posted on March 1, 2001 09:02:43 PM
I have had a very eventful couple of days and am so tired of trying to figure it out, I really need someone else's opinion on this.
First of all, I admit out front, I did a stupid thing, not knowing better, (but I should have). I listed and sold phony Rolex Watch on Ebay, right in the Rolex Category. When the auction was over, right away like immediately I got an email from the winning bidder. Begging me to ship it the next day. I have a PO Pick-up once a week now, "Since everyone’s prices are going up". I list multiple auctions and it got too much to stand in the post office line with 60 packages". Even though I had just had a pick up that day, I agreed to ship it, he seemed so insistent. I wrote him and told him I thought maybe I could, that I had to go out the next day. I immediately got an answer, saying you PROMISED you would ship, blah, blah, blah. With every letter, he begged for me to give him positive feedback. In his shipping address, his name is Dr. Yet he does not have a command of the English language, definitely from somewhere else, not only can't spell, but writes money amounts like; 37$I thought the guy was obnoxious, and pushy, but I can deal with that. I thought; "This guy is like no kind of Dr I ever knew."
Anyhow I was very busy all day long and didn't get the watch mailed until about 3:30, came home and found a letter from Ebay about my listing and infringing items. I knew I blew it, and behind that letter, I had another from my buyer. Hi had got one too, and sounded quite upset. I explained to him the best I could and told him I had shipped the watch, didn't know at that point what to do. He wrote me offering to send the watch back AFTER I refunded his money. I just did nothing, put it off until today when I could think again.
Today I woke up with a letter from Rolex, demanding to know my supplier and warning me not to warn them. I bought that stupid watch on auction, a public local auction. It came in a junk lot of costume jewelry. That and several other Japan watches. This watch did say Japan, the back, Gold Plated, and I noted all this in my stupid auction. I remember saying; Would Rolex gold plate one of their watches?
Ok, I took photo's of my Auction Invoice where I bought the lot of costume jewelry, and sent it to the Rolex people, explaining that was my first and my last listing. I was upfront with them and told them my customer insisted on my shipping this and I did so before I knew anything was wrong, said he would send it back, and to please advise me what to do. Then I got another one from my buyer. I told him he could refuse the item and send it back, sit on it for a couple of days until I knew more what to do, or just mail it back to me and I would be happy to pay all costs. That is when he offered to send it back after I paid him. I have not answered him yet. I got suspicious for some reason and using the email address from his last email, I got the NRU from Ebay. I went through all the email I ever got from him, and I found he has used two different email addresses, one hot mail. Using the second address he has written to me with, I found him Checking further, I see he has only been registered since about the beginning of February. Has four positive feedback’s and I just discovered one of them is from an auction that didn't meet its reserve, it was for a Breitling Colt watch that had a starting bid of $40o, one bid for $400 and the reserve was not met. Another from someone else who has only been registered since March 1. I thought about writing one of the sellers who gave him good feedback, to see if he pulled the same thing with them, but what if it is his partner? As I said in the beginning of this, my brain is over saturated, and need someone else's opinion. I thought of writing Safe Harbor, but with the "Rolex Caper", I just don't know what to do, anyone else suspicion what I am? Would appreciate opinions.
posted on March 1, 2001 09:37:08 PM
Ummmm.....
So you [b]knowingly[/] sell a fake Rolex, and then find yourself in a jam? Huh, who'd a thunk it!
And now you want help from OTHER than your lawyer to get out?
Don't you realize that sellers like you, and folks like your Buyer are just ONE of the many reasons eBay gets so much time in the "fraud" spotlight...which makes it harded for those of us who are honest and follow the rules to get sales>
Good luck finding help!
Keith
I assume full responsibility for my actions, except
the ones that are someone else's fault.
posted on March 1, 2001 09:49:51 PM
I'm confused.
Let's see.....You sold a knock-off Rolex on eBay under the premise that it was an authentic Rolex? Now you are concerned rather your Buyer is trustworthy? How much did you sell it for - $50.00-$60.00?
Refund his payment immediately and tell him to keep it. Then, hope that Rolex doesn't come after you with a lawsuit.
posted on March 2, 2001 04:34:15 AM
dsgn: I think I understand what your concerns are regarding the sale of this particular item.
It seems that the BUYER might have known that it was a fake (more than you knew... if that's possible) and encouraged the sale of it KNOWING that you would be shut down by the Rolex VERO member. He might have even turned you in for the listing in the first place, which could explain the urgency in getting you to ship the watch THAT VERY DAY even though you had stated that you had already shipped your other packages for the day.
He could then KEEP the watch (probably purchased at a huge discount from the cost of a REAL Rolex) whether you send a refund or not.
Never-the-less.... it seems that you are in a tough situation, but I suspect that the worst part might be over.
You could hold your ground and say that you will refund upon the return of the item to you within 10 days (so that presumably you'd have it to turn over to ROLEX in the event they "require" it). If he returns the watch, then refund fully, including shipping both ways... if he doesn't return the watch, then make sure ROLEX knows where to find HIM in order to recover the watch if they wish to persue this beyond intimidating eMail threats.
