bevskiwolf
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posted on April 27, 2001 06:19:32 AM new
In July, 2000 we sold a doll to a buyer that used BillPoint. In December 2000 we received an email from BillPoint that the husband of the winner was refusing to honor the charges made on that credit card.
BillPoint informed us that the winner (wife) opened a credit card in her husband's name. She then went on to win numerous doll auctions and used that credit card through BillPoint. Hubby got angry, refused to honor the charges, and told his bank he would not pay.
BillPoint admitted there are at least 5 sellers she did this to. If anyone out there has been charged back for a doll auction email me at [email protected].
I have contacted their local police but without proof (we didn't use delivery confirmation at that time) they can do nothing but keep this story on record. Ironically, both hubby and wife admitted to me and to BillPoint they received the doll(s) and promised to make payment(s) to all sellers. That was in January, though and it is now the end of April and we still have not received payment. Yesterday the police told me she never received any dolls ever...
What I learned:
1. Use delivery confirmation for EVERY auction.
2. Credit card fraud is alive and well on eBay.
3. You can open a credit card in someone else's name, charge things, receive things and never ever have to pay for them or even get in trouble with the law.
Bevski
[email protected]
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reddeer
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posted on April 27, 2001 06:24:27 AM new
Ouch, here's another thread you might be interested in reading?
http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=298017
Good luck!
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reddeer
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posted on April 27, 2001 06:27:28 AM new
FYI - Delivery Confirmation doesn't prove much, other than the item was delivered to said address. It doesn't prove that the CC user actually received the goods. You need a receipt showing the signature of the CC holder on it.
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bevskiwolf
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posted on April 27, 2001 06:34:16 AM new
Reddeer thank you for the other thread. I do believe that Kdd and I were involved with the same buyer. I'll contact him/her via email.
At this point I don't even know what would satisfy as "proof".I don't like being taken. It's a small dollar amount but I'm steamed that she has apparantly gotten away with this.
You can open a credit card in someone else's name and not get in trouble??? I'm astounded the credit card company doesn't care that she did this.
Is no one accountable anymore?
Bevski
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bevskiwolf
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posted on April 27, 2001 06:37:48 AM new
Kdd/Kim...would you please email me if you see this thread?
Thanks,
Bevski
[email protected]
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yisgood
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posted on April 27, 2001 06:42:49 AM new
If the same husband/wife team have done this several times, that would be pretty good proof that this is deliberate fraud. Otherwise every married couple can just charge everything back and say the other person did it without their consent. Get a few scammed sellers together and file a fraud complaint. A woman tried this with paydirect and a seller collected names of victims, went to her home town and got her arrested for fraud.
Good luck.
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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reddeer
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posted on April 27, 2001 06:43:37 AM new
I'm glad to hear it was a small $ amount involved. Not everyone has been so lucky.
I've read numerous posts on the eBay boards where some HIGH $ amounts were involved.
[ edited by reddeer on Apr 27, 2001 06:44 AM ]
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bevskiwolf
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posted on April 27, 2001 06:53:17 AM new
Yisgood, hi. I also spoke to the DA's office yesterday and I was told that I would be expected to show up "numerous times" for court appearances.
I'm in Pennsylvania and they are in Kentucky. No way I can keep taking off time to fly out there over 26 bucks.
I am the only one who has so far reported them to their local police. If I didn't then what's to stop them from doing it again? It's a pretty good scam and they're obviously going to get away with it.
My buyer is suspended. Is it still possible to contact other sellers through her feedback or is that now considered illegal with eBay?
Bevski
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tomwiii
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posted on April 27, 2001 06:55:21 AM new
TRUE...and NOT TRUE...
DC does provide a cheap protection of sorts! I've had 5 winners email me in the past complaining that their items never arrived...
I replied as follows:
"Dear Bozo: I'm so sorry that you package is missing! The USPS Delivery Confirmation Tracking Web-Site indicates that it was delivered at 11:30am on Dec 20, 2000 -- please check it yourself: here is another copy of your DC number:
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
If your package does not show within the next 48 hours, please let me know so I can contact the POSTAL INSPECTORS SERVICE -- they've been super-helpful to me in the past tracking down stolen postal items!
