posted on March 16, 2001 07:54:43 PM
Lately it seems that a lot of sellers don't leave feedback when buyer fulfills obligation. Recently I paid for the auction using BillPoint. Received the item 2 weeks later. The seller has a feedback rating of over 400. Looking at the feedback they've left only a handful since May 99. Total left is under 25, which includes a handful of complaints which appear unjustified. I'm tempted to leave a neutral just stating product is fine. Nothing else. Anyone who left comment about slow delivery received negative. What type of feedback does this seller deserve?
posted on March 16, 2001 08:30:12 PMLately it seems that a lot of sellers don't leave feedback when buyer fulfills obligation.
I have had just the opposite happen. As a seller, I've left 200+ more feedbacks than I've received, but as a buyer, I've received exactly the same number as I have left.
posted on March 16, 2001 08:34:14 PM
The seller deserves positive feedback if YOUR transaction with him was positive. How he handled all of his previous transactions and the corresponding feedback has ZERO bearing on YOUR transaction. And if he chooses not to leave feedback for you, if the transaction was a postive one you should leave a positive for him or none at all.
posted on March 16, 2001 09:25:28 PM
I can dig it. I have a seller who hasn't left me any feedback on any one of our three transactions, and it's left me feeling a little peevish.
I bought something fairly pricey (more than $200) about a month ago, paid promptly with a postal money order, as requested, and left glowing feedback immediately upon receiving the item, which, admittedly, was pretty nice.
About two weeks later, I won two more items from this seller, totalling around $150. I received their stock EOA notice, stating that they only accepted postal money orders and cashier's checks. I e-mailed them and told them I'd send out a postal money order that day, that I loved the last thing I got from them, and that maybe some day they might consider changing their mo/cashier's check policy for repeat buyers, like me.
So far, no feedback. I checked, and the seller has left feedback for other buyers who won auctions at around the same time I did.
So -- does anyone think I cheesed off the seller with my cashier's check/money order suggestion? Honest, it was worded so politely that Miss Manners would have been proud.
I'm not getting my knickers in a twist over this, but I'm definitely not leaving the seller any more feedback (or bidding in any more of their auctions) until I get some nice feedback of my very own.
posted on March 16, 2001 10:42:08 PMI'm not getting my knickers in a twist over this, but I'm definitely not leaving the seller any more feedback (or bidding in any more of their auctions) until I get some nice feedback of my very own.
I just don't understand why feedback means so much to some people. OK, I can understand a newbie caring about it, but once your feedback is in double digits one more positive isn't going to make any real difference. As a buyer, I don't check if the seller left me feedback before I leave some for him and I don't check after I've left feedback for him. All that I care about is if the merchandise and delivery time met my satisfaction. As long as he offers me quality merchandise at a good price I'll buy from him over and over even if he never leaves me feedback.
posted on March 16, 2001 10:57:48 PM
2/3rds of the sellers I've purchased from left me feedback on receipt of my payment. I've always left positive feedback for them. The 1/3rd that don't operate that way don't get feedback from me as a buyer.
As a seller I leave positive feedback on receipt of payment or in the case of a personal check, when it clears.
There are no hard rules from eBay. Everyone has to make up their own. Those are my rules.
posted on March 17, 2001 04:18:58 AM
Many sellers (myself included) leave feedback based on the entire transaction since feedback is transacation related. The probable reason for your not receiving feedback is you not letting the seller know that the transaction is completed. A simple email along the lines of:
"Item received and I'm happy with it."
will suffice. If you're not happy with it (or with the transaction in general), tell the seller that and give the seller a chance to MAKE you happy with it.
The transaction isn't complete until the seller hears from the buyer. And since feedback is transaction related, no accurate feedback can be left.
posted on March 17, 2001 05:34:19 AM
the answer to your question is within yourself.
you already know that the seller is likely to leave you negative feedback if you leave them anything but positive and probably likely to leave you positive if you leave them positive.
now, you have to balance the difference between the feedback given you and the feedback you give.
is it more important to you that other buyers are warned about the seller by means of your neutral or negative feedback? or, is more important to you that you not get a negative in return?
I have had the same type decisions to make and have gone both ways depending on the circumstances of the transaction or what mood I was in at the time. sometimes, I feel like I would rather leave negative feedback and to heck with the neg. I'm going to get in return. other times, there is no way I'm going to risk getting a negative and leave the issue alone.
posted on March 17, 2001 07:45:26 AM" ... and probably likely to leave you positive if you leave them positive." - pcalton
atlantis104 says that the seller's received over 400 fb and has left less than 25. If a positive is left it's unlikely it will be reciprocated.
If you received the item in condition described and in a timely manner, there's really nothing to complain about. Since the seller doesn't seem to feel the need for doing people the courtesy of leaving feedback, I would not bother to leave any for him. And yeah, if you leave the neutral, it sounds like you'll be getting an undeserved negative in return.
