posted on February 25, 2001 06:17:08 PM
ebaY schemes, tries to control, and sows distrust in the community. Fortunately the individuals in the community are smarter then the ebaY paranoia driven conglomerate mind.
ebaY announced today at ebaY University in Dallas that they were going to force ebaY users who currently use an email address as a user ID to change it. So much for sellers who have spent years developing their "brand" - they are SOL.
In addition, there have been anecdotal reports that ebaY has run "sting" operations, where an alleged 'buyer' emails a seller on a reserve auction not met situation and asks to purchase. The sellers gives the buyer the info and the buyer turns the seller in - so that the seller gets suspended.
So here is a solution. I am sure there are plenty of folks even brighter than I, who will come up with even better ones. Share your brainpower and ideas.
This should protect both seller and buyer from ebaY's accusations of SPAM or fee avoidance. This solution should also help to restore the trust between buyer and seller that we feel is inherently being destroyed by ebaYs actions in this matter.
Every seller should start a mailing list/customer database that buyers can Opt In for. BigStep.Com has very flexible customer database management tools that will facilitate a list such as we are suggesting. Put a link to your mailing list/customer database in EVERY auction.
Any customer who voluntarily signs up, becomes part of YOUR customer database NOT ebaYs.
If a potential buyer emails you with a question about other items you might have for sale, or about an item you no longer have listed on ebaY, inform them that by ebaY's rules you cannot give them that information, BUT if they want, they can sign up to become part of YOUR mailing list/customer database. Once they sign up, they have agreed to enter a direct relationship with you, therefore the seller is protected against reports to ebaY from buyers, for breaking the rules, and the buyer is protected, because they too received no information from you that could jeopardize their ebaY registration, since they did not get any information until you both entered into a direct relationship with each other.
The seller will have written proof of this direct relationship in case it is needed in a court of law to prove that the customer had voluntarily become a customer outside of their relationship with ebaY. As far as TAG can tell, there is currently nothing in the ebaY user agreement that would prohibit this method.
Of course nothing stops ebaY from suspending you, BUT you can make a much more effective protest when you break no rules than when you do. If enough folks get suspended for using this method there will be a good body of written evidence to show ebaY was attempting to enforce an exclusive agency agreement when there was no such contract in force, and probably a valid argument for restraint of trade. It would definitely blow ebaYs venue status to smithereens.
As to the email problems - put an email link in EVERY auction. Display is PROMINENTLY with a nice graphic right up front. Don't stick it at the end of the auction. Make sure your customers can contact you, so that you can give them the service they deserve. Use a button like the one SmoothSale provides, or sign up with a service like MyBiz. All will provide you with direct contact with your bidder without ebaYs unwarranted interference. -Rosalinda
TAGnotes - daily email synopsis about the Online Auction Industry
http://www.topica.com/lists/tagnotes
[ edited by rnrgroup on Feb 25, 2001 06:19 PM ]
posted on February 25, 2001 07:06:20 PM
Sounds like a good idea. I believe eBay allows sellers to add customers automatically to a mailing list, providing that the customer is notified that they (the customer) may opt out at any time.
If eBay prohibits email addresses as part of the user ID, that would certainly be evidence that eBay is far more concerned about preventing off-site sales than preventing spam.
The tighter eBay tries to squeeze sellers, the more sellers will find alternate methods to evade eBay's rules. I believe eBay has already crossed the line by prohibiting off-site sales. Their new policy amounts to restraint of trade. It's one thing to prohibit buyers from accessing email addresses. It's quite another to prohibit sellers from responding to email inquiries.
posted on February 25, 2001 07:19:15 PMtwinsoft I have to disagree, I don't think eBay allows you to add buyers to an OPT OUT list. It must be an OPT IN list or it is considered spam.
Greg
P.S. If a seller adds me to an OPT OUT list, I will report them to ebay and keep reporting until they are suspended. I don't buy items on eBay to be SPAMMED by inconsiderate pushy sellers.
posted on February 25, 2001 09:13:58 PM
we send an end of auction "form letter" at the close of every auction, we have since day one when most of the people would write back and say it was a great touch they had never seen one before.
