posted on February 18, 2001 09:24:58 AM
Hi...again, I need some support in making a tough decision....
I have a buyer who swears she sent a Western Union Money order for the widget. My records indicate I didn't recieve it. I could have made a mistake, I do that occasionally. I asked for verification, saying if I did cash it, I would pay for the trace. SHe sends me an email stating that she called them and it was cashed on this date. I asked for the number off the reciept so I can verify this. She has 2 kids that use the computer and the reciepts that were on her desk have dissappeared. Anyone can say something. I got this email 2 days later:
I GIVE YOU WIN. I no longer can find the receipt. This stinks because I have
not had this problem nor do I feel it should be one when I know the money
order was cashed because I called Western Union. The fact that the receipt is
now missing after I have confirmed that it was cashed, is to your benefit.
That is fine. I no longer wish to deal with this. I am actually losing money
with what my time is worth by trying to retrace what you already have cashed.
Keep the money and keep the dress. I also realize you have the capability to
trace the money order cashed by yourself. So Cindy, you have a great day.
She has shades next to her ID and a rating of 7 pos no negs. She says she has shades because she just started using ebay in January and didn't realize that she had registered a while back
posted on February 18, 2001 09:53:02 AM
No it isn't possible to trace it without the number and, since you never got it, there is no way. I'd like to see her send you a copy of the documentation from W.U. that says it was cashed by you.
Have a feeling (a HUGE one, ok?) that she is full of it! trying to get over on you! If she had conclusive evidence that you cashed the m.o. then, of course, she would provide you with that evidence..She also sounds very confused. She also needs to bone up on her lying skills!
The situation you describe is only a symptom of the real problem:
My records indicate I didn't recieve it. I could have made a mistake, I do that occasionally.
If you KNEW for certain that you did not cash the money order, you would know how to handle this situation.
The way I organize my in-coming mail and recording keeping, I know with 100% certainty whether I have received payment for an item - not the tinest possiblity of doubt.
posted on February 18, 2001 10:21:29 AM
Hi - my sympathy to 'ya! In my opinion, she is just as responsible for keeping up with her receipt as you are for knowing whether you received the M.O. Why is she so positive it was YOU that received and cashed the m.o.? Basically, I agree with what sharkbaby said.
I would check her bidding and see what she won after your auction. Check the fb for those item(s). If no fb has been left, email those sellers and see "if they have had any trouble" with this buyer. Proceed from there.
I am 99% certain that I did not recieve this payment. The only reason there is any doubt in my mind is because of what she is saying. I realize that, even though my system seems failproof, I am human and can make a mistake. Because of the fact that I am human I do not speak in absolutes.
I am constantly learning and refining my processes regarding auctions, and life. This is just one more instance where I am trying to see what I can do to avoid this trap again.
posted on February 18, 2001 10:35:59 AM
good point, stockticker!
I keep track of all my ending auctions with a 3x5 card system. (I know, this is probably prehistoric but it is what works for me!) On the front I have the auction#, end price plus ship cost = total, winning bidder id & email addr, and below that the person's name & address when I get it. On the back of the card I put all the communications with dates & times. I keep them in a 3x5 plastic card file (til there are too many then I pull out a couple months @ a time) that has dividers: First Notice, no response...Responded, waiting 4pmt...2nd & 3rd notice (or npb..)...Deadbeat...Waiting 4ck to clear...and Completed sales.
It's quick & easy and I have everything right there. After shipping I file any insurance receipts behind it's respective card and ups receipts, etc.
posted on February 18, 2001 10:43:06 AM
I do the same thing, sharkbaby, only I print out a copy of the first page of the auction. I use different colored paper each week, to help me keep track of the length of time. And, I write everything on it. When I get a payment, I pull that paper, package up the item and mail it. Then, I staple the insurance receipt to the paper, leave feedback and file it.
posted on February 18, 2001 10:48:31 AM
Yeah, it's definitely a great idea to keep track of the chronology. I put the end date of the auction on the upper left hand corner of the card and file them oldest first except on the last one (completed sales) where I file them most recent first.
What I really like is that 3x5 cards are cheap and small and I don't have to use paper or printing materials. Your system sounds really excellent so, I'd be willing to bet that you never received that payment and, quite possibly, she never sent it!
With your method, I don't see how you could have messed up. You would have forgotten to record payment, plus you would have had to lose the insurance receipt and forgotten to leave feedback.
In your place, I would check all of my completed transactions since the auction to ensure that everything ties in and that I did not record the payment as being received for the wrong auction. If that checks out, I would FORGET IT and do nothing further. Nothing positive would be accomplished by any further e-mails with the bidder. The last line of the e-mail you received indicates that she is accepting the situation although she is trying to lay on a major guilt trip.
