Louissa
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posted on February 19, 2001 07:22:42 AM
Hi,
I'm a new seller on ebay since just after Christmas, selling mainly small toys under $20. My TOS states very clearly in all my auctions that I accept money orders only and I also add this to all my winners emails to make it very clear. I had a buyer win an auction ($3.99+$4 S/H)from me about 12 days ago and a few days ago I recieved an envelope containing US currency(I live in Canada)$6 were in notes which my bank will exchange, but $2 were in quarters which my bank will not exchange. I emailed her telling her this and suggested that she could either send a further $2 in notes and I'll exchange the cash this once and send her coins back to her with her items or she send me a money order as stated in my TOS and winners email and I would return all her money with her items. She refused to do either and demanded that I either find somewhere to change her cash or send all her money back at MY expense($2 of quarters is heavy!). I told her that was not acceptable as she did not follow TOS therefore this was her error and on a sale for such a small amount I was not willing to pay for her mistake. Now she is getting verbally abusive. Below is some of her latest emails.
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"YOU ARE absolutely UNBELIEVEABLE!!!! You are not happy with me because I didn't send you the money for the auction item in the denominations you wanted!!!! Listen, I sent you the $3.99 for the viewmaster items I LEGITMately won from your auction. Then you charged me an extra $4.00 for shipping an item that will cost you less than $2.00 U.S. to mail to me and you are upset that the last part was in quarters which was all I had in american $$ on me. (otherwise you'd still be waiting for me to go to the states to get you a US money order) You take the cake!!! You are the most ignorant person I've dealt with on ebay!! Now,You can either send back ALL my money on Monday or send me the viewmaster reels. YOUR CHOICE. But no matter what you choose at this point I'm NOT giving you good feedback for this ebay auction. If you mail me the viewmaster reels I will give you a neutral. If you take too long to refund my money or send me any less than I sent you I"ll file many complaints against you and You will get a nasty feedback. Hope you CHOOSE to do the right thing! IT's your choice now."
<p>
Consequently shipping charges are actually $4 CDN plus applicable taxes and $1 plus taxes for bubble envelope to protect reels, not $2 as she claims to justify herself. I have since told her very politely that I will not be threatened or bullied and she is free to do as she wishes but that she is the one in the wrong and I will not be bullied into paying her shipping and I will return her money and envelope as return to sender. She has since sent a new email now threatening me with legal action, that I should package differently and I am not allowed according to her to send her envelope back sealed up return to sender. She says her family is in law enforement, another ploy at intimidation I feel. Anyway, I'm at a loss what to do here, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I feel if I give in to her demands and send the items or pay myself to send back her cash I am sending the message that her behaviour is acceptable and she could do it to other sellers. Sorry about the length of this. Any advice?
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imabrit
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posted on February 19, 2001 07:31:15 AM
I would simply neg her and tell her you are sending all info from her to safeharbor regarding her conduct and threats.
I would simply just return her the money and tell her not to bid on your items anymore.
As you stated she did not follow your TOS that's her fault and not yours.
Adrian
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sharkbaby
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posted on February 19, 2001 07:31:19 AM
OMG! What a wacko! I'd probably send her the stuff and ask her not to bid on any more of my auctions. I'd also forward the email to safeharbor. Good luck with her!
I am constantly amazed lately at the brashness and lack of consideration that many people display. What can they be thinking???
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codasaurus
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posted on February 19, 2001 07:39:20 AM
Hello Louissa,
Refund your buyer's payment in Canadian bills and coins?
That might teach this buyer about the difficulties you encountered because they violated the your TOS.
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Louissa
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posted on February 19, 2001 07:40:49 AM
I did come up with one solution, but it gives her basically her own way, I had just won an auction for a dress for my little girl and the seller is in the US and I asked if they minded me sending them the coins as part payment. They seem ok with that but I still feel that if I do this I am sending this woman the message that she can use and abuse other sellers. Also I have no negative feedback and 36 positive and I am worried a negative from her will put other bidders off bidding on my auctions. This is so frustrating.
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amy
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posted on February 19, 2001 07:55:59 AM
Louissa
Is your buyer also in Canada? Sounds that way since she said that was all the American money she had and you would have to wait longer if she had to go to the states to get a money order.
If she is in Canada, why didn't you just ask for the payment in Canadian funds?
