posted on April 5, 2001 01:25:52 PM
A potential customer contacted me today and the email reads as follows...
"I like your widgets that you have for auction, but need them made to my specifications and in a different quantity than is shown on your auction, can you help me?"
My dilemma is that I can certainly customize her widgets, and get her the number she needs, but is this fee avoidance if I sell to her directly at this point? Should I put her widgets up on an auction for her once I make them? This is a grey area that I don't understand too well.
Any help on the matter would be appreciated. I don't want to get in trouble with the Ebay gods!
posted on April 5, 2001 01:35:07 PM
In my opinion, if you are selling something other than what you have listed on eBay, they have no right to claim a fee. Whether or not they (the eBay gods) try to do so is another matter.
posted on April 5, 2001 01:35:18 PM
Christine, I think if the person contacts you because of an eBay listing, anything done on the side like that would be considered fee avoidance. You would have to make the items and then list them so the person could bid on them. I'm not 100% sure though, but that was my understanding on eBay's rules.
Sometimes people email me for custom items, and I wonder if they are 'eBay police' trying to entrap me!
I will be interested to see if anyone knows for sure.
posted on April 5, 2001 01:43:25 PMI think if the person contacts you because of an eBay listing, anything done on the side like that would be considered fee avoidance.
How can it be fee avoidance if the item in question has never been listed for sale on eBay? Are you suggesting that once you list anything for sale through eBay, they are entitled to a percentage of everything you sell, even if the sale is not through their site?
Note that this is not the same situation as when a buyer emails a seller about a listed item, and the seller ends the current auction to sell that particular item off eBay.
posted on April 5, 2001 02:13:00 PM
IMO if eBay allows bidders to get to a seller's website (through the double-click rule, of course!) where they can see items that are NOT on eBay, I figure it's legal to sell "off eBay" as long as you're not closing a currently listed item to do so (or if you sell at a higher price than the auction if you have numerous identidal widgets). Simply because the bidder originally found out about you through eBay does NOT obligate you to compensate eBay every time you sell something!!
It probably would not be correct to offer more stuff to the bidder in your EOA, but if the bidder makes the first inquiry, that's as good as a "double-click" to me!!
posted on April 5, 2001 02:23:29 PM
I don't see why you couldn't offer more items in your EOA once the auction has ended. Some sellers have links which take the buyer to a shopping cart and can "browse" for other items if they want.
This still falls within the double-click rule as the buyer has to click "continue shopping" to see other items.
posted on April 5, 2001 03:15:41 PMI think if the person contacts you because of an eBay listing, anything done on the side like that would be considered fee avoidance.
Not until and unless eBay starts paying me a six-figure salary with hefty benefits and hands me additional checks to purchase my merchandise.
We're not eBay's employees.
eBay has every right to expect us to live up to the listing agreement for the items we put up for sale on eBay. I fully honor that agreement with each and every listing. It's what's fair and right.
If someone contacts me through eBay's e-mail system and asks about an item that I sell on eBay, I point give 'em the url for the listing.
But eBay does not own my business. If someone contacts me asking for merchandise I do not list and sell on eBay, that sale is mine.
posted on April 5, 2001 09:23:23 PM
Your arguement could be the extensive ebay downtimes and timeliness of delivery to the customer, hence the additional sale went outside of ebay and was non ebay related despite the listing. Tough break for ebay. Tell them to relieve you of your listing fees that hindered your sales for the last 20 days!
posted on April 6, 2001 02:06:32 AM
mzalez says: Sometimes people email me for custom items, and I wonder if they are 'eBay police' trying to entrap me!
**************
Are there really 'eBay police' that try entrapment?????!
posted on April 6, 2001 04:43:47 AM
I don't recall ever giving eBay exclusive agency to all my business. They would LIKE to have it at no cost and no liability but when it gets to a court they are going to find that the law is rather mature in these matters and not at all what they would like.
I suspect they are ignoring the advice of their own legal help unless they are demanding to hear what they want.
posted on April 6, 2001 04:46:07 AM
ChristineInCalifornia
We recently asked a similar question to Ebay. I can fwd the email to you if you want. Just send me an email to [email protected].
posted on April 6, 2001 04:48:23 AM
It is not fee avoidance.
eBay has certain rights to fees on listed items, they have no rights in your business outside of eBay REGARDLESS of how the potential buyer made his/her contact with you, except in cases where the contact is an attempt to directly circumvents fees for a listed item.
All of my EOA's contain offers for direct sales of items I have listed at various auctions- and I have a 40% success rate for these direct sales.
