dubyasdaman
|
posted on March 21, 2001 01:17:31 PM
Step 1:
Pay the $5 and become ID verified. This will allow you to list Dutch auctions.
Step 2:
Write a short "How To" guide (3-6 pages) on any subject. The actual subject is almost irrelevant, as long as it is something that lots of people would like to learn how to do. An example might be "How to shave 10 strokes off of your golf scores" (use your imagination here).
Step 3:
List this guide at 1¢ in a dutch auction, quantity 250 or so. State in the auction that the guide will be distributed via email and therefore the shipping fee is $0. Since you aren't charging a shipping fee you can't be accused of fee avoidance.
Step 4:
When the auction ends, send the winning bidders EOAs which state something to this effect:
"Congratulations. You're a winner of my ebaY auction #123456789. I have a deal for you that you simply can't pass up! I know that making payment for 1¢ is a hassle. If you will leave positive feedback for me right now, I will leave glowing positive feedback for you in return. I will also waive the winning bid price for this guide and send it to you right away via email. Now how can you turn down a deal like this?
Of course if you prefer to complete the transaction in the traditional way, here are you payment options..."
A friend of mine did this 6 weeks ago. His feedback went from 0 to 260 (all positive) in less than 3 weeks.
|
capriole
|
posted on March 21, 2001 01:19:15 PM
Nice
(thinking of putting some manuals up for auction)
[ edited by capriole on Mar 21, 2001 01:20 PM ]
|
lanefamily
|
posted on March 21, 2001 01:34:57 PM
Think eBay would let me put out a feedback auction? I mean list like 1000 items for .50 or maybe $1.00 each. Bid on it and send me the money and I will leave you feedback.
If I could sell all 1000 of them at $1.00 each I might come out ahead $1000 - listing fee - eBay FVF - AW listing fee - AW FVF - Bank fee for 1000 checks deposit - insert yours here if you would like a fee.
Hummmmmm
Jim
|
NearTheSea
|
posted on March 21, 2001 01:38:01 PM
I'm sorry, I don't think I like that idea.
I suppose, but not sure its 'legal' at ebay, but I guess I'm one that passes real fast by the 'how to get rich schemes' , I know, 'How to improve your golf skills' isn't a get rich scheme. I don't know, unless you really have a good manual or book, I don't think so.
I also don't like the way the EOA is worded about positive fb in lieu of money for 'item'.
A fast way to build up your feedback, is to bid and win a lot of the 'inexpensive' jewelery. You can build it up quickly, maybe not overnight.
I have a second ID and built some feedback this way. Also used it to buy some gifts for people, who also were on ebay, so they wouldn't know what I was bidding on 
[email protected]
|
dubyasdaman
|
posted on March 21, 2001 01:42:43 PM
I'm not passing judgement on whether this method is "right" or "wrong". But it DOES work as my friend has proven. And it's a LOT cheaper and a LOT faster than buying 300 pieces of costume jewelry (not to mention tons less hassle).
Just out of curiousity, why would it not be legal (or even borderline)? There is no fee avoidance involved (using ebaY's definition). You're selling a piece of information for 1¢. What could be illegal (ebaYwise) about it?
[ edited by dubyasdaman on Mar 21, 2001 01:45 PM ]
|
tomwiii
|
posted on March 21, 2001 01:47:52 PM
yuck...
|
NearTheSea
|
posted on March 21, 2001 01:57:12 PM
It may not be illegal, but I don't like the idea.... sorry..
[email protected]
|
capriole
|
posted on March 21, 2001 02:03:22 PM
I think it's feedback padding.
If I sell a photocopy of a manual, I will sell it for the cost that is fairmarket. Plus bidders will know what they are getting. I know that feedback circle jerking was one reason it went transaction only.
I agree with tomwii.
yuck!
|
dubyasdaman
|
posted on March 21, 2001 02:09:32 PM
tomwiii, NearTheSea, capriole:
Objections noted. Thanks.
Anyone else?
|
capriole
|
posted on March 21, 2001 02:22:29 PM
Hey Dubya,
I know you can't post your friends ID,
but email me, I am curious:
[email protected]
No I won't play netcop.
I can't find anything in close auctions that fit that bill.
I am curious, I have found a few that look strange.
Are you just vetting an idea? Is your "friend" for real?
In the manual market some go for exorbitant amounts. Others don't.
Dutch auctioning them would only serve to drive the price down.
Then there's the fact that if I do massive one cent auctions for a manual photocopy I have a competator who gets PO'd and complains about copyright...ack.
