posted on April 14, 2001 05:25:01 AM
Here's the story:
On 9/16/00, I sold a lot of old G.I. Joe action figures and vehicles to an eBay buyer for $102.50. With shipping, the total price was $145.95. I received a personal check signed by him from a store he worked at and deposited the check into my checking account on 10/6/00. On 10/13/00, I sent the lot of toys to him, insured and with delivery confirmation through the U.S. Postal Service. On 10/19/00, I found out there were insufficient funds from the account and the check bounced. I was out the $145.95 plus a $5 service charge from my bank. That same day I both e-mailed the guy and called him at his place of business. I requested that he send me a money order to make up for the funds, since I would not accept another check, and he seemed to comply. On 10/28/00, he asked me to send the check back to him as a precaution, because of another incident he claimed happened to him, which I did within the next few days. He said he would send me a money order after he received the check. I sent the check back to him and e-mail him on 11/5/00 and 11/7/00 asking if the check arrived and received no response. On 11/11/00, I e-mailed him again and the e-mail message was returned to me with the subject "user unknown". I tried calling him at the store where he worked and the phone number was disconnected. On 11/25/00, I mailed a certified letter to the store address (since the only other address I had for him was a P.O. Box) asking him to pay me back or I would contact the authorities. The letter was returned to me as undeliverable. At the time, I contacted Virginia Court Services, which specializes in bad checks, to try and find this person and get my money back for me, and I recently filed a complaint at www.fbi.gov.
Recently, I did some investigating on eBay based on a suspicion that the guy was doing illegal shill bidding. It's a long, complicated story, but I found a dealer that I believed was him. I set up a second eBay account (so he couldn't figure out it was me), won an auction he had running, and just got an e-mail with guess who's name as the person to send payment to. And now I have an address for him. The problem is I'm afraid to confront him for fear he'll lead me on again or deny everything or, a slim possibility, might just split. So how should I handle this? Should I press charges (I guess I have to press charges with local police) and give them the new address, or should I just report his new address to the people I've already reported him to?
posted on April 14, 2001 06:47:59 AM
A littl elate know, but I hope you made a copy of the NSF Check. I have had people request that but you must tell them you will gladly return the check after payment is taking care of. If you don't there goes main piece of leverage. You would need to call the local police ad it could take quite some time. I might take a chance and give him a call. good luck to you however you decide to handle it !
posted on April 14, 2001 08:31:08 AM
Most areas now have a bad check program that helps merchants collect plus gives them up to triple damages. I'd call the local police and ask them if they have such a program. In CA, the county district attorney is the one to call, but the police will refer you to the right authority. I can get three times the face amount of the check or $1500, whichever is higher.
It's also mail fraud, but I suspect local authorities will act faster than the FBI or whichever federal office should handle these things.
posted on April 14, 2001 08:59:47 AM
Thanks, sonsie. I've also heard I should send a certified letter to him requesting the money. This way I have a receipt that he was contacted by me to pay up, and if he still doesn't pay, then I can contact local authorities.
posted on April 14, 2001 09:00:31 AM
I am really impressed with your patience and the ability to find this person on your own. Yes I would pursue it, $145.00 is nothing to sneeze at Had you filed anything with ebay? If you did how did ebay allow this person back in. I think their rules are very easily broken. Maybe there isn't enough investigation on ebays part when they let someone back in after they have done some serious damage. They need a system where when a name is entered into their database and they have naru the name should be flashing red. Enough, You did some very serious searching and you should be commended for that. Good Work!
posted on April 14, 2001 09:16:40 AM
go to http://www.madagency.com/
It is a collection agency based in New Hampshire. I had one check that bounced, and the buyer kept assuring me that she was getting a money order -- which never appeared. I gave her a deadline, and the m.o. still never appeared.
So I filled out the online form on the M.A.D. Agency site, and sent copies of the documentation the next day via USPS, and within a month I had my money, plus fees.
I recommended them highly. M.A.D. agency is great to work with too!
El
"The customer may not always be right, but she is always the customer."
posted on April 14, 2001 09:18:49 AM
Libra, I reported the situation to eBay originally. They tried to contact the guy and since his e-mail address was invalid, they suspended the ID. This guy's using a different e-mail address now, and he registered that one before I reported the situation to eBay (11/29/00, to be exact; I reported him in early December), so maybe that's why it's still being allowed. I don't want to report him to eBay just yet, because it might tip him off. I've heard I should sent a certified letter requesting payment, but I'd rather not tip him off and give him time to run (if that's how he operates, but he still lives in the same state, possibly the same city, where he ripped me off from so I don't think he'd go too far). I'm hoping just to contact the police, press charges, and hope they get the guy.