Again, thank you for winning one of my auctions!"
EVERYTIME I've sent this email, a MIRACLE occurs! The item MAGICALLY APPEARS!
Another aspect of DC is this:
When you have the PO scan the # into their system, the clerk POSTMARKS the DC receipt! This serves as PROOF OF SHIPPING!
DC also gives your winners a feeling of security!
I USE DC ON EVERY ITEM!
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reddeer
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posted on April 27, 2001 06:57:58 AM new
Bevski
Here's eBay's spam policy.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/spam_policy.html
I think it's safe to use their feedback to contact past sellers.
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redskinfan
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posted on April 27, 2001 07:00:45 AM new
bevski,
I live in ky. If I can help...let me know and I'll see what I can do.
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kyms
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posted on April 27, 2001 07:25:50 AM new
Sorry to hear about your problem. I too had a similar situation, Billpoint Chargeback and doll. I lost the money and a favorite doll, but this was Christmas Time... After this, I pay for all DC's, it is worth the peace of mind.
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jensmome
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posted on April 27, 2001 08:35:21 AM new
Bev,
The wife fraudulently opened an account. The bank made the mistake of not being diligent. In my 13 years in CC I've seen this alot. Most times the bank tries to make the family responsible and calls it a domestic problem. So my guess is that they told him pay up. Since he doesn't want to, the idea of not getting the doll has occurred. There's a chargeback code for non-receipt but not for spousal fraud.
This is important. They are way past chargeback time frames. And they will need documentation that they have tried to resolve the problem with you (and the others). Both MasterCard and Visa require this.
You are pretty much at the mercy of Billpoint's and the banks' chargeback department. You're going to need to get as much collateral evidence from your fellow victims and work together on this. If you'd like me to help you through some of the intricacies let me know here and we can take it off line.
Good Luck.
Kathy
[ edited by jensmome on Apr 27, 2001 08:38 AM ]
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bevskiwolf
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posted on April 27, 2001 09:37:46 AM new
Tom, hi. I won't sell without DC's ever again. It's amazing how quickly "lost" items are found once we give them the number, eh? Happens to us weekly.
I was assured by BillPoint and by the police that the DC would have been sufficient evidence. They admitted (at first) to having the dolls and promised BillPoint they would make good.
We've only had one DC (in 5,000 or so packagags) that shows it arrived and the woman insisted she did not receive it. We worked with her post office and provided a copy of the DC. We were covered with the PO and as far as we know, they refunded her. We never heard from her again once we faxed the PO the copy of the DC.
Redskin fan, thanks for the offer. I'm going to contact the other sellers on her feedback from July until her suspension. She got a lot of negs very quickly. Her story keeps changing. She says in her feedback she had brain surgery, but she told me on the phone she had a nephew that stole the card and ran up a lot of bills. BillPoint only dealt with the hubby as he was the cardholder and he said she opened the account without his knowledge. BillPoint was polite and cooperative with me and even emailed and snailed him all our names, addresses and amounts due. But that was February and I'm still dead in the water, doll-less and fundless.
Considering the volume of business we do it's amazing it only happened to us once.
Please DC *every* shipment, folks. I can't stress that enough.
Bevski
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bevskiwolf
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posted on April 27, 2001 09:40:03 AM new
Kathy, you're welcome to email me [email protected]
Thanks for your advice and kind offer Ü
Bevski
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reddeer
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posted on April 27, 2001 10:02:31 AM new
I was assured by BillPoint and by the police that the DC would have been sufficient evidence.
I wouldn't count on that. Billpoint makes no such claims on their site. They suggest having a tracking number to help against CC disputes, but that's certainly no guarantee that you will win each & every chargeback filed against you. If the cardholders bank allows the chargeback to stand, you'll still be SOL, as Billpoint sure as hell won't be eating the loss.