You might get a negative from the buyer over this and you MIGHT NOT. If the buyer knows that he is guilty of encouraging the sale of an infirnging item, he might NOT risk being associated with the listing by leaving a transaction related feedback.
eBay has a list of potentially infirnging items for the purpose of educating sellers so that these uncomfortable situations can be avoided. You can learn more about the VERO program as well as unlawful & potentially infringing items by visiting the eBay site map, scroll to the SAFE HARBOR section under Rules & Safety.
Good Luck to you in this situation and in future trades.
posted on March 2, 2001 05:28:32 AM
So, it's illegal to sell a knock-off on ebay? I thought I read above that the seller said (in the auction) that it was made in Japan and all--in other words, not real.
Would it have been OK if it was listed in costume jewelry rather than the Rolex category?
posted on March 2, 2001 05:35:04 AM
loosecannon: Nope, it's not "o.k." to sell knock-offs in any category. If they are reported, found by VeRO or otherwise brought to the attention of eBay... illegal and possibly infringing items will be removed.
eBay usually WOMD the listing FIRST and lets the Seller ask questions LATER. *sigh*
Personally, I see nothing so terrible about selling a knock-off of anything if it's represented as such. But it's probably better to not allow it at all.
posted on March 2, 2001 08:44:38 AM
A few years ago, I watched an expose' of the "knockoff" industry. It was very interesting. This is a billion $ industry.
Turns out it illegal to manufacture them, export them, import them, wholesale them, sell them and BUY THEM!!!!
Buying a known knockoff is just as illegal as buying stolen goods!
It's hard to enforce. Most consumers don't mind buying a "name brand" even if they know it isn't. They get the "look" without the cost. That's why it's a billion $ industry!
Many companies actively persue legal action against offenders. I really hope you have heard the last from Rolex, but don't be shocked it you haven't. In some cases they go after the only party they can find which is the "retailer"! Since you did not buy from a wholesaler, and you only had 1 watch, maybe they will just drop it.
If I were you, I would just forget the buyer AND the entire transaction. Hopefully everyone else will too!
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Mar 2, 2001 08:49 AM ]
I see by your post you were very diligent about finding out all the information you could about your buyer. You mention a few things about this buyers' activity and buying behavior on ebay. By reading this, I can tell you sat down at your computer and did a bit of research on your buyers buying habits and such.
NOW.
If you had bothered to take the time and did half of the research you did on this buyer towards your watch, you would not be in this situation now. Would you ?
You sold a FAKE, BOOTLEG, KNOCK-OFF, BOGUS rolex watch !
Now deal with the consequences.
I would think that someone who was intelligent enough to do research on a buyer would be intelligent enough to do a bit of research on an item of such nature as a ROLEX watch.
I am sorry, but you do not sound like a moron to me, so I find it very hard to swallow that you did not know the watch was fake.
posted on March 2, 2001 09:01:27 AM
Its Friday afternoon in NYC. I can walk out of my office for lunch, and buy knockoffs of Rolex, Fossil, Tag Heuer and other watches, fake bags by DKNY, Coach, Dooney&Bourke, etc., knockoffs of clothing by Polo, Hilfinger, etc. and $10 videos of movies that just came out in the theaters last week (not to mention $5 cds of everyone and anyone). All of these are sold on the sidewalks and streetcorners, in full view of police. During rush hour, when the sidewalks are too crowded, the vendors are made to move along. The rest of the time, the cops look the other way.
Yes, there's a market for knockoff merchandise. I've been told the reason the police don't hassle the small scale street vendors is cause they're too busy building cases against the manufacturers, importers, and wholesalers of these knockoffs.
Anyone want a watch with their sandwich? Happy weekend. . .
rca001
posted on March 2, 2001 10:59:50 AM
We had a big bust at a local Flea Market in Ohio a couple of summers ago. I think they were selling Tommy stuff. We happened to be there that day, police all over the place, yellow tape all around the booths in question.
posted on March 2, 2001 11:41:06 AM
I honestly didn't know it was illegal to manufacture knock-offs. It happens with just about anything valuable though.
The Japanese and others have been doing this for decades if not longer.
They have copied virtually every popular guitar design ever made and some have been very close. The American and European manufacturers could only go after them for near exact copies. If they were merely close copies there wasn't much they could do about it. That's what I have read anyway.
posted on March 2, 2001 12:00:05 PM
An interesting aside:
American guitar companies, in the old if-you-can't-beat-'em-join-'em fashion, in the 1980's actually went into business with a few Japanese companies to produce lower cost versions of their own American made models overseas. Now the American companies are actually making money on some of the knock-off business.
posted on March 2, 2001 09:35:08 PM
I have no sympathy for anyone selling counterfiet merchandise.
In fact, I really hope that eBay starts cracking down on these folks and cleaning up the categories.
I am amazed how many sellers get away with selling fakes, thinking that if they just say so upfront that it is okay.
It's actually a federal offense to sell counterfeit branded merchandise.
A lot of buyers are getting burned. And these buyers are turning away from eBay and turning others away as well. This is the one instance where I support VERO.
But the wildest part about this thread is that the seller scammed a buyer and is now worried that the buyer is scamming him.