I also agree that there should be better verification on eBay's part.
posted on April 14, 2001 09:41:37 AM
You won't likely get any satisfaction through the criminal prosecution process. The amount is too small- most police agencies and DA's offices have minimums below which they don't pursue NSF matters- and yours is likely WAY below the minimum. The agency I used to work for had a minumum in the thousands of dollars. There are also problems in proving a crime in an NSF case- the investigator has to look at the balance day by day to determine whether there was an intent to defraud at the time the check was written. If the balance was fluctuating at that time, it makes the defense very easy, and filing is unlikely. The miscreant's refusal to make the check good after the fact will likely be considered a civil, not criminal, matter. Hardly seems fair, does it?
That said, the previous poster is right about state laws that allow you to pursue the matter civilly for several times the amount on the check. CA is 3X, I think. That makes your $150 loss a potential $450 win- something probably worth pursuing.
The civil case will be much more straightforward- Small Claims is easy-- the problems are determining jurisdiction (probably your county, which is good), and service. You need to get the miscreant served- something tnat can be problematic for an out of state deadbeat. Finally, even after judgement, extracting payment can be difficult to impossible with deadbeats. I've had some luck with small claims court, but it's still some work to collect.
All things considered, the collection agency might have better luck coercing the miscreant into paying.
posted on April 14, 2001 09:50:30 AM
I give you credit for resorting to the tricks that you did to catch this SOB.
Although I haven't had something go undelivered like this, I have had a couple of deadbeats. Oh the wrath that they incurred by me---and unbeknownst to them! God bless multiple ID's and exacting revenge on scumbags!
BEWARE of the goody-2-shoes on these boards who may start preaching to you about rules, rules, rules.
Many rules only serve to keep the honest people down.
posted on April 14, 2001 11:22:54 AM
I had a similar problem once and found out after calling the police in the buyers area... That the process is for internet problems like this is you need to contact your police department first then they contact the police where the buyer is located. Your police department will come to your house and you fill out a report with them and they take it from there. Hope this helps. J
posted on April 14, 2001 11:48:48 AM
A bounced check in VA can land someone in jail for a few months. I used to live there and my dad merely accidentally wrote some bad checks and had to serve jail time for an accident and still pay for the checks, fees, etc. Since your buyer was not willing to pay, that will hurt him in the court system in VA because it will hurt his credibility. Go get him. If he gets a record then it'll make it harder for him to do it to someone else.
Your comment "BEWARE of the goody-2-shoes on these boards who may start preaching to you about rules, rules, rules."
is insulting to the AuctionWatch.com Membership.
Please remember thay you are just one post away from a suspension of your posting privileges and we ask that you post with common courtesy and basic etiquette.
posted on April 14, 2001 12:11:38 PM
The response from Wilbur is different than the one that is here now. Please when you post why not read the whole thread before you post. Many sellers are not as fortunate as snapman and also not as patient. This is a very informational post and I for one enjoy reading it until I received the original post from you then I was upset again as I was in the thread last night. Good luck to Snapman and I hope he gets his money back plus all the pain and suffering. When you come to a conclusion Snapman please come back and tell us.
posted on April 14, 2001 02:25:37 PM
Sounds like the ultimate scam to me. Asking for the check back should have been a major red flag. You mailed him back the evidence.
Anything can be doctored with a copy machine and computer. I hope you made copies of the check front and back after it bounced.
I hope you get your money. The MAD Agency sounds like a good route to try.
posted on April 14, 2001 02:34:18 PM
Kerryann, yes, I goofed by sending it back. Based on my conversation with the guy on the phone and his e-mails, though, everything seemed to be a misunderstanding. I didn't feel he was scamming me. And yes, I did scan both front and back.
posted on April 14, 2001 09:04:50 PMSnapMan Good job in "sniffing" him out, guy! "You ain't nothing but a hound dog...."
On the check thing, a friend of mine, (not an auction user) used Virginia Court Services for his business. He said he was very pleased with their service. I only know this because I also live in Virginia, and had asked for his advice.
Good luck to ya! Deadbeats like that just kill me! I hope his dog gets diahrea in his bed!
posted on April 14, 2001 09:16:59 PM
Thanks, Honaker5. I think you gave me the advice to use Virginia Court Services. I'm going to talk to M.A.D. Agency and see if they can investigate him as well, but I would rather press charges since that would screw him over more. I'll keep on seeking advice.
posted on April 14, 2001 11:46:34 PM
California you do send them to the DA's office you WILL NOT collect 3x the amount of the check. You will get back the bank fees and the certified mail fees though. there is no minimum and they will not do anything over 2500.00 as it is a civil matter and you have to proceed it through court yourself.
also the person that bounced the check will have to enroll(fees) in a class on how to manage their money, and they have to pay bail(fine) to the DA's office. the old forms I believe said the bail was 110.00 dollars, the new forms don't say.