If the bidder leaves a negative feedback, respond factually that payment was not received.
Irene
[ edited by stockticker on Feb 18, 2001 05:10 PM ]
I know how you feel...I too have a well organized system for recieving money, but being human as you said, there's always that nagging doubt if someone says they've sent a payment and you don't have it.
But, I agree with everyone else on this post...I don't think she ever sent the money order. What did it for me was that it took 2 days for her to send that email. If she was right, knew she was right, I think she would have been more on top of it.
posted on February 18, 2001 04:59:58 PM
Another thing that I have found useful, even though it requires a little extra time, is to make copies of all the items I deposit. I just bunch as many up as will fit on an 8x11 and make a copy to file with my deposit receipt. Since I only make a couple of deposits a week and many of my sales are completed on paypal & billpoint, it's not too much of a hassle for me. But it's saved my butt more than once to be able to go back & see the copies. Plus, once the bank lost a money order and I was able to provide them with a copy showing all the money orders that I deposited that day so they ended up having to put the money back into my account.
posted on February 18, 2001 05:27:41 PM
First - I use a system which is paperless. I basically scan every check/payment that I get. Thus, if there is the slightest question with my record database of what I received, I will check the scans.
Second - I would call Western Union. See if there is a fee to trace the money order. Most places charge a $7 or more fee to trace a money order. This is why money orders for low price items (under $10) is basically useless. No one would want to pay a high trace fee for a low dollar money order.
You did not indicate the amount of the money order. But, if it is small and there is a fee for doing the trace, I would be surprise if the buyer actually request the trace. Most likely, it is a long story to get out of completing the transaction.
Third - if you do call Western Union, ask them how long it takes to do a trace. Sometimes, traces take a couple of days. See if the timing makes sense with regards to what the buyer is telling you.
Fourth - if you are going to email the other sellers of lots that the buyer has won, ask them if they were paid by Western Union M.O. By the way, while I have been paid by a lot of different M.O., I would say Western Union is definitely not the most common. Not sure why this is the case. I always wonder if the cost of the money order from Western Union is higher than supermarkets or post office.
Finally, I am a little bit confuse. If you did cash the money order, how would you have cashed it? Do you deposit it or actually go to a Western Union office? If you deposit it, don't you have records of what items make up your bank deposits? If you do not have such records, this may be a future problem if ever audited by the IRS.
Personally, if after all the above, I am convince the buyer is telling the truth, I would send them the dress. Put the loss as a lesson that your system of record keeping may need a slight improvement.
posted on February 18, 2001 05:33:25 PM
Speaking as a bidder that sent a money order that snail mailed its way to the seller- I made sure I kept my receipt and actually scanned the back and front of the receipt that showed the amount, date and time that the MO was purchased.
It took 3 weeks instead of a usual 4 days to reach her, but at least the seller was satisfied with the proof I sent that I did,in fact, send her the money.
** I must have had a funny feeling about it because normally I am horrendous with keeping receipts..
The money orders that I get I take to the bank and deposit them or cash them just like a regular check. I do some deposits at an ATM machine, so the deposit shows on my records as a bulk deposit for the total of all the MO.
I cannot really trace the MO without the number. That is my problem. I CAN'T trace it, without the number off of the receipt that she has lost. It was for 16.10, by the way.
I am now making a copy of every payment that I get, and attaching it to the copy of the auction. All this is really doing though, is adding more work. I always take payments straight to my desk, pull the item, and seal it for shipping.
If only she had the reciept!!!!!! Then, I could trace it. I can send anyone an email telling them that Western Union says it was cashed!!!!!!!
posted on February 18, 2001 06:08:10 PM
You can do nothing.
It would be irresponsbile to do anything. You do keep records, and they don't show that you received the money order.
It is the buyers responsibility to prove that you cashed it, not that it was just cashed.
BTW This is one of the reason why I discourage the use of Money orders for under $50 or so. It is very easy to get a copy of a cancelled check, but it generally cost $8 to get a copy of a money order. Whats the point of sending a money order for $10 if it's going to cost $8 if it is lost, send cash or a check.
posted on February 18, 2001 06:11:52 PM
That's good that it is a small amount.
Follow my previous post and call up Western Union. See if there is a tracing fee. I think most buyers would think twice before asking for a trace on a $16+ MO if it cost them about $7 for the trace.
As an aside, if you are reporting your ebay income on your tax return, your method of depositing/cashing payments is probably unacceptable for the IRS. They like you to have a trail from sales to deposits.
Good luck. Personally, for $16+, I would not spend much more time on this matter. Just use the time to list another item and make up the $16.
