a seller can't provide sufficient proof of delivery that is trackable ON-LINE (this may have been what the other user issue was), they run the risk of losing the appeal.
Your specific case with Eddie, if memory serves correct, happened before the Buyer/Seller Protection program went into effect 08/01/2000.
Appeals-Users are asked to provide specific documentation to get the account unrestricted. If the procedure is not followed they run the risk of losing the appeal or not having the account unrestricted. (As it relates to your Spam inquiry).
posted on January 11, 2001 07:34:24 PM newTOU-Changes Being part of a rapidly growing service expanding to beyond US borders will lead to TOU changes. TOU changes will also occur to prevent fraud. These changes are on display on the web site (with a date modified) for users to view (directly on the first page when a user logs in and emails are also sent to users to advise of the change (provided that they are opt-in on their notification preferences).
Where does one go to see their notification preferences?
posted on January 11, 2001 07:56:48 PM new
That's interesting- I have both boxes checked under preferences, yet I have not received any email notification for several of the policy changes described on the PayPal site.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:10:44 AM new
I tried to buy something and was at my limit Christmas time and this is why my account was frozen.
Because I did not know my spending limits on my ccd's.
Some gal just used paypal to pay for a transaction with me. My paypal account has been dormant but now is frozen with her transaction.
Now, I am supposed to mail the package with a payment I cannot have.
Such a delima.
I see why people have developed a mistrust.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:36:02 AM new
>>However, if a Buyer Protection claim is denied, it is generally because the buyer could not prove that they were defrauded or that the seller provided evidence to the contrary. The same works in reverse...if a seller can't provide sufficient proof of delivery that is trackable ON-LINE (this may have been what the other user issue was), they run the risk of losing the appeal. <<
USPS delivery confirmation IS trackable on line. In any case, it is one of the specific proofs that the Paypal TOU mentions. Yet the seller I know was told it was not good. And she was NOT contacted by either the buyer or PP before her account was restricted.
>>Your specific case with Eddie, if memory serves correct, happened before the Buyer/Seller Protection program went into effect 08/01/2000. <<
It's been so long that I don't remember the exact date, but I do remember that PP first told him to wait 30 days, then asked for his info, then said they were working on it and tried to jerk him around until the deadline for a charge back passed. If there was no buyer protection at the time, what was all this pretend activity for? In any case, since PP has to pay the seller with either a check or a bank deposit, they should have been interested in preventing the fraud whether or not there was buyer protection. This seller's PP account was still open two months later. The seller registered at the auction site with a phony address. The street address was in NYC, the zip code was in Long Island and the phone number was in upstate NY. This was a premeditated fraud. If that isn't enough proof for PP, then what is? Do you need a notarized confession from the seller?
You talk about investigations and appeals. I have seen hundreds of posts and received many emails from folks I know that make it quite obvious there is no investigation or appeal. PP's goal it to protect themselves and they will take the money from the easiest target.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:42:45 AM new
zeenza- I had something almost just like that happen to me at Christmas time and my account was also frozen. PayPalDamon had me to email him and after a day they reopened my account. Somewhere in there is a place you can go to close your account, but I dont remember where. I'm sure someone can help you with that.
As for the person paying you by Paypal, I don't what you can do. I don't know if they can get the payment back or not without causing you more problems. I'm taking it the bidder didn't check with you before paying by paypal.
Guess I'm not much help to you. Only wanted to tell you that I had the same problem, but with PayPalDamon's help was able to get my account back open and get to my money I had in there.
posted on January 12, 2001 07:56:04 AM new
Hi zeenza
To close your PayPal account, click on the "profile" tab at the top of your account page.
Then click on "close account" at the bottom of the column of options on the left side of the screen.
posted on January 12, 2001 11:22:47 AM new
Hi vargas,
The notification preference I was referring to relates to emails sent advising users of changes. If a user is opt-in, they will receive this.
Users can view policy changes and updates on the site after the log in. It has a last modified date and users are encouraged to check it on a regular basis.
posted on January 12, 2001 11:44:42 AM new
BZDELUX,
Your post has been deleted because it contained profanity.
AuctionWatch members are welcome to ask relevant questions of the PayPal representative however, please remember the concept of basic etiquette as you post.