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NearTheSea
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posted on April 27, 2001 10:14:04 AM new
Bevski-I don't care much for delivery confirmation. I don't use it. There is no signatures for the receiving end to sign.
Sure it can show up on their tracking system as delivered, but the neighbor could have got it.
BUT, the P.O. has a signature D.C. now, and it cost I beleive about $1.75, I think a signature is a better (legally?) than none.
[email protected]
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kdd
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posted on April 27, 2001 12:17:48 PM new
Hi Bevski,
This has got to be the same buyer! My buyer is in Kentucky also.
I'll email you!
Kim
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bevskiwolf
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posted on April 27, 2001 01:39:46 PM new
This world is sooooooo tiny. We have the same buyer.
I'll be back to update as it progresses.
Thanks again everyone,
Bevski
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catawba
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posted on April 27, 2001 07:00:14 PM new
sorry- double post
[ edited by catawba on Apr 27, 2001 07:05 PM ]
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catawba
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posted on April 27, 2001 07:00:17 PM new
Delivery confirmation is not PROOF that your item has been received. I am currently going through a chargeback from a customer who purchased a sweater from me for $50.00. I have delivery confirmation. Buyer is adamant that item was not received, and has now filed for a chargeback through Paypal, and my Paypal account has been frozen.In turn, I have closed down my Paypal account.
The ONLY way you have proof is if the package is personally signed for by the buyer.
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lanefamily
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posted on April 27, 2001 07:17:56 PM new
Get our of here. DC is proof for PayPal Damon even said so. There was a few of us that almost got kicked off of AW pining him down on that one. Got the mods mad at us and lock our thread.
Good ol PayPal.
Jim
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capotasto
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posted on April 27, 2001 07:24:24 PM new
Excuse me catawba, but if you have DC and shipped to a verified address, Paypal says you are protected. Why was your account frozen in this case?
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capotasto
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posted on April 27, 2001 07:28:03 PM new
bevski: "We've only had one DC (in 5,000 or so packagags) that shows it arrived and the woman insisted she did not receive it."
DC costs 40 cents, X 5,000 packages = $2,000.
So you have paid the USPS $2,000 to protect against one package claim?
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toollady
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posted on April 27, 2001 09:52:03 PM new
I hope I'm not speaking out of turn capatasto, but I would think that bevski's customers paid that 40 cents and not bevski.
Waving hi to Bevski! Sorry to meet up with you under these circumstances 
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bevskiwolf
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posted on April 28, 2001 08:17:34 AM new
Toollady- hi! Long time no seeski Ü
And you are correct, ma'am. Buyers pay delivery confirmation as per auction TOS.
Bevski
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JWPC
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posted on April 28, 2001 08:39:19 AM new
We considered DC, but rejected it in favor of USPS Insurance; reason being, DC doesn't protect the item from actually getting lost or broken - and it also proves the item was shipped. We have had only a couple of folks whine about paying for insurance in 5 years - we make it clear we won't ship without insurance, period. Now, on a very few customers that I just get that "feeling" about, I add DC - to prove delivery, but have never had occasion to use it.
We ship a great deal UPS, and of course deliver confirmation is automatic, plus insurance included, and MUCH less costly than the USPS.
We ship many of our larger breakables UPS and insured for $1,000, which only costs an extra $3.50, which is a minor cost compared to the USPS. We insure many for $1,000 because UPS handles all items insured for $1,000 and up in a totally different manor.
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reddeer
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posted on April 28, 2001 09:42:11 AM new
It must depend on the local UPS branch, but many of them will no longer insure antiques and collectibles.
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heygrape
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posted on April 28, 2001 12:00:40 PM new
Bevski!!!!!!! Hi ya old broad!!!
Sorry to see ya under these circumstances though.
Very interesting thread. I shall be watching it closely.
Go Get 'em Girl!!!!
Grapey
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noshill
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posted on April 28, 2001 05:24:34 PM new
Grapey & Bevski,
It's been a long time since I have seen both of my favorite eBayers in the same thread.
Just had to say HI! HHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIII!!!!!! 
Nostalgia: The good old days multiplied by a bad memory.
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