posted on March 30, 2001 09:08:00 AM
OK...I just dont get it. What on earth is so hard about filling out the WBN form? Seems alot of buyers just dont get it! UGH!
posted on March 30, 2001 09:22:56 AM
Well, what's the solution? Maybe you shouldn't be using the form. Insisting on procedures that your bidders can't follow, or don't want to follow, can only decrease your profits. Why not give people what they want?
I recently saw a TOS where the seller complained about people who would not fill out his Andale form. He said that bidding on his auction signified the bidder's agreement to use the form. I wonder how many sales that guy is losing.
posted on March 30, 2001 09:47:28 AM
Lots of people *do not like* the WBN's that require them to fill in their personal information at a third party website. Who knows what these sites do with the information?? There have been many threads here where bidders have stated that they refuse to bid on Andale seller's auctions specifically for that reason. Many also feel that it is the seller's job to do the data entry, not theirs. Some also view it as impersonal.
I use auction management software that simply allows me to cut-and-paste the bidder's shipping info or manually enter it.
posted on March 30, 2001 09:51:40 AM
Ive started doing that (manually entering shipping info into STEP 2-the WBN response) but what I was saying is that some buyers dont understand how to fill it out..not that they dont want to.
posted on March 30, 2001 10:02:24 AM
Maybe they just don't want to learn how.
I know it sounds stupid to some, but I have bought several items from a certain seller. A few days ago I went and checked their auctions out again, and now they use Andale. I will probably never look at their auctions agian. Why? Because I don't like the Andale way of doing things.
I bid and won a auction where the seller used Andale. I didn't like it, but I filled out the form. I won the bid, so I complied with the terms. I didn't even know what Andale was then. Now that I do, I will not bid on auctions where sellers insist on using it.
posted on March 30, 2001 10:21:51 AM
WEll..I changed my winning bidder notification giving the choice of filling out the form for faster processing or emailing me directly with their shipping info and method of payment (which will allow me to manually input this info the respose area here on auctionwatch.
By the way..I dont really know too much about Andale but whats so bad about it?
posted on March 30, 2001 10:38:31 AM
Hi there,
For the people new to computers, or techno challenged 'cut and paste' is an overwhelming thing. I once walked a buyer through it step by painful step because she wanted to, but was going to wait until her teenage kids got home. She was so excited when she did it she couldn't wait to tell them.
Those of us who've been on computers for years forget what it was like with that first computer that you were afraid to touch, never mind push a couple of keys.
At any rate since I put in that 'if for any reason you're not comfortable using this form, just e-mail me and I'll take care of it', I'm finding more people using it and those that don't want to e-mail with a much friendlier tone than they used to.
posted on March 30, 2001 02:31:13 PMkatmommy I am a buyer who "gets it" (over 200 purchases without a neg) and I refuse to use these online forms for two reasons:
1. I don't have a clue what the third party web site is doing with my personal information.
2. I am NOT here to do a seller's bookkeeping.
I always reply with an email containing all of the necessary contact information. I also include a note stating the above reasons and request the seller NOT enter my information into the online database.
If I found out a seller entered my information into the form after I asked them not to, I would NEG the seller big time.
Greg
P.S. I might also be tempted to post the sellers email address on NNTP. Spam City. Since this may be what the seller just did to me by entering the information into the online database.
posted on March 30, 2001 03:02:56 PM
A different twist on this:
I use a different auction service now, but the idea is the same about the WBNs and recording info that way.
I recently just quit even asking people to fill out a form, and also don't even record their info there at all. I am surprised, but it has saved me so much time! Now I'm not frustrated by buyers who don't fill out the form. I ask them to include their address with payment, and some of them email it anyway. If they email it, I don't waste time copying the address into their form. MOST buyers include their address with their payment, and I never even have to look online for it. Am I making sense? So for me (100+ auctions a week), something that was designed to save time, and on paper seems like it WOULD save time, actually costs me more time and frustration. Try it, you'll be surprised.
posted on March 30, 2001 06:28:45 PM
If I see in an auction listing that the seller uses Andale or ANY other post-auction automated service, I hit the back-button immediately. Every time. It doesn't matter how much I want the item. I will not bid on it.
