posted on April 2, 2001 12:57:54 PM new
I sell a lot on eBay, about 150 to 200 weekly items. Mostly cheap stuff ($10-$20) but fragile pieces (ceramics and so).
Insurance is optional, but most of the customers take it. What I do is this: On the EOA, I give customers the $1.10 insurance option. If they pay for it, I pack the items extra secure, and send them vis USPS uninsured. In the case the item get lost or damaged, I refund them the money out of my own pocket (including shipping), or inmediately send them a duplicate item if I have doubles.
That is almost never the case, as 99% of the orders arrive safe and sound, and I pocket an extra $130- $150 weekly.
posted on April 2, 2001 01:05:31 PM new
If I pay for insurance, I don't care what you do with the money as long as I get a refund in the event the item is lost or damaged.
posted on April 2, 2001 01:06:16 PM new
I don't think there's anything wrong with self-insuring your items.
But by quoting an insurance option and using the exact same figure as the actual cost of USPS insurance, you are leading the buyer to believe that the item is officially insured with the USPS when that is obviously not the case here. That is the part I would have trouble with.
posted on April 2, 2001 01:12:54 PM new
I agree with mrpotatohead that as long as I get compensated for damaged/lost merchandise I don't care how it's insured. However, I also agree with BJGrolle that your practice is blatently deceptive. If you are going to insure in this manner, you really should state that it is not USPS insurance, but rather self-insurance. Otherwise you are likely to end up with some very disgruntled customers.
posted on April 2, 2001 01:13:53 PM new
If you don't want to buy USPS insurance----I think you should just charge all your buyers 50 cents extra for self-insurance and pack everybody's package with the same amount of care.
edited for spelling
[ edited by Zazzie on Apr 2, 2001 01:16 PM ]
posted on April 2, 2001 01:21:58 PM new
Well, yes, I pack all items very secure, thus the 99% safety rate (actually just one missing box in the last 6 months)
I use the USPS $1.10 figure, because I don't want the customers to think that their stuff is self isured. I'm very sure there would be a lot of unscrupulous bidders that would give me a hard time demainding a refund when in fact they got the item OK.
posted on April 2, 2001 01:22:34 PM new
Gee, I must remember to send my uninsured packages packed with less-than "extra care". I'll save a bundle on shipping supplies!
posted on April 2, 2001 01:24:33 PM new
Have you had any buyers email and ask why the package isn't marked INSURED? It seems to me that this could lead to a heap o' trouble if you aren't careful.
posted on April 2, 2001 01:28:22 PM newdubyasdaman
A few times, yes. I just tell them that I send from a small branch office, not from the main post office, and that they forgot/ misplaced the insurance stamp.
posted on April 2, 2001 01:36:56 PM new
Here's an easy way to do it without causing any confusion for your buyers.
I charge a flat Priority mail shipping fee for all packages that we send out in the United States. With this $5.00 fee, customers are guaranteed to receive their product exactly as described in our advertisement. If items are lost or damaged in transit, I quickly replace or refund the item myself. There are no forms to fill out, no 4-6 week waiting periods and my customers receive their item or their refund right away. It's all about customer service!
posted on April 2, 2001 01:37:09 PM newminnow: What about the green (or blue) insurance receipt you are "supposed" to get when you insure something?? So you're outright lying to your customers? I think that's totally wrong.
I insure my packages through U-PIC. I tell my customers in my auctions that I insure through U-PIC and not the USPS. My customers have never had a problem with that - and I, too, sell hundreds of items per week.
Customers appreciate (and deserve) honesty. I have no problem with someone self-insuring a package, but to outright lie (and make up stories about the receipt/stamp) is just wrong.
posted on April 2, 2001 01:38:37 PM new
So for $1.10 you are willing to lie to your customers and place blame falsely? Lord knows the USPS makes enough stupid ass mistakes nowadays, but do you really need to contribute to it.
