posted on February 16, 2001 05:04:35 AM new
EBAY CLOSED MY AUCTIONS FOR KEY WORD SLAMMING LAST NIGHT. I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS. I SELL DOLLS CLOTHES THAT MY MOM MAKES. THE PATTERNS ARE BOUGHT AT WALMART, AND MADE BY BUTTERWICK, MC CALLS & SIMPLICITY. THEY ARE MADE AND STATE FOR THE 18" DOLLS SUCH AS AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS BY PLEASHANT COMPANY. I LIST MY CLOTHES AS "FIT AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS" SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY ARE NOT THE REAL THING. OUT OF 2000 ITEMS LISTED IN AMERICAN GIRL 80% ARE JUST LIKE MINE. I WAS ONLY ONE KICKED OFF. HOW ARE THE PEOPLE TO KNOW WHAT DOLLS THEY FIT IF I CAN NOT PUT THE NAME OF DOLL THEY ARE MADE FOR? IT WAS NOT COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT AS PATTERNS AND SUCH WERE LISCENSED BY AMERICAN GIRL. EBAY SAID I VIOLATED KEY WORD SPAMMING. MAYBE I'M THICK I DON'T SEE IT. CAN ANYONE CLARIFY THIS FOR ME? OR GIVE ME TIPS ON HOW TO LIST SO MY DOLL CLOTHES COME UP WHEN PEOPLE ARE SEARCHING FOR THOSE DOLLS?
posted on February 16, 2001 05:36:36 AM new
Do you also list Wal-Mart, and all the pattern brands in your ad, too? I'm wondering if the key word spamming was because of 'American Girl' or one of the other brands you listed.
Do you say in your ad that the pattern used is licensed by American Girl?
Little side note, your post is really hard to read in all capital letters...
posted on February 16, 2001 05:43:04 AM new
Hi,
If the auction is not for American Girl Dolls than you can't use that in your title. You can't list a string of patterns either.
The important thing to remember is to put in the title ONLY WHAT THE ITEM IS, not what it is like, or what it might fit, or how it can be used. For example, you will have to say "2 piece suit for 20" doll, cotton blend"
The thing to remember is that the buyers in specific catagories know what they are looking for, and will find thier items using specific words. If you put those specific words to get people to look at your auctions because you think they might be interested, then you are going to irritate the buyers (or possibly sellers) and they will turn you into eBay. Those same people, if they decide, can also do a search on 20" doll clothes if they are interested in NON American Girl items to add to their collection. You are underestimating the bidder by putting extra keywords in the title, and setting yourself up for problems.
Generally, eBay allows you to mention in the description that they will fit the American Girl Doll. You can have one reference However, don't list a string of dolls, (to get lots of lookers) because again, you would be keyword spamming.
Here are eBay rules:
Key word spamming
Excessive use of key words, including (but not limited to) brand names, which are referenced for the purpose of attracting or diverting bidders to a listing will be considered key word spamming and is not permitted.
posted on February 16, 2001 06:38:33 AM new
SORYY ABOUT CAPS. AM LEGALLY BLIND. NEED THEM TO SEE WHAT I TYPE. I DO NOT LIST WALMART OR PATTERN NAMES. I ONLY SAY DRESS FITS AMERICAN GIRL 18" DOLL. I CHECKED WITH SEVERAL OF MY CUSTOMERS, ALL DO SEARCHS UNDER THE NAME AMERICAN GIRL TO FIND AND BUY MY DRESSES. IF PATTERN IS MADE FOR THAT DOLL THEN BY LISTING FITS AMERICAN GIRL I FEEL I AM SELLING EXACTLY WHAT I SAY I AM. BEFOR I HAD PEOPLE EMAILING ME TRYING TO BUY FOR THEIR CHILDREN..... COMPLAINING BECAUSE I DID'NT LIST DRESS SIZE! I EVEN HAD ONE LADY WANT TO BUY ONE FOR A PARTY SHE WAS GOING TO! LOL I DON'Y KNOW. I AM CONSIDERING OTHER AUCTION SITES. ANY SUGGESTIONS?
posted on February 16, 2001 06:45:57 AM new
Tell eBay to take a long walk off a short pier. Those idiots have no idea of what they are doing anymore ...
posted on February 16, 2001 07:13:30 AM new
The very few times I've had problems with eBay with something in my auction or what I was selling, they sent me a couple of warnings before they canceled my auction. Didn't they first send you a warning?