I also buy my shipping supplies directly from a vendor I first transacted with through eBay. WE NO LONGER TRANSACT THROUGH EBAY, WE TRANSACT DIRECT- EBAY'S WORSE NIGHTMARE !!
eBay has many brainwashed into thinking the eBay "venue" has some authority outside of the transactions on eBay, which is woefully untrue.
The model some of you seem to think is the case is the equivilent of running an auction on eBay, and once that auction runs, eBay gets a fee for all items sold from hence forth - not true. eBay has a right to fees from items listed on eBay, and nothing else, reagrdless of how the buyer was introduced to the seller.
eBay has a stake in what is listed, that which is not listed and sold direct is none of eBay's affair, regardless of the manner the buyer found out about your product - as long as it is not a direct attempt to circumvent fees for items that are LISTED.
The sooner sellers realize this, the sooner eBay will realize that they can be by-passed and replaced, and must become more responsive to sellers.
I've mentioned this before- all sellers should use the power of their PC's to database all information about their buyers. In the near future, you'll be glad you did.
posted on April 6, 2001 07:08:39 AMIt probably would not be correct to offer more stuff to the bidder in your EOA, but if the bidder makes the first inquiry, that's as good as a "double-click" to me!!
What? I've been doing this for over a year with no problems (or complaints) at all. My EOA's are 3 pages long, 2 1/2 of which are ads for upgrades and other unrelated items. I routinely send EOA's for a $15 auction and end up getting $60 or more (sometimes MUCH more) from the customer before the transaction is closed.
I do it in a way that doesn't seem to p. the customers off. The first 1/2 page of the EOA is the standard EOA info. The last line says "Thanks again for your business. We appreciate it very much! Listed below you will find information about some of our other products and upgrades if you're interested."
This way the buyers don't have to wade through a sales pitch in order to get the payment instructions. If they're not interested in buying anything else from me, they can just stop reading. But most read on and order directly from the EOA or my website. I LOVE ecommerce!
posted on April 6, 2001 07:36:49 AM
According to eBay, since you are a member of eBay and have an eBay ID, you are absolutely forbidden from selling your merchandise by any other method, PERIOD!! You must remeber that eBay is only a venue, and to them, that is the definition of "venue"
Go ahead, sell them. If eBay complains, sue them for restraint of trade......
posted on April 6, 2001 08:21:08 AM
If you read eBay's TOS carefully, you will see that eBay's only claim is for direct fee avoidance for items listed.
Initiating contacts for the sale of items between buyer and seller who came to be aware of each other through eBay is not fee avoidance.
I have eBay auction winners contact me months later inquiring about items to buy direct and I sell them the items direct even though those same items are for sale on eBay. It is not fee avoidance, it is free trade.
eBay is well aware of the smarter merchants using their eBay contacts to develop their business independantly of eBay.
All this propaganda from eBay about why they have hidden email addresses and supression of links to seller sites is to protect revenue and has nothing to do with spam or buyers being cheated in outside eBay transactions.
Wise up folks, smart sellers are developing direct internet sales strategies outside of eBay, this protects them from fee increases, and will greatly aid sellers develop a direct sales business independant of eBay.
All sellers should have direct sales information and/or direct sales site links on their EOA.
Start databasing your customer contact information.
posted on April 6, 2001 11:30:19 AM
What if you ask that bidder if you can add him/her to your mailing list and you offer the customized widget on that list....
I knew there was SOMETHING that we could agree on! You're right of course. Any ebaY seller who doesn't use the EOA as a selling tool is missing a golden opportunity IMO.
posted on April 6, 2001 01:36:11 PMWhat if you make the custom widgets and list them, then never hear from the "buyer" again?
Well, in that case, since you were doing your best to keep from avoiding eBay's fees, I'm sure they'd be happy to refund all your fees for those auctions.
posted on April 6, 2001 03:17:24 PM
Offering a mailing list on your EOA is perfectly OK.
However, there is a perception problem if you do a mailing list without an opt-in choice. Much debate about this.
In any event- directly sell the items to the inquiring buyer- it is not fee avoidance.
And to reiterate- always offer a direct sales method and advertise your other items for direct sales in your EOA.
It also helps to offer a credit card payment method to direct sales buyers, this protects them from fraud.
If you're smart, two years from now you'll only be listing on eBay to gather new customers. You'd be surprised how many power sellers have a direct sales site and an active "newsletter" directing buyers to that site. If I'm doing 40% direct sales, I'll bet the power sellers are doing at least that much. I've also cut my monthly listing and FV fees in half, as well as increased my net profit while discounting prices for direct sales.
The Internet made eBay, but it is also eBay's Achilles heal as buyers and sellers wise up.