While I am well aware that there is a price for everything, it would take a tad more than $1.10 to compromise my business integrity like that.
posted on April 2, 2001 01:41:33 PM new
I don't have any problem with the self insurance idea. I have a real problem with the deception that is going on. Aside from the price charged being identical to the cost of USPS insurance (which you've said you've done deliberately so they won't know they aren't getting USPS insurance), there is the problem with what appears to be outright lying. If a customer asks why the package isn't marked "insured" lying to them as why it isn't so marked is the least honorable thing I can think of. Why not admit that you self insure in the first place and be done with it? Perhaps to be completely above board, if you are going to charge for self-insurance you should set up a special account to be used against claims, if any. That way you are not just coming up with a way to make extra money at the expense of your customers.
I know , and I feel bad about it, but what would prevent those bidders from demanding their insurance money back, after the risk was taken?
They wouldn't beleve that the item was self insured and that i would've assumed all responsibility if the package was damaged/lost.
posted on April 2, 2001 01:43:27 PM new
So you lie to your customers about why there is no INSURED stamp on their packages and you're worried about a lot of unscrupulous bidders? Is this the I'll get them before they get me attitude?
Treat people the way you would want to be treated and you'll have a lot less worry.
posted on April 2, 2001 01:48:31 PM new
What's the problem??
The item is really insured, and in case it gets lost/ damaged, they will have their refund (bid price+shipping) in their mailbox in 3 days!
What insurance company does that??
Bidders should be thankful for not having to deal with the USPS for $15.00.
And the people that actually email me about the Insured seal in absolutely minimal.
posted on April 2, 2001 02:00:02 PM new
Hmm, this is an idea I had not thought about at all, but I think it is brilliant. I personally would rather replace the items I send (when I have multiples), should there be a problem, for the change.
However, I think the real problem would be IF the buyers were aware they were not dealing with federal/whatever regulations, they would tend to try to take advantage of the situation and claim they had not received it, broken, whatever...when in fact, it was good.
As long as the end result is the same, I don't understand why there should be a problem. Nobody ever said life was fair, as evidenced by wages paid for same job, discounts for quanity, favors by knowing an owner/boss/employee, etc. etc. Why pay more, when the customer can be given the same end result?
posted on April 2, 2001 02:03:20 PM new
Some months ago (too many for me to recall but maybe someone can go right to it), there was a thread on this vary subject & it also involved u-pic.
I believe the u-pic rep pointed out some problems w/using "insured" in your TOS then self-insuring.
If anyone can find this past thread, it was very enlightening.
posted on April 2, 2001 02:05:34 PM newminnow: If you felt THAT bad about it, I think you wouldn't continue to do it.
You say you are only protecting yourself, and what's to stop the customer from saying they didn't receive the item? Well what's to stop them from saying that when they REALLY purchase insurance through the USPS? Anyone who purchases USPS insurance can easily say they never recieved the item - just as easy for them to tell YOU that.
If you want to "protect" yourself, charge $1.00 for insurance, and pay 40¢ out of that for delivery confirmation on every "insured" package. That way you will KNOW if the customer received their package and you won't have to worry about them just trying to get claim money from you.
posted on April 2, 2001 02:08:23 PM new
I do not believe you feel bad. In your original post you're bragging about how you pocket an extra $130- $150 weekly. And since you don't appear to have to give refunds that often, there is no reason to charge so much extra on a weak pretense.
I have this in my auctions:
SATISFACTION GUARANTEE
You will receive your merchandise as advertised or your money back.
That means:
1. If I make a mistake in my description
2. If the item arrives damaged
3. If the item never arrives
4. Anything else I haven't thought of that might apply
The customer gets a full refund, including shipping.