Personally, I would call eBay and talk with them, so you will know exactly what the cancellation is for.
I am not a major eBay fan, but when problems have arisen, I have found them reasonable and open to explaning what they objected to.
posted on February 16, 2001 07:20:53 AM new
I know a seller who went through the same thing with Barbie dolls. She sells Mexican made dolls, that look like Barbie, but aren't made by Mattel.
She can no longer use "Barbie" in the title, but she CAN list them in the Barbie category.
posted on February 16, 2001 07:34:32 AM new
you have to be very careful here. Read the rules. Yes , many others get away with it but that does not make it right. you are in fact using their name to earn sales. If you were selling a Cola soft on a curb and your cooler of drinks said "Tastes like Coke!" And had the Coke logo you would be infringing on their trademark. If you are crafty you will take the name out of the title. Perhaps you used "amreican girl doll" which may be their trademark. Use American made dress for girl doll as your title. This would get you out of it. Plus I have been in this situation before and been told not to do it. I think you were probably warned and ignored the warning. (Unless your use of a trademarked name was so blatent)
Good luck!
Prepare for the worst but hope for the best!! Spuddy98
posted on February 16, 2001 07:37:12 AM new
YOU ARE CORRECT ABOUT A WARNING. ON 2-10 I RECEIVED A WARNING THAT I WAS KEY WORD SLAMMING. HOWEVER THEY REFERRED TO THE PLACE IN MY AUCTIONS WHERE I HAD TYPED" WE SEW FOR BARBIE, MY TWINN, CABBAGE PATCH, GENE, BITTY BABY & AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS PLEASE VIEW MY OTHER AUCTIONS. I TOOK THIS TO MEAN THAT I WAS SLAMMING THE AUCTIONS WITH BARBIE BY HAVING MY DRESSES SHOW UP UNDER THAT CATAGORY... SO I CHANGED MY WORDING TO SAY " WE SEW FOR MANY DOLLS PLEASE SEE MY AW STOREFRONT FOR A COMPLETE LIST" I FELT THIS WOULD PUT ME IN COMPLIANCE. IN MY ADS I ONLY PUT THE NAME OF THE EXACT DOLL THEY WOULD FIT THUS PREVENTING MY AM GIRL STUFF FROM BEING IN CABBAGE PATCH OR MY BARBIE STUFF FROM GOING TO AM GIRL. WHO HAS A GOOD AUCTION SITE THAT I CAN SELL MY STUFF AT?
posted on February 16, 2001 08:00:43 AM new
I DON'T THINK SOME OF YOU READ THAT THE PATTERNS ARE LICENSED BY AMERICAN GIRL.
I WOULD TAKE TIME TO TALK ABOUT EBAY AND EXPLAIN THE PATTERNS ARE NOT JUST A THIRD PARTY PRODUCT - THEY ARE LICENSED BY AMERICAN GIRL. THEY SHOULD LET YOU RELIST - AND I WOULD PUT THAT INFO. IN THE AUCTION DESCRIPTION
IN ALL CAPS FOR VISUALLY IMPAIRED WRITER
I ALSO USE LARGE FONT WHEN I LIST LARGE PRINT BOOKS ON EBAY TO HELP BIDDERS.