Now with all that said here is the kicker for all of us selling blind on the net. you have to have recorded at the time the check was passed from a photo ID their drivers license number or California ID number, Otherwise the person who accepted the check must be able to identify the check writer.
So I contacted Virginia Court Services (who I originally reported the incident to back in December). I gave the guy who works there the new address I had for the thief and the e-mail address I tracked him down to. He told me the guy did contact them and said his lawyer advised him not to pay (or some bull like that) and I think the guy at VCS said he sent them pennies or something. The guy at VCS also found out about his girlfriend's Paypal account he was using (I also received a Paypal notification in her name when the auction ended). The guy at VCS still said not to contact police because they wouldn't do anything.
I then contacted the M.A.D. Agency and told them the story. They couldn't take the case because Virginia Court Services was currently involved (I think there can't be more than one creditor allowed to go after the guy), and they also said that if the guy from VCS advised me not to contact police then I should do what they say.
And I just checked the thief's account and he's been NARU'ed. I'm guessing he either canceled it because he's been discovered, or eBay canceled it because he had a couple of negatives for being a deadbeat. It's a shame I didn't get a chance to leave him a negative before it happened (I was going to put up a page detailing what I wrote here and put the link in the feedback - I can't detail the whole story in under 100 characters).
I do have another id I tracked him down to, so I'll see if that brings up any activity. Otherwise, I'm going to put this aside again and let Virginia Court Services handle it.
posted on April 23, 2001 07:44:34 PM
In some states three NSF = felony. You wouldn't believe the books that grocery stores keep listing name, address, driver's license, and phone number for anybody that bounced a check in the last decade. It is about 700 pages and that is just for one metro area. I might suggest that look into some of the products from Telecheck
http://www.telecheck.com/home/home.html
We installed their products at a grocery chain of 100 stores a year ago and check losses dropped dramatically, and all it does is compare the MICR (the numbers on the bottom) with a national database of bad check writers.
I am in no way associated nor paid by them, and don't care if you do business with them or similar companies.
I just know that we took millions of dollars in bad checks and reduced it to less than one million dollars, and are working to try to have less than one hundred thousand dollars of losses per year. It is because they Guarantee that the check will be good. Our only losses are now related to conterfeit and post dated checks.
I've been using Ebay since 1998!
posted on April 24, 2001 04:39:31 AM
I just reread all this. You SENT him the bad check back with out collecting on it? Around here, that is all the proof he would need that he had paid you for the bad check.
posted on April 24, 2001 02:35:43 PM
Mikeselis, unfortunately, I'm not a business. I just sell stuff on eBay in my spare time, and I haven't sold anything on eBay since last year.
Microbes, yes, I sent him the bad check back, but I was naive in thinking he would repay me. Our correspondence did not seem out of the ordinary, so my belief was that he was honest. But I disagree with your belief that sending the bad check back to him is proof that he paid me back. If that were the case, he wouldn't have been ignoring my e-mail messages asking if the check arrived (which I saved on my computer). When I got Virginia Court Services after him, he should have provided them proof that he paid me back (a money order receipt, cancelled check, etc.). Instead, he's dicking them around as well. Those things would look very bad against him in a court of law.
posted on April 24, 2001 03:32:12 PM
You might consider only selling to people in the same state as you. That way you are both under the same state laws. Because I don't know much about your community you might also consider selling all items at flea markets or county fairs on the weekends. I was in one in Canton, OH area about two years ago and I felt like all of Ebay had been delivered to that one fairground. Then you can get just currency and not have to worry about this problem.
I agree that I may be a little sarcastic, but if you are having problems with payment by any type, you should just stop taking it. Take a look at your local drug store, they probably don't take checks anymore, but I bet they take credit cards. It is because once they get an authorization number they are 99.998% likely to get paid, as chargebacks are harder if you have a physical impression of the card. That is why paypal, billpoint, etc. has all of the problems is because they don't have a physical impression.
I understand that the $150 you lost is annoying but you might not get anything back once the collection agency takes their cut.
"We're flooding people with
information. We need to feed it
through a processor. A human must turn information into
intelligence or knowledge. We've tended
to forget that no computer will ever ask a new question." - Grace Hopper