[ edited by triplesnack on Mar 17, 2001 07:46 AM ]
posted on March 17, 2001 08:07:40 AM
If atlantis104 leaves a neutral fb, he or she deserves a negative in return? I'm dubious dubya.
I guess I view feedback as a courtesy, like saying "thank you" to the cashier after buying something at the store.
Of course it depends on exactly what you say, but in general:
- Positive feedback is a way of saying, "Thanks, I enjoyed doing business with you."
- Negative feedback means, "I don't like doing business with you."
My analogy for a situation where atlantis104's neutral "Product is fine" is responded to by a negative from the seller would be: the clerk hands me my purchase, says "Here you go" and I say "OK." And the clerk then shouts, "And don't come back!" Certainly the clerk's perogative, but hardly "deserved," and definitely not good for business.
[ edited by triplesnack on Mar 17, 2001 08:33 AM ]
posted on March 17, 2001 08:38:25 AM
I think if sellers leave feedback ONLY after the buyer does -- then they are most likely the type of person who believes in retaliation. This is awful!
I am a seller -- and if a buyer responds to my WBN and sends payment promptly -- then that buyer fulfilled their part of the deal and should be left appropriate feedback.
I believe in feedback. I use it all the time. When my buyers honor their part of the deal I leave feedback immediately. Then I ship and send an email saying so -- and in that email I ask them to leave feedback for me when their item arrives safely.
As a buyer it really steams me that a seller would wait to leave feedback only after I do. What's up with the wait if I honored my part of the deal?
Here is my process.
1) Auction ends - I send WBN and ask for a reply (so I know they got it and can get the package ready for speedy shipment)
2) Reply to WBN - I thank them and remind them of my forms of payment and that I ship ASAP when payment arrives.
3) Payment arrives - I notify them and let them know that the item will ship ASAP and that I am leaving feedback for them - I ask them to do the same when item arrives safely.
Their part of the deal is done. My feedback should be representative of MY part of the deal.
Was the item as described?
Was the item packaged well?
Was the cost of shipping/handling what I charged them and not a penny more?
Did the item arrive in a timely manner?
If the answer is "yes" to those questions then I deserve a Positive. If "NO" to one or two of those question then I deserve a Neutral. If "NO" to more than two of those questions then I deserve a Negative.
But to withhold feedback (as a seller) until the buyer leaves theirs first is WRONG in my opinion.
That's my story and I am sticking to it! I have had multiple emails when the transaction is all said and done saying that they wished all sellers were more like me! I love that and I pride myself at being an honorable seller. That is the type of person I want to be!
posted on March 17, 2001 09:04:04 AM
With all due respect to others opinions...
As a seller, I use to always leave positive feedback when I received payment because I figured the buyer had done their part.
However, my thinking has changed some due to some buyers jumping the gun and leaving me bad feedback without contacting me first, without giving me any chance to correct the situation if I made an error, and giving me unwarranted bad feedback because of postal delays etc...
one buyer gave me negative feedback because the postal carrier left a pink "attempted to deliver" notice on their door and they had to go the post office to get their package ¿¿¿
another buyer gave me negative feedback because she thought eighty characters was not enough to leave any meaningful feedback
and, I received negative feedback from one buyer because he said his fingernails were not long enough to peal the back off a bumper sticker they had bought from me !!!
I could go on and on.... - SHEESH!
These days I view it differently. IMO, the buyer's end of the transaction is Not over just because they have paid. The buyers have a responsibility to try to work out differences.
I still give my regular and repeat customers immediate feedback upon receipt of payment, sometimes even before payment. But, these days I wait on about 50% of my transactions to leave feedback for the buyers. Yes, I do it as a leverage to work things out if there are problems.
posted on March 17, 2001 09:17:55 AMYes, I do it as a leverage to work things out if there are problems.
This is my point exactly - I personally don't want to be this kind of seller. But if it works for you then by all means do it.
I would rather write a follow-up or response to those transactions which would speak for themselves.
In my opinion again - I think those negs would have been left anyway. Regardless if you waited or not. They were so silly in nature that I think they would have been there if you would have waited - They may have also included that you didn't leave feedback (or honor your part of the deal).
Doesn't eBay® have a process in place? Steps to follow?
posted on March 17, 2001 09:27:52 AM
eBay does say this...
"Please try resolving disputes by email or telephone. eBay cannot remove a comment once it is submitted, nor edit a user's Feedback Profile. For this reason, we encourage you to contact your trading partner directly by email or by telephone before leaving a negative Feedback comment. Simple misunderstandings are often resolved through direct communication.
posted on March 17, 2001 09:39:20 AM
As a seller I leave FB when I receive the payment. Should a problem develop, I will work it out with them.
As a buyer, I give FB from my 'recently bid on' auctions page. If the seller hasn't left me FB after I've emailed and let them know I received and was pleased with their item, I don't leave FB either.