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Louissa
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posted on February 19, 2001 08:05:11 AM
Firstly shipping address is for Niagra Falls NY, with a 5 digit US zip code so I assumed she was from US. She claims in a later email trying to get cheaper shipping costs that she is in Canada. I think maybe she is on the border. However my TOS states "Bidders in Canada please email for shipping costs as they vary from Province to Province.", so if she is in Canada then she never let me know and if she is what's with the US mailing address? Totally Confusing!!! I've had a few Canadian bidders send me cash in CDN funds and I have no problem with that other than I feel its risky for the buyer. What is even more confusing, is that if she would have to travel to get a US money order why couldn't she of got a CDN money order instead and sent CDN funds? Personally I think theres a screw looses somewhere!
[ edited by Louissa on Feb 19, 2001 08:07 AM ]
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harmonygrove
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posted on February 19, 2001 08:12:42 AM
I would either return her money in Canadian Money or issue her a check for the refund on a Canadian bank. That should fix her little red wagon!!
I'd also report it to SafeHarbor. People like this must be stopped!
If its any consolation, I've been selling on Ebay for over 2 years and have never had a nutcase like this. If the odds are right, you should have two years of smooth sailing before the next kook!!
Good luck!!!
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kudzurose
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posted on February 19, 2001 08:13:44 AM
Since it seems fairly certain you will get a neg out of this no matter what (I would not trust her statement about the neutral), I would do as codasaurus said, and send her refund in CDN $, but I would deduct the postage amount from that. Then request that she not bid on your auctions again, and CC SafeHarbor.
If she negs you, reply to it factually and professionally, and people will get the picture.
By all means report her to SafeHarbor. You never know what they might already have in a file on her; if there isn't one, you need to start it. 
KR
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dubyasdaman
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posted on February 19, 2001 08:15:18 AM
Prepare yourself for a neg regardless of what you do because you're gonna get one. 100%, absolutely for certain. I would wrap the item in a thin layer of brown paper and pray that it gets ruined on the trip to her. This woman needs a lesson in reality. On second thought, I'd send it in a used pizza box filled with ants. Hey, it's worked before!
[ edited by dubyasdaman on Feb 19, 2001 08:17 AM ]
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Meya
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posted on February 19, 2001 08:20:57 AM
I would send the money back to her, minus the postage. Forward all emails with headers to SafeHarbor. When and if you get a neg from them, reply without being nasty and those who view your feedback will get the picture.
As an aside, here in the states, we've used Canadian quarters combined with US quarters and never had a problem. The only place you can't use them is in vending machines. I take it by your post that you cannot use US quarters in Canada? What I mean is, I've never had a store clerk refuse a Canadian quarter. Was that just a mistake on the clerks part?
Actually, when we've been in Canada, most places we shopped loved getting US money. When they made change, they didn't give the same exchange that we could have gotten had we exchanged our money first. It was to their gain.
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amy
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posted on February 19, 2001 08:22:26 AM
Sounds like she has a US address for her ebay purchases...I've had a number of Canadian buyers who do this.
My advice...since you can use the money to pay for a US purchase you just made, I would go ahead and finish the transaction with her. Send her the merchandise.
I wouldn't worry about trying to teach her a lesson or worry that she is learning she can do this to other sellers.
You did ask for payment in US funds and that is how she paid you...just not as a money order. I don't think she was trying to disregard your TOS. It seems locigal that if a seller is able to accept payment in a foreign currency (foriegn to the seller) money order that they can also accept cash in the same foriegn currency. IMO, thats probably how her reasoning went.
I wouldn't involve safe harbor nor would I neg her.
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sharkbaby
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posted on February 19, 2001 08:29:03 AM
It seems to me that the big issue here isn't even the quarters. The reason that safeharbor needs to be advised is her threat (or promise) of negative feedback whether or not you submit to her incredibly rude and nasty demands!
I am assuming that your correspondence was polite and professional prior to receiving that nasty email from her. As such, there is no way she should have said the things she said and made the threats that she made.
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Louissa
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posted on February 19, 2001 10:02:53 AM
I have decided to send the merchandise to her, even though I'd rather send her the pizza box and ants! I will also contact safe harbour with copies of all correspondance. As for feedback I think I'll wait and see what she does, I'm certainly not going to sit by and let her give me 'nasty feedback' because she has a problem reading and complying with a sellers TOS, but I also am not going to add fuel to this very 'explosive fire'. And you are right saying that its not really about the quarters anymore, it is about the way she has conducted herself and I find her actions a disgrace.
