posted on April 24, 2001 08:31:53 AM
Good morning everyone!
I know this question has been posed before, but the esnipe fees thread led me to thinking about auto extensions again.
As a seller, I'd like to see eBay implement auto-extension times when bids are placed within 4 min of the end time of an auction. I really believe we'd get higher prices for our items, if for no other reason than that newbies are not good snipers, but do have deep pockets!
I don't think there'd be a problem with auctions going on forever - b&m auctions have a going going gone feature, and they end eventually.
As a buyer, though I'm ok at sniping, I don't really like it much.
I'd love to hear others' opinions on this. Sellers - would auto-extensions help our sales? Buyers - do you like sniping?
posted on April 24, 2001 08:43:21 AMSellers - would auto-extensions help our sales?
Some think so, but I doubt that it would make much of a difference to most sellers. I'd be willing to bet the percentage of auctions that close with two or more bidders present and bidding in the last 4 minutes is very low. If you have lots of auctions like that, well... maybe it would help you out.
posted on April 24, 2001 08:59:00 AM
Basically what it all boils down to is whenever a bidder places their bid they need to put in their maximum amount rather than thinking of this as a live auction where you can counter-bid if suddenly you change your mind.
As a seller I enjoy someone sniping my auctions--I'm just happy to get the bid, whether early or late. I've had prices go up almost 1000% during the last minute of the auction. One of those was a book that had set at $3.00 with one bid almost the whole run of the auction. At the last minute the price went up to over $26. The person who placed the first bid was willing to pay a nice price. Luckily, the person placing the second bid was willing to pay even more. I seriously doubt the first bidder would've come back during the last four minutes to counter the new high bidder. Many people who place an early proxy bid aren't the type of people who watch the end of the auction. They bid and move on.
As a buyer, yes, sometimes I do place last-minute bids. Sometimes it's by plan and other times because I just then found the auction, barely had time to look at feedback and place a bid. Even with last-minute bidding I figure out what really is the maximum price I'm willing to pay and bid accordingly. Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose but if the time was extended I wouldn't be counter-bidding because I already put in my max.
posted on April 24, 2001 09:42:18 AM
In my opinion most bidders would not like auto-extension auctions because the only logical result of them would be higher bidding. Sellers may like that but bidders would hate it.
Personally as a seller, I want to see a balance of happy buyers/good profits. Auto extensions in my opinion would give the seller too much of an edge and result in disgruntled bidders and therefore fewer sales as bidders hit the back button.
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I really like snipes and snipers. The miniscule number of times I've been burned by outages on Ebay interfering with last minute bids has been offset many times over by the profit I have made on last minute high snipes.
posted on April 24, 2001 12:01:26 PM
As an option of the seller I have always supported this format.
If the seller thinks they have an item that is going to attract more than one or two bidders and wants to maximize the "true" auction process where bidders can make counter bids then why not?
Why should eBay restrict the choices that sellers have for how they choose to market their items?
The answer has nothing to do with the potential lack of success that this format has in other venues. Until a competing venue has the depth of sellers, bidders and items that eBay has it is dangerous to draw conclusions about why something does or doesn't work elsewhere.
An extended auction format is potentially a benefit to bidders as well as sellers. Imagine you are a collector and you spot that hard to find item that would help to complete your collection. Wouldn't you as a bidder prefer that you be able to re-bid if someone tops an earlier offer you made?
I think, in the end analysis, the extended auction format is just another potential tool that online auction goers might find useful in certain conditions. It can be abused or improperly used just like any other feature (reserves, BIN, auction duration, Gallery, featuring).
posted on April 24, 2001 12:20:47 PMWhy should eBay restrict the choices that sellers have for how they choose to market their items?
For any of a wide variety of reasons, including that they don't feel their infrastructure would support the option or that introduction of the option would drive prices down and buyers away.
Wouldn't you as a bidder prefer that you be able to re-bid if someone tops an earlier offer you made?
No. I as a bidder bid what I am willing to pay for an item. If someone tops me, whether in the first ten seconds or the last, they can have it.
posted on April 24, 2001 12:30:29 PM
Think about it. Just imagine the many and varied ways eBay could screw up auto extensions... The disastrous, without any possibility of redemption or hope ways... Calamitous to the finances ways... I see no end to eBays innovations in this regard.
posted on April 24, 2001 12:40:34 PMWouldn't you as a bidder prefer that you be able to re-bid if someone tops an earlier offer you made?
Personally, no- I make my bid based on what I figure my max to be, and this figure does not depend on what somebody else is willing to bid.
Bidders who are not sure what their max is would probably like this, however, and I don't see where offering it as an option would cause any harm. Sellers who wanted to use it would, the rest wouldn't.
What I think would be interesting is to offer auto-extension, with an additional fee to the seller, if the item does not receive multiple last minute bids. Presumably, the fee would be justified by the cost to implement the feature- additional system resources and software modifications required over and above what is needed to run fixed length auctions, etc. You weren't expecting that sellers who choose not to use AE should have to bear that expense, were you?
That way, we could see how many of the sellers who assert that they'd be getting higher bids with AE would be willing to back it up their with their wallets.
edited to add...
