posted on May 2, 2001 08:47:09 AM
I've heard a bit about Citybank's c2it, being like PayPal and all. Is anyone signed up with this service for accepting payments? From their fees page ( https://www.c2it.com/C2IT/fees.jsp ) it seems that they don't charge for receiving money, only sending, and it's a minimum of 50¢ per transaction.
posted on May 2, 2001 09:00:29 AM
Maybe a C2it rep should be summoned. I've been told one thing on this messageboard on how their service works, but when I call C2it or look at their TOS I'm told a completely different thing.
They aren't exactly new. I've had my account with them since October. I admit the account does have cobwebs on it.
If I was to bid on an auction accepting BillPoint, C2it, or PayPal I've got to make a decision which to use. Am I going to use my credit card with BillPoint or PayPal for free, or am I going to decide I want to pay the credit card fees ( 2.2% minimum 50 cents in my case.) Also if the seller doesn't accept the payment for some reason, I'm still out the fees for the transaction.
You will find that even if you aren't selling MENSA T-Shirts the buyers will be able to do some basic calculations to help guide them in that decision process.
posted on May 2, 2001 11:14:33 AM
uaru: Do you know how to contact them and ask if one of their reps could come here to answer our questions? That would be good.
posted on May 2, 2001 11:30:33 AM
Hey people, how about looking at the Help section on their website?
Here's what I got from https://www.c2it.com/C2IT/help_ac.jsp
"What is the relationship between AOL QuickCash and c2it Service?
c2it and AOL QuickCash are compatible person-to-person payment services offered by Citibank, F.S.B. AOL QuickCash (AOL keyword: AOL QuickCash) is a unique version of c2it specially designed for users with an AOL e-mail address. Users of the service with AOL e-mail addresses are directed to use AOL QuickCash, but are offered the same features as c2it. As a c2it or AOL QuickCash Member you are able to accept payments from either service."
I saved the fees as an image at http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/jb/jbooks/.mids/fees.jpg
I've used it to receive money and did not pay anything to put the money on my credit card. I think you only have to pay $3 if you want them to mail you a check.
posted on May 2, 2001 12:04:46 PM
I was reading some of the information on the help pages on the C2it site, and came across this:
Do I get charged for using c2it Service to receive money?
At this time, there is no charge if you Get Cash and apply to a credit card or a bank account. There is a $3.00 processing fee if you request that a check to be sent to you.
(bold added)
Awwww, shoot-
C'mon guys- if you're going to be charging, or you're thinking you might someday start charging sellers to receive their money, why don't you just come right out and say it?!?
Prospective customers shouldn't have to use some combination of a dictionary, a decoder ring and the force to figure out what you're trying to say without actually saying it. Kind of reminds me of some of the other payment services out there right now.
I am on the fence...it's tempting, but to place myself in the bidders shoes, chargebacks good.
BUT if I get a freak, then I am
...now were is the UBB for sc*!#d!
posted on May 2, 2001 12:25:02 PM
I would be willing to give up the option of a chargeback as a buyer if I could be guaranteed I would not have to face one as a seller.
Bidders have the option of being able to investigate a seller prior to bidding- they can check out his feedback record and ask him questions if they have any concerns.
Sellers don't have near that opportunity. Until the prospective bidder actually bids, they don't even know they're there, and if they snipe, there's no chance at all to do anything as basic as look up their feedback record.
posted on May 2, 2001 06:21:24 PM
I have invited C2it to respond here but you must realize that it is a real bank and every word posted must be approved by a room full of lawyers.
I had a long meeting with them some months ago and numerous phone calls and emails to discuss what they were offering. They are interested in giving users what they want. We discussed the problems of credit cards and charge backs. It is impossible to come up with blanket terms that will cover 100% of the people 100% of the time. Paypal tried and failed several times. They are still promising more than they actually give, considering all the complaints of buyers and sellers who were ripped off believing that Paypal could prevent it. I'd rather deal with a company that gives more than they promise than one that promises more than they give.
