posted on January 21, 2001 04:26:23 PM
You know, I find it kind of funny/ironic that folks suspect Safeharbor of all kinds of undercover/sting operations, when they seemingly overlook even the simplest and easiest violations.
Just out of curiosity and because I'm having trouble getting motivated to do much else this afternoon, I did the following searches:
The word "Billpoint" substituted in the pairings yielded ZERO results.
Now I know not all the auctions found in these searches attempt to impose the fees, but most do. And no, LOL, I don't have time or inclination to forward all these auctions to Safeharbor. They could do the same searches if they really wanted to be "proactive." (And push eBay's partner Billpoint!)
posted on January 21, 2001 04:36:01 PM
Billpoint is a credit card service. Charging extra for CC acceptance is illegal in most states. PP charges even for payments sent from bank accounts or the balance in a PP account. Therefore, it is not illegal. There is even some debate about whether it is against ebay's TOS because ebay staffers have posted conflicting info.
posted on January 21, 2001 09:03:51 PM
It is not legal if sellers are not making any distinction between when the fees get applied -- so theoretically someone could pay by credit card and therefore be charged.
At any rate, Safeharbor has specifically warned sellers who have this in their auctions to knock it off or risk having the auctions cancelled entirely.
posted on January 21, 2001 09:18:27 PM
I did a quick glance of about 6 pages of the "Paypal fees" search and found that the vast majority of these auctions (closing very soon) have no bids... I wonder why
posted on January 22, 2001 12:49:13 AM
This conversation seems a bit confused. The PayPal charges are only applicable to credit card payments. Billpoint charges applicable fees to the buyer as well so what is the beef here? PayPal DOES NOT charge for checking account transactions or payments made from a valid PayPal account. I offer this service simply to please my customers - they asked for it. I also accept M/O, personal checks, PayPal, ExchangePath, ProPay. These are not for my benefit since I could care less how I receive payment - as long as it gets here timely - but buyers have asked that I offer these through emails and I have obliged. If people don't want to pay the fees, simply use some other form of payment and move on. I am not forcing anyone to use this credit card service nor do I push it on anyone. This is for efficiency of the customer.
posted on January 22, 2001 01:17:48 AM
No confusion, lawmillion.
PayPal is free for bidders with personal accounts to use for payments, but the holder of a business or premier account is charged a fee to accept payments regardless of whether the customer pays by credit card, a bank account, or account balance. What some sellers are doing is attempting to pass on those fees to bidders by imposing a surcharge on bidders who wish to pay by PayPal.
posted on January 22, 2001 08:07:34 AM
I almost bid on this auction today until I read the "Fine Print"...
"Buyer to pay shipping and handling. Handling refers to packaging, payment fees, ebay fees, etc, not just shipping itself."
I was afraid they meant not only the listing fee but, the final value fee too. If I add that to the PayPal fee the item becomes pretty steep! No thanks! I found the same item listed cheaper and without all the fees. I'll bid there!
posted on January 22, 2001 10:13:28 AM
I still think buyers are getting persnickety here. In my opinion, anything is fair in an auction posting as long as it is all stated up front in clear terms. I have seen sellers ask $25 shipping for a camera that I know can be shipped for under $10. Why is this any better than charging the PP fee which the seller does have to pay? What if a seller said "I am charging $1 handling to cover the rent on my office." Is this professional? No. Can you be whine to ebay about it? Again, no, because it doesnt violate their rules. So don't whine about the PP fees either. If you dont like it, don't bid or dont use PP.
When you buy an item, you are paying ALL of the seller's costs, whether it is stated in the post of not. You are paying the seller's listing fees, billpoint fees, rent, telephone, whatever. In my opinion, if a seller can isolate certain fees and charge them only to customers who use those services, all the better. I have seen auctions for heavy items where shipping is a flat fee in all 48 states. Personally, I would prefer to pay based on what it cost to ship to ME, not to some guy 3,000 miles away. And if I am paying by electronic check, I don't want a 2.5% credit card fee built-in to the price because someone else might want to pay by credit card.
I dont understand what all the fuss is about. If you dont want to be charged the PP fee, don't use that method of payment. If you insist that sellers hide it, you will still be charged it, you just wont see it in the listing. Stop whining to ebay about every little thing. If you dont like the terms, don't bid.
posted on January 22, 2001 10:34:52 AM
Actually, I DON'T bid on auctions that charge Paypal fees, and I don't charge those to my customers either. It is against eBay's policy, pure and simple, and my original point had more to do with SafeHarbor's uneven and inconsistent enforcement of their TOS. Some posters on these boards see Safeharbor schemes and "sting operations" lurking in every corner, but obviously SafeHarbor overlooks even basic ways of pro-active enforcement.
I don't pass along Paypal or Billpoint fees to my customers, even in a "hidden" way, because there is a benefit to me as a seller. I have certainly had an increase in overseas transactions now that these payment options exist. And although it can be difficult to measure, you have to assume that these features entice more "impulse" buys, and certainly the convenience/financial flexibility of credit card payments.
By posting this topic, I am not "making a fuss," I am simply making an observation that was of interest to me.
[ edited by Lisa_B on Jan 22, 2001 10:37 AM ]
posted on January 22, 2001 08:26:28 PM
mshomo : That language sounds like a seller who has gotten in trouble for charging (say) $3.50 S&H but only put a $3.20 stamp on it, and the buyer demanded a refund of the 30 cents.
yisgood is very correct, for those like myself who are trying to run a business on ebay, the buyers pay all the costs one way or another. The paypal fees are a very real and nontrivial cost. We can recover costs by having either higher bid prices or higher S&H fees. I've personally chosen the latter.