I don't see where offering it as an option would cause any harm aside from the obvious increased potential for screw-ups from fooling with a system that barely seems to work at times.
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Apr 24, 2001 12:44 PM ]
posted on April 24, 2001 01:38:36 PMWhat I think would be interesting is to offer auto-extension, with an additional fee to the seller, if the item does not receive multiple last minute bids. Presumably, the fee would be justified by the cost to implement the feature- additional system resources and software modifications required over and above what is needed to run fixed length auctions, etc. You weren't expecting that sellers who choose not to use AE should have to bear that expense, were you?
Why should there be a fee for sellers that choose the auto-extend option? If there are bidders at the end causing the auction to be extended then Ebay gets more in FVFs. If there are no bidders to extend the auction, then it doesn't use any more resources than a fixed-end auction.
Modifying the software would be relatively simple.
I don't think such a fee would ever be implemented. The point is that some sellers have posted that they think they will get higher prices with AE, and all I'm saying with my suggestion (an added fee if there were not multiple last minute bids) is that this would show whether or not sellers really believe that.
posted on April 24, 2001 05:30:11 PM
"I'd like to see eBay implement auto-extension times when bids are placed within 4 min of the end time of an auction."
As a programmer, I shudder at the thought of adding yet another feature to the overloaded and unstable pile of code that is eBay.
Dynamic recalculation of ending time based on the arrival of bids would add a lot of overhead at a critical time. Instead of a simple compare operation (if bid time earlier than end time, accept bid and go to check amount) the computer would have to check bid time, accept/reject bid, decide whether to extend be calculating if the bid arrived less than X minutes before end time, calculate new end time, and store new end time.
"I don't think there'd be a problem with auctions going on forever."
the problem would be with keeping the servers from crashing.
posted on April 25, 2001 09:34:09 AM
As an experienced systems programmer and software developer since the late 1970s I would not argue that any additons or changes to eBay's software would complicate its operation.
However, updating the ending time of an auction is no different nor more complicated than updating the current bid or the number of bids received (both of which are done dynamically at a critical time).
The added "overhead" in the processing of extended auctions in the event there are last minute bids would have a virtually insignificant impact on eBay's software infrastructure.
Especially if eBay offered extended auction format for a fee in order to discourage its indiscriminate use or abuse.
Extended auction format makes no sense for ubiquitous items since few folks would take advantage of the extension to re-bid if they had been outbid. They probably have a reasonably well defined maximum bid and wif it is topped by someone else they will simply bid on the next auction for that commonplace item.
That being the case, why not offer the option at a fee to sellers who believe they have an item that might benefit from a true auction format where the auction doesn't end until only one bidder remains "standing".
I believe there is a place for extended auction in eBay. And that place is for objects that, for lack of a better phrase, I will simply call rare, vintage or true collectibles.
posted on April 25, 2001 11:29:58 AM
Interestingly, the first (I think) "real" online auction is here - www.micro-auction.com. You can bid via a standard proxy bid, or you can attend "live" and bid real time. It was, of course, only a matter of time before this kind of auction appeared, as the proliferation and technology of the net improves at a fearsome pace.
If this format proves popular (which is likely, given how popular auctions are in general), ebay will be faced with a dilemma - stick to their "old fashioned" auction technology, or migrate to this methodology. Perhaps, as codaraurus suggests above, they will implement this approach (which probably costs a bit more to do) for the more costly items that can afford to do this (and can take advantage of multiple, real-life bidders), while sticking to the more mundane method for the bulk of low-cost, everyday items (no need for real-time bidding on gothic romance novels, etc).
As long as people find the "thrill" of real-time bidding to be greater than the "thrill" of sniping (which I think they will, given a decent implementation of the auction format), then the battle is already over, at least for "rare" items - autoextension, aka "the real auction format" will be the inevitable winner...the only question will be 'how long'.
posted on April 25, 2001 11:38:54 AMthe first (I think) "real" online auction is here
You mean a fixed ending time auction is not real? Then what were all those checks I sent out over the last couple of years for? And why are people all across the country sending me stuff?
edited because "country" has a "u" in it...
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Apr 25, 2001 11:40 AM ]
posted on April 25, 2001 12:03:52 PM
From a programming standpoint I think all you would need to do is change the compare a little bit...
Since eBay is keeping all of the bid information including date and time why couldn't you simply compare the last bid time + x minutes... if the current bid is less than that time or less than the original auction end time accept it...
I like the idea as an option... there are some items that I as a seller would like to have this ability. Items that are extremely popular or "faddish" are the ones where this could be valuable.
As a buyer I really like to snipe... so much so that I have programs that do it for me if need be. Why do I do that? Because I'm not the only sniper out there...and if I don't snipe I don't win.
I've found that Buy it Now helps if I really want the item, but it takes away from the fun of an auction format and my desire to get the best price that I can.
In a real auction it is always nice to be able to "up the ante" just a little bit at the end... Make that one last bid hoping that the person you are bidding against will finally call it quits. That type of auctioning is fun... and can be profitable for both the seller and the venue.
I can take it either way... I think as an option it would be a great enhancement for eBay sellers. I would NOT like to be forced to make all of my auctions this way.