For the most part, C2it promised me (and have told others on the phone) that once funds are in a seller's account, they will not be taken back, even if the customer makes a charge back and it is successful, even if the credit card used was stolen. But the seller has to act responsibly. Shipping out of the country, not keeping good proof of shipping, taking orders that should be viewed as suspicious may give C2it the right to take the money back. Suppose the same seller gets three charge backs with fraud complaints. Suppose the seller makes a deal with Romanian George and does thousands of dollars of business paid for by stolen credit cards. Would you expect C2it to eat that? But if they made a promise on the site, even with explanations, you can bet that some seller would believe that they are covered 100% no matter what stupid deal they make.
So my opinion (and I don't speak for C2it) based on what I was told, is that honest sellers with common sense will be protected. This is better than the protection the merchant account I pay for gives me.
As for the complaints of buyers unwilling to pay fees, I say this:
1) for the first three months, it's free. Most of my buyers are new.
2) it's only 1% if a citibank card is used. very easy to obtain for free
3) there is a $10 sign up for new buyers, pays for the first $1000 of charges
4) smart buyers know that they ARE paying the paypal or billpoint fees one way or the other. Some sellers add it to the item cost, others add it as a handling fee. But if this is the big concern, give your buyers a 1% discount for using C2it. It's still cheaper than billpoint or paypal.
So far, all of my buyers this week have signed up for C2it.
I could probably grab buyers and sellers that have been protected under the programs if you would like to back the statements up. There are specific guidelines to be followed and all sellers are protected from charge backs if they follow the Seller Protection Program to a "T".
The Buyer Protection Program is also covered in-depth on the site. We can't promise recovery if they are defrauded, but we will make the attempt to clear the dispute. This does not obviate the rights of the consumer to file a charge back.
posted on May 2, 2001 07:07:25 PM
Damon,
I never said that all or even most defrauded folks on Paypal were not protected. I said that there were many who believed they were when they weren't. I'm sure you can name a few who were. So can I. But I also know a few who weren't. And they DID follow the TOU (the version of it that was posted at the time of the transaction). By they were stuck arguing with the Paypal customer service person that yes, delivery confirmation is acceptable proof and it is right in the TOU while the CS person insisted it wasn't good because it didnt have a signature.
Paypal started out by pretending there could be no charge backs. Then they about faced to allowing complaints because it was better than getting charge backs. Then they had a $5000 protection policy. Then they changed it to the dispute less the deductible and what ebay covers. And not many folks realize that it only covers verified premiere or business accounts (a distinction C2it doesnt have). Little makes a company look suspect than a constantly changing TOS and customer service people who haven't even read the latest version yet.
I commend Paypal for finally coming up with a plan that's workable and sticking to it most of the time. I don't blame Citibank for not wanting to go down that winding road.
posted on May 2, 2001 07:31:38 PM
Speak of the devil, guess what I got in my mail today from C2it. This would really be great to post on a web site, I need to get this sucker scanned because you won't believe it.
"Important Information Regarding Your Privacy".
Catagories of Personal Information We Collect and May Disclose
The personal information we collect from you comes from the following sources:
*Information we receive from you at enrollment on on other forms, such as name, address, social security number and telephone number.
*Information about your transactions with us, our affiliates, or nonaffiliated third parties, such as your c2it transactions, account balances, payment history, and account activity.
*Information we receive from a consumer reporting agency, such as your credit bureau reports and other information relating to your credit worthiness.
*Information we receive about you from other sources, such as third parties
We may disclose any of the above information that we collect to affiliates and nonaffiliated third parties as described below.
You may have known me to be argumentative, and rude, and narrow minded, on this message board but I don't think you've never seen me out and out lie. I got this in the snail mail today. I can limit some of the disclosure, but I have to fill out a privacy choice form and mail it back to them (no they didn't include a self addressed envelope either!!!)
I bit irked to say the least. They've got my credit card info, my bank info, my social security number, address, phone number, and now they want to share that! They also want to share information on my c2it transactions!
I'll try and get this damn thing scanned and show you the whole thing in the next few days.
ALL financial institutions are required to send out that privacy notice... and if you want to keep your information private, you are required to contact each insitution individually.
I've received more than a dozen of these notices in the past month... in bank statements, credit card statements, brokerage statements, etc.
They all read about the same.
None of the financial institutions I deal with has provided an envelope for this purpose.
posted on May 3, 2001 08:28:17 AM
I don't know about you, but when I enrolled there was a big screen that detailed all of this and gave me the choice to maintain my privacy. All I had to do was click on the box.