posted on March 31, 2001 05:04:13 AM
I'm confused..doesnt everyone here use auctionwatch to manage their auctions? Isnt that the point? I can deal without the form being filled out (actually..I recently found out that several buyers are filling it out but never hitting SEND NOW!)..and yes I got really frustrated because there was no communication from the buyer at all! Even if they didnt want to fill out the form, there was still NO communication via email.
posted on March 31, 2001 05:22:44 AM
I'm willing to fill out the forms for you if you are willing to pay me for online data entry ... $50 hour with a 2-hour minimum, payable in advance via moneyzap.com
The online auction management sites have LOUSY privacy policies from a buyer standpoint, and most of them do not mention buyers at all. And many of them have confusing and buggy forms that are hard to understand or crash browsers.
katmommy
"which will allow me to manually input this info the respose area here on auctionwatch"
Are you aware that that violates my right of privacy according to the FTC? As you cannot say what use the site will make of that information, you have no legal right to enter it without my INFORMED CONSENT. (and I always say no)
The "thanks for filling out the form" email from the third-party site is a giveaway that the seller is manually entering buyers' personal data into a site the buyer wishes to avoid uisng. Rude seller, very rude seller. Seller would get neg for placing my personal inform,aiton onto a web site.
How do I handle other sites? I lie! I have a different profile for every site that requires personal information ... age, sex, income, address and phone number are all false.
posted on March 31, 2001 09:43:35 AM
I no longer use Auctionwatch listing program or picture hosting since the fees went into place. I continue to lurk the boards because I find valuable info here.
I've also done my own email EOA notices - although I'm willing to try Paypal's version IF I can make it work for me the way I need to... that has yet to be seen.
posted on March 31, 2001 10:57:30 AM
I just came across one of these andale sellers.
Fancy background, table setup of all sorts of stuff about them, their business, the stuff you have to do if you are a lucky winner, their ebay power seller logo. A hit counter that took forever to download. Thank goodness I don't have a sound card in my PC - there was probably music playing.
However, while they were caught up in all their web decoration, they neglected to include a picture of the item. They are probably wondering why what should be a $400 item is only up to $58 with only a few hours to go.
posted on March 31, 2001 08:13:35 PM
I am sorry but I do use AW's automated EOA's, which have made my life so much easier and I just don't get where buyers think they are doing the data entry for the seller. You have to type you name and address somewhere! You can type it all and send it in an email, or type it on the form and hit send. Maybe there is something I am missing, but what is the difference?
I will add that I understand the privacy issue, but gimme a break most people have given their personal info to some site on the web(ebay), and it only takes one...just like ordering a catalog through snail mail.
[ edited by lorndav on Mar 31, 2001 08:18 PM ]
posted on March 31, 2001 09:25:18 PMYou have to type you name and address somewhere! You can type it all and send it in an email, or type it on the form and hit send. Maybe there is something I am missing, but what is the difference?
Yes, I did have to type it, but only once. I have a typed response letter that I send as a reply to the seller's EOA notice which includes my name, address, and eBay id. It takes 3 clicks of a mouse and about 5 seconds. The message goes into my outbox, and gets sent automatically the next time I go online.
Online forms are another matter. To use them, I would have to enter this same information every time I win an auction, and from what I've see of several of them, no two of them are alike.
This also assumes that I am online to do so, which, in actuality, is not always the case. I typically download all my email, then disconnect from the internet, since I only have one phone line and cannot keep it tied up by remaining constantly online.
If I am required to fill out an online form, I have to go back online. It's not always a big deal to do so, but it is an annoyance, especially when it is for the seller's convenience, not mine.
One more thing- can any seller who uses one of these online systems guarantee that their buyer's personal information will not be sold (either now or in the future)?
I didn't think so.
edited... ubb
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Mar 31, 2001 09:26 PM ]
posted on April 1, 2001 08:05:06 AM
There is NOONE that can Gaurantee your privacy, including eBay. This is taken from TAG notes today:
"ebaY claims to have a higher level of security than PayPal, though in
TAG's opinion, ebaY has violated their privacy agreement with impunity
on several occasions. ebaY also encourages users to
carefully read the user agreements and privacy policies of third
party service providers you provide your ebaY User ID and
password to, in order to use their service. In this TAG concurs,
but TAG has found third party service providers to be as or more
trustworthy than ebaY or those directly associated with ebaY.
ebaY says in their new privacy policy that they do not sell
individual user information but they do share this information
allowing those services to SPAM ebaY users and use the
information for other purposes. In addition ebaY SPAMS users
in their end of auction notices and in other places users cannot" SO...eBay doesn't SELL your information, they GIVE it away.