I use to have on every email a box that the seller could check that would add them to our mailing list, we averaged over 50% of the people checking the box, every once in awhile we would get a nut case that was mad that we even had that on the email. Just like everything else you can't please everyone. when I had links on the auctions to add themselves to our email list I would get about 2-3 a week, HUGE difference as we usually have over 500 auctions running.
I actually am happy with the changes at ebay, there were too many people(bottom feeders) that would contact under bidders and sell to them without ever making an ad, paying a listing or closing fee and steeling a potential sale if you had another you wanted to list. Every once in awhile someone would forward us one of these letters and of course ebay would do nothing, even with the email headers. we have over 4000 feedback, not really a big number anymore, but I usually bid with a name that has less than 10. Almost every time I bid on something and I am not the winning bidder I get an emails from other people asking if I want the same item for what I have bid, even sometimes when the auction is still active.
the one problem that I do have is every once in awhile you have a winning bidder that their email doesn't work so I would offer it to the under bidder before the sale was lost, with the new rules it looks like the seller can't even see the other bidders.
the email address issue is really a non issue, when you change your name you keep your feedback and that really is worth more than any email address as a "brand name" [email protected] is a lot harder to remember than say just jjudog. I know that some people will come back and do a seller search but 3 years of selling has proved out that the over whelming number of sales are to unique buyers.
I do agree with twinsoft about ebay having crossed the line on off site sales, you would think that ebay feels that they introduced net sales single handedly and they are entitled to a cut of every sale on the net especially if you have ever sold anything on ebay...........ever. I know, I know, don't give them any ideas.
posted on February 25, 2001 09:27:13 PMrnrgroup: This morning I eMailed eBay and asked if I'd have to change my eMail address user ID, to a nick/handle name. See the response below.
[b]Hello xxxxx,
Thanks for your email.
You'll be able to keep your email address as your User ID at this time. You'll be grand fathered into this and no change will be required.
If you have any other questions, please let us know. Have a great night!
Regards,
xxxx
eBay PowerSeller Support[/b]
I thought it was a bit contradictory because of "at this time," and "no change will be required."
posted on February 25, 2001 09:42:17 PMHi Packer haven't see you around much lately! Those auctions must be keeping you busy!
It would not be difficult for eBay to eliminate "mailto"s in HTML. A software adjustment would do it.
Concerning putting an eMail address in plain text, they could block that as well by prohibiting the "@" symbol. But you could always spell-out an eMail address, such as "packeratprovider.com." BUT, then one would be in the position of breaking an eBay rule. which is OK sometimes unless your competition or the vigilante squad turns you in!
posted on February 25, 2001 10:12:33 PMgisi, I'm only repeating what eBay support reps have stated. eBay's policy regarding this matter is here. You are right, sellers are not allowed to automatically add names to a mailing list. If I read this correctly, sellers may ask customers if they wish to join an opt-out mailing list. Read the last paragraph of the section and then maybe you can explain it to me.
I've never had a mailing list, so I've never had to worry about it. However, I'm planning on starting one because I'm totally fed up with eBay's ongoing policies. And no, I wouldn't put it past eBay to conduct their own sting operations. Once my mailing list is in place, I will be sure that mailing list members specifically request to receive the mailings, and also make sure they can opt-out at any point.
(edited to add, I guess I meant opt in/out, not opt out above.)
[ edited by twinsoft on Feb 25, 2001 11:47 PM ]
I just think this whole mess is going to backfire right in eBays face.
If we have to rely on eBay to get out last minute questions to the seller we are all in big trouble.
And knowing how UNRELIABLE eBay is, I think your going to see ALL the sellers putting their e-mail addresses in their auctions so bidders can ask questions.
They will have quit a BIG job ahead of them deleting auctions and suspending sellers.
posted on February 25, 2001 10:22:35 PM
twinsoft:
like i said have a box for them to check on your confirmation email that you have them print and send with payment that says they want to be added to a mailing list.