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 17, 2001 09:41 AM ]
posted on March 17, 2001 11:54:34 AMIf atlantis104 leaves a neutral fb, he or she deserves a negative in return? I'm dubious dubya.
If the seller ships the correct item promptly and handles the transaction well but DOESN'T leave feedback, he in no way deserves a neutral feedback.
Feedback is supposed to be based on the transaction, not on whether the seller leaves feedback or not. If the bidder is happy with the transaction yet leaves a neutral feedback, he deserves a neg in return for being petty and vindictive.
posted on March 17, 2001 03:54:44 PM
Dubya -
I am unclear about something in your posts. I hope you can clear up this confusion for me. Am I to beleive that you feel feedback is transaction related?
Just curious.
posted on March 17, 2001 04:13:03 PM
Lisa,--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think if sellers leave feedback ONLY after the buyer does -- then they are most likely the type of person who believes in retaliation"
This is really NOT the case! I used to leave feedback the minute I got paid. I was always confident that my items were as described and packaged well. But I, too, have had my share of non=communicative bidders feeling free to respond to my positive comments with negative comments or "feedback extortion." I wish this were a fair and reasonable world, where we could all do what is right and just, and trus others to do the same. But I am tired of getting burned by folks who do NOT play by the rules. Once burned, twice shy! I now wait for the bidder to say "Thank you." before I say "You're welcome," A sad necessity, not retaliation.
posted on March 18, 2001 08:19:29 AM"Feedback is supposed to be based on the transaction, not on whether the seller leaves feedback or not." - dubyasdaman
I agree with you on that point. But if the seller leaves a negative because the buyer left him a neutral, isn't this the same thing? Basing your feedback on the FB the other person left or did not leave, and not the transaction itself?
atlantis104's proposed, "Product is fine." comment only addresses the transaction. And a neutral is not a negative. Responding to a neutral with a negative in this case would be retaliatory, and certainly far more "petty and vindictive" than the neutral atlantis104 would have left in the first place.
posted on March 18, 2001 01:04:01 PM
A seller isn't hurt by a neutral. I don't think a buyer should receive a negative, which does hurt the buyer, for leaving a neutral. And I don't think leaving a neutral is petty. I see neutral as average. I've used it before if the seller takes a long time to get a package to me, but it does get here in one piece, for example. If a seller waits a week or more to mail something after I paid with paypal for example (which I can tell by the postmark) he should be happy to receive a neutral and not a negative for slow shipment.
posted on March 18, 2001 02:27:11 PMBut if the seller leaves a negative because the buyer left him a neutral, isn't this the same thing?
I can understand your point here and you are correct. So now what to do? How would you recommend that the seller respond to the undeserved neutral? Another neutral? A positive stated like a negative or a neutral. There is no way that I would let an undeserved neg go unpunished in any way.
A neutral does in fact hurt a seller. The way the feedback system works (as opposed to how it should work), anything less than a positive is really a negative.
two weeks seems like a long time to me, but wasn't there a thread recently about the need to hold billpoint payments? or was that bidpay? lol, what do i know; i only take paypal, money orders and the occasional check.
anyway, if i were pleased with the item, and didn't think 2 weeks was unreasonable, but the seller rarely left feedback for others, i'd probably assume s/he didn't think feedback was important so would leave none and expect none. if i were pleased with the item but felt two weeks was too slow, i'd feel a neutral was justified. but if the seller had a record of leaving retallitory negs for such neutrals, i'd probably think it wasn't bad enough an experience for me to have the nearly-assured neg on my record, and leave no feedback.
dubya,
aren't you the seller who never has and never will leave a neg? if so, how would you punish an undeserved neg?
posted on March 18, 2001 03:25:39 PM
I never have and never will leave a neg for a deadbeat. It just isn't worth it. But if I receive an undeserved neg from a bidder, I'll leave one in a heartbeat.
ok, i gotcha now. i'd thought you never leave negs, period.
so far :knock wood: i've only had one deadbeat, and i did neg her - calmly, almost nicely. i figure she deserved it for not holding up her end of the bargain; apparently she agreed . i know it doesn't always work this way. i know i was risking getting an undeserved neg and that bidders may not bother to check her fb (now at -2) or my response. but i really appreciate ebayers who leave appropriate feedback so *i* know who to stay away from, so i do the same.
i also understand that in the area you sell, you've found negs make a difference on if a buyer buys from you or your competitors who have negs. whatever works for you.
I do feel that 2 weeks is too long to wait for a product paid via billpoint. I've received items from other sellers in under three days. But for the reasons you stated, I don't think I'll leave any feedback since I would have left a neutral and this individual instinctly leaves negative feedback in return.
I've been using ebay since 1997 and have left 5 negatives for deadbeat bidders and never received a retallitory. Don't feel like getting a first for a sellers poor shipping.