And so far as the WBN's go, if someone doesnt want to fill out my form, they don't HAVE to. But they need not be rude about it! If they can make their life easier by sending me a form response, why can't a make my life easier by sending a form WBN? To each his own. As long as I get my money in less than a month, which sometimes seems to be asking too much, they can send me their response by camel if they want. JMHO
posted on April 1, 2001 03:57:12 PMThere is NOONE that can Gaurantee your privacy, including eBay.
Ignoring anything that eBay may do regarding sales of buyer/seller information (by not using eBay's website, the whole point of buying through auction is moot), anybody who buys an item from me and pays without using a third party (read: online payment service) can be guaranteed that their personal information will never be sold.
Can sellers who use an online service such as AW or Andale make the same claim?
posted on April 1, 2001 06:09:20 PM
Mrpotatoheadd -- Exactly!
Also if I don't allow my info to be input into a website then I can guarantee that THAT website can't violate my privacy.
I have bid on a few auctions that use Andale or WBN -- but only if I email the seller first and they assure me that the deal can be completed without my info being entered into the website. (Because so many people refuse to bid on those auctions, I've been able to get some pretty good deals that way.
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
posted on April 1, 2001 07:19:57 PM
I have given by name to many a buyer, not by means of a third party form. Only to find I get on a mailing list from them. This is a bulk mailing list that can be hacked, so there goes the privacy. I guess I was taught there are NO guarantees in life, but if you can guarantee security, that is great, I do not think most people can do the same. Not even ebaY.
And I guess since this is the ebaY outlook, I assume that the people posting here are buying OR selling THROUGH ebaY or another auction site that is why I mention ebaYs privacy.
I will have to say I just don't get some of the paranoia about information and security. Everyday in RL we give out our personal info. Writing a check and the store, using our CC's for a purchase, sending a letter through the mail with our return address, entering our social security info on employment apps, on medical records, car loans... There are so many ways other than the Net that anyone can get your personal information, that makes this all MOOT.
[ edited by lorndav on Apr 1, 2001 07:29 PM ]
posted on April 1, 2001 07:34:00 PMI have given by name to many a buyer, not by means of a third party form. Only to find I get on a mailing list from them.
That is every bit as inconsiderate as a seller giving a buyer's information to a website. Ther is no excuse for treating another person in such a fashion.
Understand this- I "get it" that privacy is not an easy thing to hold onto. The whole point here is that each person should have the option of deciding for themselves how much or how little of their own personal information they are willing to allow to be collected online. If I decide to provide my personal information to a website, well... that's my choice. If someone else makes that decision for me, that is an entirely different situation.
I don't know why some people have such a hard time with this concept.
posted on April 1, 2001 09:06:06 PM
Your right it's your choice. Do what is right for you, as will we all should, and we will all live happily ever after...
posted on April 2, 2001 08:04:45 AM
I got more incorrect payments when I used AW's WBN's, so I stopped. I also received 1 complaint from a buyer about having to fill out the form.
If you want to be able to send out notices without having to cut and paste the info from the auction page, there is software that will do the job for you and I use it. I'm not talking about Seller's Assistant either, although that might be a viable option. I've never tried it. The software I use costs a one-time fee. Starting in a couple of weeks, they're also going to do auction launching, supporting eBay and BidVille.
posted on April 2, 2001 08:24:00 AM
This has been an interesting thread with some points of view I hadn't considered. I don't ask my customers to fill out a form, I just send an automated email with all of their info. (different auction manager service, doesn't have a form in it). But it is clear in my ads that I use an auction management service. At least one or two of you think this could be scaring away potential bidders that assume they will be asked to give up their info to a website and/or have a complicated process to go through. Should I go so far as to include something in my TOS that buyers will not have to fill out a form? That seems a little excessive, and I don't want to confuse buyers that don't even know about these forms. I also don't want a cluttered TOS. But then again, don't want to lose potential bidders. I wonder just how many people I'm losing, maybe it's not enough to worry about it? Opinions?
posted on April 2, 2001 08:42:51 AM
I think jujudee brings up an interesting dilemma.