What if a bidder decides this one centavo item is really just 50 paragraphs pulled out of a golfer mag.
Or feels it's a ripoff.
Bidders/sellers/feedback padders would have to be in collusion with the seller, silent or not, because the cost etc is phony.
So, tell the truth, is this just an idea? If it's real, I am very curious. email me so I can look. Even old auctions are fine.
|
dubyasdaman
|
posted on March 21, 2001 02:37:37 PM
Are you just vetting an idea?
No.
Is your "friend" for real?
Yes.
In the manual market some go for exorbitant amounts. Others don't. Dutch auctioning them would only serve to drive the price down.
Probably true but it doesn't really matter. The intent here is to quickly build feedback, not make money.
Then there's the fact that if I do massive one cent auctions for a manual photocopy I have a competator who gets PO'd and complains about copyright...ack.
I'm talking about writing a simple guide on your own. Everyone knows a lot about something that others would like to learn.
What if a bidder decides this one centavo item is really just 50 paragraphs pulled out of a golfer mag. Or feels it's a ripoff.
Why would he feel it's a ripoff if he spends no money? And if you write the guide yourself it isn't plagiarism.
Bidders/sellers/feedback padders would have to be in collusion with the seller, silent or not, because the cost etc is phony.
Good point. But it never came up (as far as I know) in my friend's case.
So, tell the truth, is this just an idea? If it's real, I am very curious. email me so I can look. Even old auctions are fine.
No, this really happened. I'll ask him in the morning if he would mind my giving you have his user ID. If he says go ahead, I'll send it to you.
The only reason I posted this info is because there are a lot of threads where sellers give newbie sellers advice on building feedback quickly. My friend tried this and it worked for him. It may not work for anyone else (but I can't see any reasons why it wouldn't). And I see no distinction between buying 300 cheap items with the sole intention of building feedback and the approach used by my friend (ethics-wise).
|
engelskdansk
|
posted on March 21, 2001 02:38:40 PM
I'd rather deal with a 0 feedback seller than one who achieved their numbers through selling nothing. If I looked at their transactions and saw that kind of flim-flam going on I would go near them with a ten-foot pole!!
|
dubyasdaman
|
posted on March 21, 2001 02:46:19 PM
engelskdansk:
He didn't sell "nothing". He sold information that 300 odd bidders had enough interest in to place a bid and complete the transaction.
Why would you consider this a flim-flam? How is this different than buying 300 25¢ pieces of costume jewelry when the sole intent in both cases is to quickly build feedback? I'm not trying to be contentious here, I just don't see the difference.
|
amy
|
posted on March 21, 2001 03:00:27 PM
Back in the fall of 1998 that scheme was all the rage on ebay. A number of sellers went from 0 to high number feedback in days.
Ebay NARUed them...feedback padding I believe they called it.
|
dubyasdaman
|
posted on March 21, 2001 03:08:55 PM
amy:
Interesting. I'll pass that info on to my friend. I just wonder how ebaY found out about it. Those sellers must have run into someone with a vendetta.
[ edited by dubyasdaman on Mar 21, 2001 03:10 PM ]
|
NearTheSea
|
posted on March 21, 2001 03:12:59 PM
amy I remember that, and before they implemented transactional only, well.... won't even go there....
What is wrong with building feedback the old fashioned way?
Its taken me over 4 years, I show (1010) and 1115 positives altogether with 3 negs.
I haven't done it as hard and heavy as a lot of folks, but I earned every one of those feedback.
Everyone starts at 0. Fine, get verified, thats great. I don't mind 0 fb bidders.
Like I said in another post, most seem eager and happy to have won!
I just do not like the idea your freind has, and did.
[email protected]
|
dubyasdaman
|
posted on March 21, 2001 03:20:21 PM
NearTheSea:
I understand your opinion on this issue and on a personal level I agree with it. I built my feedback (1200+ on 2 accounts) the old-fashioned way too and I wouldn't go the route that my friend took. But take it he did and so far all is well for him.