And, whether you believe it or not, that doesn't open the door for hoardes of dishonest people to bid on my auctions and then demand refunds.
posted on April 2, 2001 02:12:35 PM new
Over two years ago, I had an insured item never get delivered. The PO jerked me around for months and then (for an extra $6.60 charge) sent me a very bad photocopy of a delivery receipt with an "X" for the signature as "proof" that it was delivered. So I was out the item, the insurance and 6.60, not to mention months of time.
I send all my items priority with confirmation unless the customer insists otherwise and takes the risk. Insurance is optional, again customer takes the risk. If insurance is paid, I self-insure. If it was to get lost or damaged (which hasn't happened yet in hundreds sent) and there is no tracking information, I will replace it myself. This is far simpler for me and my customer.
In October I shipped a digital camera to an APO address. I insured it because DC was not available. It disappeared and I just received the reply from the Post Office last week, 5 months later, that it was lost. I have already replaced it for my customer. I actually had to send him a better model since the one he bought has been discontinued.
I see nothing wrong in self-insuring as long as you do provide the refund or replacement. A few customers have asked me about the missing insurance and I explained to them how it worked and why I chose to do it this way. None have complained.
I do have a problem with lying to customers. Not only is it wrong, but one day a customer will insist on knowing the number on the slip and when you can't provide it, you might find yourself on the end of a fraud complaint. I'm no lawyer but it seems to me that charging for insurance and providing it yourself is legal. Lying and saying you bought postal insurance when you didn't is not.
EG
<<< Anyone who purchases USPS insurance can easily say they never recieved the item - just as easy for them to tell YOU that >>>
I beg to differ. It's not the same for a customer to tell me that he/she did not received the item, and that he/she wants to file a claim with the USPS, knowing what it leads to, that to file a claim with me and get their money in 3 days. It's quite more tempting this way to try and screw me up.
posted on April 2, 2001 02:14:54 PM new
Minnow, if you really want to self-insure, here is a way that may satisfy both you and your bidders, and will not appear to be highly deceptive (which I think your current policy is):
Specify in your TOS that the charge is $4.95 (or whatever) for shipping and insurance (PLEASE do not quote a figure that looks like Priority mail + $1.10--that would be extremely deceptive as well). Buy a rubber stamp with red ink at the office supply store that says "Insured" and stamp it on each package. That probably will satisfy most bidders. (I once paid an extra $1.10 & the package came self-insured--I was REALLY irritated at the "deception," even though I know the result would have been the same had the package been lost.)
If the buyer complains that they didn't get "official" PO insurance, graciously explain to them that you had a very hassling and drawn-out experience with PO insurance once, and you just wanted to make sure that the buyer could have an immediate, no-hassle refund without taking the time to go to the PO and filling out forms, etc. If you are smart, you'll put your insurance fee at around 75 cents, so you can also point out that you actually charged them less than the PO would have. Remember that in ANY confrontational situation, it's best to turn a negative into a positive (you're not only saving them money, you're trying to spare the poor buyer the time and effort it would take to do an official PO claim).
I have seen some TOS where the seller has stated that he reserves the right to self insure, but that could lead to fraud (i.e. if they complain about the non-P.O. insurance stamp, you KNOW they got the package; if you state that you self insure, all they have to do is complain that they never got it and you're out the money).
I hope you will revise your policy and cease charging the PO insurance rate--you'll still make almost as much money, and (IMO) it's a more ethical way of treating your bidders. I don't think anyone (buyers or sellers) has a problem with the concept of self insurance, it's the "deception" you're practicing that seems to be the "shady" part.
posted on April 2, 2001 02:16:08 PM new
It is too easy for people to say they never received an item, if they know the seller is insuring it.
I ,for one, would not have the nerve to call the lady who delivers my mail a liar, if she did/possibly could in fact remember delivering a package... as, maybe it was huge, or I rarely receive packages.
This is the difference. People think nothing of robbing the common fellow. When was the last time you heard the post office got robbed? It isn't a lack of money on the site, every time I go they are processing hundreds of dollars of money orders. It is the fear of serious jail time.