[ edited by gravid on Feb 16, 2001 08:02 AM ]
posted on February 16, 2001 08:16:26 AM new
HELLO MTAKAMI2,
I THINK THAT YOUR AUCTIONS WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE IF YOU DID SOMETHING LIKE THIS IN THE TITLE:
DOLL DRESS - SEE DESCRIPTION FOR FIT
AND THEN IN THE DESCRIPTION:
THIS DRESS IS MADE FROM A PATTERN FOR AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS
_____________________________________________
YOU MIGHT ALSO REPLY TO THE EBAY STAFFER WHO CANCELLED YOUR AUCTIONS AND ASK THEM SPECIFICALLY WHAT WAS OBJECTIONABLE IN THE TITLE OR DESCRIPTION. IF YOU CAN GET A SPECIFIC STATEMENT FROM EBAY YOU MIGHT THEN ARGUE THAT YOU HAVE BEEN UNFAIRLY SINGLED OUT AND PROVIDE EBAY WITH A LIST OF OTHER AUCTIONS THAT ESSENTIALLY DO THE SAME THING.
THAT MIGHT GET EBAY TO BACK OFF FURTHER CANCELLATIONS. tHE IDEA BEING THAT IF THEY WILL CANCEL YOURS THEN YOU CAN REPORT OTHER OFFENDERS AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO CANCEL THEM AS WELL. IF THE OFFENSE IS COMMONPLACE THEN EBAY HAS NO BUSINESS ENFORCING THE RULE SO CAPRICIOUSLY.
posted on February 16, 2001 10:45:25 AM new
MTAKAMI2 ~ this is a little off topic but it may help you if you're running Win95/98
Reduce your resolution to 640x480. This will make all fonts appear "larger" so you'll have an easier time reading them.
Go to "control panel" and choose "assessibility options". Click the "display" tab. Put a checkmark in the "use high contrast" box and then click the "settings" button.
Under the "high contrast color schemes" settings.. choose "white on black". This contrast is much easier for people who are visually impared to see and read. Click "ok" and then click "apply" and allow the settings to take effect.
If you are using Netscape.. go to "edit" and then "preferences" and then under "appearance" choose "colors". You can tell the browser to use windows colors and you can tell it to override whatever colors are predefined within a page. This way you will have the constant white on black. When you're done with this area.. choose the "font" area.. and there are two places for you to change the default font size for the browser. Change it to 14 pts or higher, depending on your need.
I am going to assume you live in the states? If so, and you are over the age of 18 and legally blind or visually impared find your closes Department of Human Services in your city and have them give you the phone number for Division of Services for the Blind. It may go by a slightly different name, however it will be the same program. Since you are using your computer to help make a living, you can request that a case be opened for you.. sort of a rehabilitation type thing. If the changes I've suggested, for your computer are not helping, you may need to consider speech software. This is why I'm suggesting DSB. Speech software is very expensive .. however it will make your computer life MUCH easier. If you're in a postion to perhaps purchase it, there's many different ones out on the market.. such as ZoomText, SuperNova and many many other ones. Department of Services for the Blind and visually impared should be up to date on these along with the current prices.
Just wanted to pass along these tips, that we've found, to make your computer life a bit easier.
edited to add:
Forgot about MSIE, sorry about that. If you're using that browser, the only thing you can do to control font size is to go to "view" and then "text size" and then choose "largest". Then if you go to "tools" and "internet options" under the "general" tab, you'll find the "assessibility" button, you can tell it to ignore colors, font sizes, and font styles of webpages. This will allow your computer defaults to come into play when viewing/reading web pages, rather than how the web designer wanted it to look. But many times that's a big help, especially when they're using hard colors to read and very small fonts Anyhow, once you do that, click "ok" and then "apply".
[ edited by rosiebud on Feb 16, 2001 10:51 AM ]
posted on February 16, 2001 11:11:46 AM new
take your case to the feds
you have a disability --blind
ebay is discriminating against blind people
doing auctions--
email your congress man, senator and eeoc--gov agency that as a blind person ebay is
discriminating against you
and email the ebay clerk who suspended you
posted on February 16, 2001 11:23:19 AM newtake your case to the feds you have a disability --blind ebay is discriminating against blind people doing auctions-- email your congress man, senator and eoc--gov agency that as a blind person ebay is discriminating against you and email the ebay clerk who suspended you
Being blind has nothing to do with keyword spamming. Doing something like what is being suggested is totallly lame and does nothing but hurt the disabled because people are more likely to remember the frivilous accusations than they are the real court decisions. However, if the person who suggested this, can tie keyword spamming in with being blind or visually impared than maybe the courts wouldn't laugh so hard.
posted on February 16, 2001 02:47:18 PM newMTAKAMI2: You cannot list the tradename of an item in the title of the auction unless the auction is for that item by that company.