For a new seller looking to build feedback quickly this is an option, not a suggestion. I saw it tried, I saw it work. That's all. If someone else wants to try it they do so at their own risk. But then again, the risk is minimal. Even if a person does it and ebay NARU's them they can just open another account and go from there. Sellers do it all the time.
|
amy
|
posted on March 21, 2001 04:31:48 PM
Dubyasdamon...let's say they ran into a group of Q&A regulars who were incensed when they saw it...and coupled with unrelenting emails to safe harbor and some heavy feedback bombing...the Q&A folk managed to shut some of the sellers down who were doing this. Others were warned.
|
wbfan
|
posted on March 21, 2001 04:43:42 PM
Robbing a bank "works", but it is not the legal or right thing to do either.
|
sun818
|
posted on March 21, 2001 04:45:23 PM
I'm a seller more than buyer on eBay, but I am writing this from the perspective of a buyer. No offense intented to anyone.
I wish eBay would make available the final bid amount and running average for each transaction feedback.
This provides a few features:
1. Feedback padding. Buyer can see if the seller is feedback padding or not. If the average feeback "price value" is a penny then they are "selling nothing" as engelskdansk put it.
2. Buyer protection from being ripped off by sellers who may offer non-existent high priced items after feedback padding. Shill bidding would still be possible, but what criminal is going invest Final Value Fees to rip people off later?
3. Actual shipping. Buyer may get actual shipping costs quoted more often as seller's feedback will also be judged by the final bid amount and not just by number of feedbacks.
Any thoughts anyone?
|
dubyasdaman
|
posted on March 21, 2001 05:42:32 PM
Thanks amy. That sounds reasonable. I'll tell my friend to be careful. Of course if someone was planning to "turn him in", surely they would have done it by now. He has several "regular" transactions under his belt since the 2 auctions that he used to build his feedback.
By the way, the guide that he is selling is not junk. It's a "how-to" guide based on his long-term involvement with a hobby. He is selling the same info in dutch auctions as we speak with good bidding at a very profitable price. And the feedback that he is receiving is very good as well. No unhappy customers so far (that I am aware of).
[ edited by dubyasdaman on Mar 21, 2001 05:51 PM ]
|
preacher4u
|
posted on March 21, 2001 06:18:46 PM
http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=336418
------------------------------------------------------------
How can they hear, when you're screaming in digital?
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/preacher4u/
|
dubyasdaman
|
posted on March 21, 2001 06:33:19 PM
Thanks preacher. Does anyone know the outcome of the "Hollywood Diet" auction?
|
tomwiii
|
posted on March 21, 2001 07:10:38 PM
yuck... yuck...
|
Glenda
|
posted on March 21, 2001 07:32:48 PM
dubyasdaman
It would take only one person forwarding that "invoice" to Safe Harbor, and your friend wouldn't have an account anymore.
It would fall under this policy violation:
"Feedback solicitation - Offering to sell feedback, trade feedback undeservedly, or buy feedback."
|
CAgrrl
|
posted on March 21, 2001 07:33:18 PM
I personally don't think it's worth wasting a lot of time and money trying to build up your feedback like that.
Write a whole manual? No way! I'd rather spend my time selling real items at a real profit. Your friend paid $78 (probably more if he sold to some people who never left the feedback) not to mention spent a lot of valuable time in the process. NOT WORTH IT!!!
I started selling when I had something like 5 positives from buying. Low feedback never hurt me a bit. If you need to build up your feedback I think it's better to just sell tangible, inexpensive items in the beginning. Sure, people are going to be skeptical about buying high ticket items from a 0 FB seller but that's why you start out by selling small things that no one will worry too much about, and then if you want to progress to selling larger items you'll have a track record.
If I did spend the time to write a manual, you can bet I'd sell it for more than positive feedback. Just my opinion.
|
dubyasdaman
|
posted on March 21, 2001 07:42:09 PM
CAgrrl:
He evidently disagreed or he wouldn't have spent the money or time to gain the feedback. He went from 0 feedback to ~300 in a few weeks. It must have been worth it to him. BTW, where did your $78 figure come from? He spent much less than that ($5-6 total maybe?).
Glenda:
Thanks for the info. Lucky for him he wasn't turned in.
[ edited by dubyasdaman on Mar 21, 2001 07:45 PM ]
|
dubyasdaman
|
posted on March 21, 2001 07:52:27 PM
capriole:
My friend read the postings in this thread and decided that it wouldn't be in his best interest to let you see his auctions (I wonder why?)...
|
CAgrrl
|
posted on March 23, 2001 05:32:09 AM
oh, sorry. I missed the "dutch auctions" part. I was calculating without taking that into account. But the money wasn't the only issue, really I think the time is more valuable than the money. That is just my opinion either way. To me, I don't think 300 feedback is a necessity to sell. (I do have over 300 pos FB myself with no negs, just to put things in perspective though.)
|