Some sellers might use services like AW or Andale simply for launching auctions, not as an automated checkout or whatever you want to call it.
When AW started charging fees, there was even someone who suggested boycotting any auctions that had the word AuctionWatch in them. Like that would really be fair to sellers who were still using the free image hosting, right? (Guess it's probably not still free anymore, since it's April.)
So for example, how much business might I have lost since AW started charging fees, because I was still using their free image hosting through last week?
Does this mean that sellers who use web-based auction services will be punished by buyers who will make blanket assumptions about what they think they'll have to do to complete a sale? Will sellers who use software-based services like Seller's Assistant escape this bias, or will an assumption be made by some buyers that if there's any kind of a logo at all from a service, it must mean they'll be giving their info. to a third-party?
As more and more sellers start using auction services, we'll see more and more of these concerns.
As I've stated, the company that provides the software I use for PSM is starting to provide auction launching services for eBay and BidVille, presumably on the 16th of this month. I have to assume that their logo will appear on those auctions. I intend to try it out provided they support all the features I need. But in no way do my buyers have to fill out a form or provide their info. to a third party. It's software-based and all emails come directly from my computer, not a web site.
So this could very well become an issue for more and more sellers.
Either we'll have to put something in our TOS as jujudee suggests, or buyers with such biases will just have to realize that the pool of merchandise they have to choose from is going to get smaller and smaller.
posted on April 2, 2001 08:49:55 AM
As a buyer, I know that most sellers use some kind of service -- Auction Watch, etc., for launching their auctions. I would not assume they expect me to go off-line to fill out some form.
However, I do not bid on Andale auctions nor will I ever bid on ANY auction that states they use an automated checkout.
As others here have noted, I will NOT go off-site to give some third party (Andale OR Auction Watch) my personal information. Despite that, I have seen some sellers come here and announce that it doesn't matter whether or not someone chooses to fill out the database form -- they will just do it for me anyway! ONE MORE REASON never to bid on an auction that even hints that they use that kind of service (even when the seller says it is optional), as there is no guarantee they won't circumvent my desire for privacy.
As a seller, I have always done my own templates (I may consider downloading Auction Submit for the purposes of being able to upload more conveniently). Bottom line: I consider my bidders' information to be private and it will only ever appear on MY computer in MY spreadsheet. It will never be housed on a third-party server where there is no guarantee that information won't be distributed at some point down the line.
[edited for clarity]
[ edited by engelskdansk on Apr 2, 2001 08:54 AM ]
posted on April 2, 2001 10:01:34 AM
Question for those of you who avoid automated checkouts:
Does it matter to you who the seller is? For instance, say (as someone speculated in another thread) Walmart comes to eBay. My guess is they're going to want some sort of automated checkout back at walmart.com. Would that bother you?
If yes, I wonder if that could turn out to be a big disadvantage for 'the big buys' out there.
posted on April 2, 2001 10:13:11 AM
Wouldn't matter who was doing the automated checkout.
I would probably avoid dealing with the big vendors anyway ... they tend to have some of the worst terms (the post office auctions come to mind there).
posted on April 2, 2001 12:51:44 PM
I guess the way I look at it, after reading these posts, and after being the in retail/cusomter service industry for 20 years now is; You cannot please everyone! There are so many people using auction sites, and for me even more because I do ship international, that you are always going to have someone who doesn't like what you do. So far I have had over 400 happy cusotmers, all positive feedback. So I figure I must be doing something right. If someone does not want to bid on my item because of the service I use, then they don't have to. I do not like buying groceries at stores that only use plastic bags, so I don't. Everyone has there own issues.
As a buyer, if I want and item, I WANT it! I don't care how I send my information. And I am sure there are alot of others out there just like me. I have not had a complaint about the AW form. Some people don't fill it out and just email me, and that's fine too. Like I said before, everyone is different and you have to do what works for you...