You can, however, use that name in the description: "These dresses fit American Girl dolls."
capriole: It is NOT okay for a seller to say "see my other auctions of Hasselblad, Mamiya, Pentax and Fuji" - that is keyword spamming also.
posted on February 16, 2001 03:28:32 PM new
THANK YOU TO MY FELLOW AW MEMBERS WHO HAVE RESPONDED. I APPRECIATE AND HAVE USED THE TIPS ON VISUALLY CHALLENGED PEOPLE. I JUST LAUNCHED AN AUCTION TITLED BEAUTIFUL DRESS FITS 18" GIRL DOLL. I PUT IT WAS SEWEN FROM A PATTERN FOR AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS IN THE DESCRIPTION. I WILL LET YOU KNOW IF I GET THE AX OR IF THIS WORKS. THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU.
posted on February 16, 2001 08:57:51 PM new
Glenda,
I agree, but I have emailed safeharbor on this point several times.
I even posted a thread to that nature. Though I don't habitually police auctions, nothing is more frustrating than having searches muddied up that way.
So I email ebay and they say it's okay.
On Topic, though if a product is made specifically for a type of item, then I think it can be listed as such.
Say for example I custom make photo lens cover. I say in the auction: Made to fit XYZ camera lens. Then I should be able to do so.
posted on February 16, 2001 09:26:39 PM new
Jsut a note here. I see comments about the licensing and naming of pattern manufacturers and the doll company. Are you aware that you are not permitted to use those patterns commercially? I realize that many people make and then sell the items from the patterns but the manufacturers don't like that at all. Using the name American Girl can definitely cause problems. I'm surprised they aren't VeRo registered.
Just a note of trivia... Stores such as WalMart or JoAnne Fabrics don't buy and then sell the patterns in their store. The pattern manufacturers retain full ownership of the pattern and set the prices under agreements. WalMart is only a selling agent for those. The money goes back to the manufacturer and then a percentage comes back to the seller as a result of the sale. The stores can't even order patterns they are low on. The manufacturer decides stock levels and distribution rates.
[ edited by avaloncourt on Feb 16, 2001 09:30 PM ]
posted on February 16, 2001 11:55:40 PM new
I DO NOT STATE THE PATTERN BRAND IN MY AUCTIONS. I JUST STATE MADE FROM A PATTERN FOR AMERICAN GIRL DOLLS. I CHECKED THE FRONT, BACK & INSERT OF THE PATTERNS AND IT DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT NOT MAKING & SELLING THE DRESSES. SOFTWARE, MOVIES, BOOKS, MUSIC ALL HAVE COPYRIGHT DISCLAIMERS ABOUT MANUFAVCTURING AND SELLING THEIR PRODUCTS, THE FACT THAT COMPANIES AS LARGE AS THE PATTERN COMPANIES DO NOT HAVE THE SAME DISCLAIMERS IS A SURE INDICATOR TO ME THAT I AM NOT BREAKING THE LAW. I WAS NOT CLOSED FOR COPY RIGHT VIOLATIONS. I WAS CLOSED FOR KEYWORD SPAMMING. I AM MAKING A PRODUCT AS INTENDED FOR THE ITEM IN QUESTION AND NOT ALLOWED TO SAY IT'S NAME. 80-90% OF THE ITEMS IN A AMERICAN GIRL SEARCH ARE EXACTLY WHAT I WAS DOING. ABOUT 80-90% OF THOSE AUCTIONS SELL. THEY SELL BECAUSE IT IS WHAT THE CUSTOMER WAS LOOKING FOR WHEN THEY DID THE SEARCH. ARE WE GOING TO LET 10% OF EBAYS BUYERS DICTATE HOW THE OTHER 90% HAVE TO SEARCH? I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH THAT. I THINK EBAY NEEDS TO RESEARCH THE ITEMS IN QUESTION AND MAKE A MORE INFORMED RULING. ANY FOOL COULD SEE THAT I WAS IN THE RIGHT. ALSO I