I went back to the site and found on the bottom of the homepage a "help" button to click on that gave me all this information and the following:
https://www.c2it.com/C2IT/privacypromise.jsp
Privacy Choices Form
If you want to limit disclosures of personal information about you as described in this notice, please click here view the Privacy Choices Form.
posted on May 3, 2001 09:34:15 AMuaruI received no such notice from BillPoint, eMoneyMail, MoneyZap, PayDirect, or PayPal, I've had accounts with them even longer than C2it.
Financial institutions have until July 1 to send out these notices. PayPal is not a bank, brokerage or credit card company, so it may have to send out a notice.
This is an opt-out program --- to maintain your privacy and stop your financial institution from sharing information about you with affiliated and non-affiliated companies, you must send in the form, call, etc. (although at least one institution, Fidelity National, is not requiring customers to opt-out).
posted on May 3, 2001 09:37:24 AM
What I really like is how sellers (and buyers) can be charged all these fees, yet it is against the law for a seller to charge a surcharge or add a fee for using a credit card. Even if you are upfront about it, these payment services and credit card companies don't have to be. Score one for their side by manipulating the law.
Let's face it, the credit card companies don't WANT people to know that good old fashion cash is CHEAPER for everyone.
As a seller, I much prefer getting the money immediately than having to wait for a check, go to the bank to deposit it, wait for it to clear, and then sending out the merchandise. My buyers want their merchandise fast and I want to finish the auction quickly and get on to new ones.
You made a good point, though. Why can C2it and Paypal charge higher fees for credit cards than checking accounts but Pathmark and Walmart can't charge higher prices for credit cards than cash?
posted on May 3, 2001 10:07:31 AM
I understand getting the payment right away, and am certainly NOT opposed to that. I also understand they have to charge fees.
However, what I have NEVER understood is why paying by cash, check, or money order has to have penalties. I don't think its right for a business to be forced NOT to disclose their credit card fees. Think about it. We are not allowed to say, there is a 2.2% transaction fee added plus 30 cents, but really there is an added fee. We all calculate this into the cost of the item.
We have to tell people about sales tax. We should be allowed to disclose fees, and offer people a lower cost by NOT using a credit card and paying by some form of cash.
Honestly I think we should fight this issue and get a nice petition together stating we are "As mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore". We have a right to list credit card fees, and we should have a right NOT to charge those fees if paying by some form of cash.
People in this country (USA) are so far in debt because we have been convinced that credit cards are THE WAY to do business and buy things.
posted on May 3, 2001 11:22:02 AM
There is absolutely nothing wrong either legally or in Paypal's TOU or on ebay with saying:
"2.5% handling fee charged on all items. A discount of equal amount is given if buyer pays with check, money order, c2it, achex, bidpay... etc"
This convoluted method of charging only for paypal and billpoint is the same way that the services get away with it. They charge for all methods, not just credit card. But they discount if you dont use a credit card.
posted on May 3, 2001 02:54:38 PM
Yisgood:
Nice, very nice....
Have you ever had a bidder complain to ebay? I used to use similar wording (but not exact) and I got alot of bidder complaints. Ebay emailed me a few times threatening to NARU me, so I quit.
Maybe the way you word it makes all the difference? (I know it works that way with my spouse)
posted on May 3, 2001 04:19:20 PM
Actually, you CAN'T say that on eBay nor even on your own website (if you have a merchant account). Sure fire way to get you NARU'd.
There can be no extra fees (other than handling), and no discounts for cash customers.
What kills me is all these payment services cropping up, with different fees and different requirements. Next they will ask us to stand on our heads, stick a finger in our ear, and whistle dixie just so we can withdraw money from our account that is OUR money.
posted on May 3, 2001 04:46:36 PMThere can be no extra fees (other than handling), and no discounts for cash customers.
Actually, the above comment is incorrect (at least, according to Master Card, but I guess they would probably know).
A surcharge fee cannot be added to the price of goods or services that you purchase on your MasterCard card. Here are questions to help determine if the fee being charged is a surcharge.
Is the fee added regardless of whether you pay by cash or credit card? If so, it is not considered a surcharge.
Does the merchant offer a discount if you pay cash? If so, this is permitted.