[ edited by airguy on Feb 25, 2001 10:24 PM ]
posted on February 25, 2001 10:22:59 PM
I just wanted to add that I don't keep track of changes in eBay's policy. This is the first time I can recall any specific mention of a "mail list" on the eBay site. Judging from eBay's past and current actions, I would be surprised if they don't seek to prohibit mailing lists of all kinds (including opt in/out). No doubt they would have already, were it not that they beat several lawsuits recently with their "only a venue" defense.
posted on February 25, 2001 10:39:42 PM
Has anyone else noticed a major decrease in before-auction questions since the email change? I use to get questions all the time and have not even had one since it changed over!
posted on February 25, 2001 11:02:05 PM
It appears that ebaY has done a major backpedal on the forcing the email change issue. They have gone back to the - you can have an email address as a User ID. Wonder if the comment made at ebaY U Dallas was a float the idea and see the reaction ploy. We have heard on this board for months now that ebaY was considering it.
New users have to use a user ID for the first 30 days and then can change to an email address if they so desire. As of now, you CAN put an email link in your auctions AND a mailing list/customer database link. We ALWAYS support opt in NOT opt out services.
posted on February 26, 2001 12:18:31 AM
Just read the comment about switching to an email as an ID..
It is no longer possible to use any name with the @ symbol in it. So if anyone wanted to switch back to their email addy or register an ID using an email addy it's too late.
This mention of forcing those of us to find an ID after using nothing but our email addy for years and years really scares me.
I thought this was America ??
[ edited by kathy7 on Feb 26, 2001 12:20 AM ]
posted on February 26, 2001 04:41:47 AM
What about the email contact forms available through the various storefronts and showcases that companies are offering? I know I can have a showcase with a link to an email form for bidders to ask me questions. It works extremely fast as I tried it and my own email to myself was delivered in less than 1 minute!
posted on February 26, 2001 12:44:18 PM
With each auction, I include an invoice with an invitation to join a Pokemon Mailing list. This group of collectors help notify of upcoming items (like the release of new sets) and sales/trades between us to help with our sales. This is an OPT-IN list where the buyer is instructed to email me if interested in participating.
Its been very successful for many in the group to complete collections amongst ourselves through trading (just like one big Pokemon League) - and I've used it as a way to help move my extra inventory around.
posted on February 26, 2001 11:08:54 PM
You CAN change your email address to be your user id, BUT you MUST use the email address associated with the user id - not a different one. If you want to use a different one, change it first, then change the user id.
ebaY has reversed itself on the new registrant also. A new registrant may now change their mandatory user id to an email address once they complete the registration process. They no longer have to wait 30 days for the change.
posted on February 27, 2001 12:05:52 AMRosalinda, I registered a NEW ID with a NEW email addy this morning and was unable to use the @ symbol as part of my username. I just now tried to change my new ID to my email addy but a screen came up that said I had to wait 30 days to change my username.
I'm hoping that all of the negative comments from the boards have caused eBay to back down about not allowing email addresses to be used as ID's but I'm going to have to wait 30 days to find out.
posted on February 27, 2001 11:18:02 AM
I'm bouncing this up. I really would like to know just WHAT the new email rules are pertaining to using an email addy for a user ID.
posted on February 27, 2001 11:42:10 AM
With the sting operation...
Let them NARU someone because of offline sales...Can eBay say Class Action Suit: Restraint of Trade, Freedom of Speech and a few other commercial and federal crimes.
I work for a Bookstore. It was a Bookstore LONG before ebay was conceived. EBay canot tell us to close our doors because we sold to them and it woud be insane for them to do so. But they are trying to cow the smaller, hobby sellers into being solely eBay employees with no benefits our pay. Remember, eBay claims ONLY to be a "venue". They cannot LEGALLY control your lives or your sales methods.
Also, notice the same rules do not apply to Disney or the other Corporate Companies selling on eBay. If you purchase from them, you are on their Spamming list forever.
....Anxiously awiating my chance at the MultiMillion Dollar lawsuit against eBay.