SENT THEM 8 NAMES OF PEOPLE & AUCTION #S IN THAT SEARCH SO THEY COULD SEE WHAT THE BUYERS & SELLARS IN THE CATAGORY WAS DOING. ALL OF THE NAMES WERE GUILTY OF THE SAME VIOLATION I WAS CANCELLED FOR. THEIR AUCTIONS ARE STILL OPEN AND RUNNING. WHY NOT EQUAL RULES FOR ALL? I ALSO SUGGESTED A AM GIRL CATAGORY SO I COULD LIST ALONG WITH THE OTHER 2000 AUCTIONS IN THE CORRECT CATAGORY AND NOT EVEN HAVE TO LIST THE NAME. OBVIOUSLY THIS DOLL HAS A LARGE FOLLOWING AND EBAY COULD BENEFIT FROM THIS ADDITION. BARBIE, GENE & CABBAGE PATCH HAVE THERE OWN CATAGORY YET THEY DO NOT COME CLOSE TO HAVING THE NUMBER OF AUCTIONS RUNNING AS THE AMERICAN GIRL DOLL. THEY ARE NOT EVEN RESPONDING TO MY ATTEMPTS TO FIND A WORKABLE SOLUTION. I AM DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED IN EBAY.
posted on February 17, 2001 12:29:13 AM new
MTAKAM12
Hopefully I can help you some. I produce a product (stuffed animals) on which I hold a copyright. The day I sell my patterns and instructions is the day I give away all rights to the product. The people who I contract with to have them made sign a contract with me stating that they will not produce these without my consent. When American Girl published and sold these patterns, they DID NOT hand you a contract to sign that said you may not sell the product. I believe you are being given some very bad information here. If you found nothing on the instructions stating that you may not sell the items, then you have not broken any trademark or copyright.
If the information in some of these posts was FACT, then no seamstress would be able to sell any garment that they made from a Simplicity, McCalls or Vogue pattern.
If I were you, I would make a copy of one of the patterns and mail it to Ebay along with a letter (could be done through email too) informing them that you have the RIGHT to make these clothes as you bought the pattern. You are also qualified to advertise your garments as "Made from an authentic American Girl Pattern".
I personally bought some of these dresses on Ebay (I can't remember if you were the Seller) but, they were exquisite!
I feel that Ebay IS doing their job, copyrights and trademarks must be protected on auctions, but, this is understandably a situation wherein they do not have the information to base a sound decision on.
If I can help you further, look me up! I certainly wish you good luck.
posted on February 18, 2001 11:25:38 AM new
Just some additional information on using commercial patterns to make and sell multiple items:
The following statement appears on my Simplicity pattern for scrunchies (1993):
"Sold for individual home use only and not for commercial or manufacturing purposes."
This seems pretty clear to me...I can make all I want for my own use, gifts, etc., but must not make and sell these items. I would also imagine that this statement is placed only on items that are likely to be used for commercial purposes, and not on all patterns. Doll dresses might fit in that category.
From a Vogue dress pattern:
"This pattern is for the exclusive use of private customers. Any copying of this design for resale of the garment in any form, with or without the name of the couturier, is strictly forbidden."
This is a little more tricky, as they are trying to protect the name of the designer as well as their own rights, but still I think it's pretty evident that you cannot make and sell these dresses or reproduce this pattern and sell it.