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dixiebee
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posted on February 19, 2001 10:10:25 AM
I always state a set shipping amount in my auctions. I once had a buyer that wanted me to refund the extra 28 cents that I had charged her. After a few slightly heated e-mails between us, I decided that I would send her the extra back. I didn't think that it was worth a 33 cent stamp to send her 28 cents. I sent her 28 cents alright -- all in pennies. It cost me more to ship but I felt so much better about it. I plead that the devil made me do it.
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kudzurose
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posted on February 19, 2001 10:17:37 AM
I think you are wise to wait to post feedback; since she knows you still have the option to post feedback for HER, she may come to her senses and not give you a neg.
KR
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cdnbooks
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posted on February 19, 2001 10:21:33 AM
Louissa
The course of action you choose is exactly the right one, IMHO.
If you use the quarters in Canada, you will be short CDN$1.00 . It is just not worth the hassel.
If you can spend the quarters in the US you are going to be kept whole.
I sold 3 items on eBAy UK a while back. I got paid in UK cash. The bills just went to the back. About 6 months later I bought something from a UK seller who was nice enough to accept the UK coins as part payment.
There are lots of great eBayers around. Don't let this one spoil it for you.
Bill
typo
[ edited by cdnbooks on Feb 19, 2001 10:22 AM ]
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RB
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posted on February 19, 2001 10:21:47 AM
Meya ...
We can use American quarters, but at par. With an exchange rate of around 50%, I'd prefer to have a US one dollar bill than 4 US quarters 
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sharkbaby
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posted on February 19, 2001 10:40:25 AM
Louissa: I totally agree with cdnbooks. You chose the right road all the way around. Unfortunately, there wasn't really going to be a winner here no matter what you did. But you kind of have left yourself with as much the upperhand as possible. Good luck with wacko woman!
shark
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joanne
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posted on February 19, 2001 10:55:06 AM
Louissa - Good for you for taking the high road... I don't know that I could have done the same
(BTW, you cannot reseal an envelope and mark it return to sender, you can only do that with unopened envelopes or packages. Once i'ts been opened you'd have to pay postage to send it back.)
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alldings
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posted on February 19, 2001 11:19:33 AM
7 bucks US money equals aprox $10.50 Canadian. She sent you 2 bucks in qtrs which get exchanged at par..so thats minus a buck. Which means on a 7 dollar bid you got paid $9.50 and your whining? Send the lady her stuff. At the very best a TOS is a guide that customers often fail to read or totally ignore. Sales lesson number 1 "The customer is always right." Sales lesson number 2 "Tis better to make a penny profit than none at all."
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Louissa
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posted on February 19, 2001 01:43:33 PM
alldings you obviously don't realise, I did not make $7, I made $3.99 on that auction, minus the price I paid for the items and my ebay fees I actually only made about $1.50, why should I be willing to lose one quarter of my money from the auction - another $1? If you had an auction for $100 would you be willing to forego $25 of it? I doubt it very much. The point was this person did not only refuse to follow TOS but then proceeded to make threats. And just for the record in the past week alone I have undercharged 2 people on shipping by mistake, did I email them asking them to send me the extra money? NO I paid it out of my own pocket because it was MY mistake. I'm not Walmart I don't have a large profit margin and customer service desk and I don't have to put up with rude threatening people who cannot follow TOS.
By the way I HAVE mailed her the items, but on a lower shipping rate due because of her behaviour and just in case she tries to claim I didn't mail I got a signed reciept with her name and package details on.
[ edited by Louissa on Feb 19, 2001 01:47 PM ]
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Dakota1
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posted on February 19, 2001 02:56:22 PM
Sales lesson number 1 "The customer is always right."
I disagree...
The customer in not always right...but they are still the customer.
Dakota1 (nowhere but here) 
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Louissa
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posted on February 20, 2001 08:16:10 AM
Well she's following through on her threats already, I wake up to find an email from Square Trade with a complaint filed on me wanting a response. It took all I had not to fill every part in with "This woman is a pyschotic nutcase" Now I have wasted all this time filling it in the stupid thing won't follow through and says server is down!
What burns me is that I sent her merchandise to her yesterday and she's pulling stunts like this. I wonder what else I'm going to be recieving in the mail now? This woman is out and out crazy and out to make my life as hellish as possible because she can't read and follow TOS!
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cdnbooks
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posted on February 20, 2001 09:19:46 AM
...why don't you post the auction number and invite her????
Bill
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sharkbaby
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posted on February 20, 2001 09:24:34 AM
I don't want her tracking ME down!
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