I don't think that's why these auctions were closed, but it's an important point for crafters to remember. You can't use copyrighted patterns for commercial purposes without the permission of the pattern company. You could probably use such a pattern as a starting point, and alter it sufficiently so as to have created an original pattern (which you would then own the rights to)--but in that case, why not just start from scratch and avoid the potential problems?
posted on February 18, 2001 11:31:43 AM new
I had a friend who used to make dresses for the American Girl Dolls. She used patterns that said "18 inch Dolls". She sold the dresses in a local Children's Bookstore, but was not allowed to use the words American Girl anywhere in her tags or on the dresses. She was able to pretty much copy the exact dresses you could buy directly from American Girl by buying the material and dress patterns that were mostly identical.
The people who bought these knew what dolls they were for, you just couldn't advertise them that way. As far as how the patterns are worded, I would be curious to see the patterns used. It would be worth it to alter them a bit so that they were unique.
posted on February 18, 2001 11:33:18 AM new
Doll Clothes on Line~
This is my interpretation of this issue - not necessarily fact.
There are many 19 in (?) dolls on the market. The American Girl Doll has become the "popular" one and the quality is excellent. Many spin-offs have been made.
If I make dresses that are my own creation to fit these dolls I may not use the name of the American Girl doll in my ads. My dresses have no connection to this doll.
However, and as in the case of the original poster, IF I use a pattern which American Girl Dolls has SOLD TO ME to make dresses which THEY designed for that doll, I now have the right to advertise my dresses as such.
While Ebay may be wrong in this situation, I can understand the confusion and until someone points out to them why this should be allowed, the situation will not change.
Copyright infringement is a serious charge and very technical to prove. Ebay cannot be expected to run a trial on every case that may appear to be infringement. However, they must protect their site from infringements taking place on it as they could in turn be "brought into the case".....possibly.
I can't advise how to "word" the auctions to make them acceptable to Ebay, nor can anyone else. I feel strongly that this situation needs to be discussed on the phone with Ebay. Possible: "Authentic American Girl Doll Clothes". It is possible that Ebay will not want to deal with such an "intricate" situtation, that could be misinterpreted (as already has been) by most people - how can they tell if you are using THEIR pattern or not.
posted on February 18, 2001 11:37:15 AM new
The patterns in question are not from American Girl, they are from Butterick, McCalls and the like.
To list hand made dresses as Authentic American Girl would be wrong. Authentic would imply that they were coming from the American Girl company. They do sell their own accessories.
I still think that anyone who owns one of these dolls will know to look at the 18" clothing. While using the words American Girl might bring in more viewers, most would have already learned to search using broader terms.
Somewhere in here I got the wrong "idea". I thought the patterns were issued by American Girl. You are correct, if they are Butterick, etc. and it is stated on the pattern that they may not be "sold"....end of story! My mistake.
It has been a long time since I have used commercial patterns. I do have a product that I designed, may in the future sell the patterns, and was not aware that I could specify (may not be made for resale). This is a dangerous step to take, in my opinion, and you will spend many days tracking this "clause". lol Not sure it would be worth the time involved.
I find it interesting that the original poster states that this "clause" was not on the patterns. ?????
posted on February 18, 2001 11:59:39 AM new
Even the pattern makers themselves, ie, Butterick, McCalls, do not use the words American Girl. The patterns say 18" doll.
If The Pleasant Company isn't a VERO member yet, they soon will be.
I found this quote on a web site:
In the case we are interested in, Pleasant Co. is actually "Pleasant Company doing business as American Girl TM." That TM stands for trademark, and the company has registered and owns it. When Pleasant Co. has "cease and desist" orders issued to other people using American Girl in their name, etc., their are doing it as trademark protection--not as copyright infringement. It is sort of parallel to the fact that our church, which owns 5 acres and doesn't use it all on a daily basis, has to walk the bounds every year with witnesses, under the laws of this state, or adjacent property owners could sort of move their daffodils and barbecue grills onto it, and it we didn't object, they could get title by adverse possession. If a company doesn't issue "cease and desist" orders to protect its trademark, it can be seen as having abandoned it.
