lorndav
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posted on May 5, 2001 06:33:55 AM new
If this has already been posted sorry, thought it may be of interest.
ebaY is eliminating certain kinds of memorabilia. They are claiming
that what they are forbidding from the site are items that promote
hatred, violence or racism. ebaY is now prohibiting items even if they
are of historical significance, and are also banning items associated
with notorious murderers.
For example these items will be banned and removed if listed:
**Items that bear symbols of the Nazis and the Nazi SS, including
authentic German WWII memorabilia
**Items that bear symbols of the KKK or other hate groups
**Crime scene photographs
**Morgue and autopsy photographs
**Letters and artwork from notorious murderers
**T-shirts bearing the likeness of a notorious murderer
**Copies of hate/racism/violence propaganda materials
**Electric chairs and related capital punishment items
Examples of items that say may still be listed:
**German coins and stamps from the 1930s and 1940s, regardless
of markings
**German WWII memorabilia that doesn't bear Nazi or SS markings;
**Most historical books and movies about WWII or Nazi Germany,
even if Nazi symbols appear on the item
**War documentaries or documentary photos portraying victims of
war or violence
**Items of historical importance associated with acts of violence
against public figures. These bans take effect on 17 May. At that
point, all listings that include the prohibited items listed above may
be ended. For more info go to
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-offensive.html
For a news article about this go to
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010503/sfth080.html
TAG finds ebaY censorship reprehensible, and the very short notice
that may well put several sellers out of business or greatly damage
their businesses, even worse.
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phbroz
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posted on May 5, 2001 06:35:45 AM new
....and now "Orange", what's next? 
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rarriffle
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posted on May 5, 2001 07:21:19 AM new
Censorship abounds!
IMHO,
Banning items such as these is another way of saying these things never happened, ie:the holocaust.
The KKK and WWII Germany are a part of our history and any time they are mentioned becomes another reminder of what hate can do to our society.
The serial killer bannings do not get my sympathy as IMO anyone who would want to collect or deal in this area is just as sick as the person who did it.
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Empires
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posted on May 5, 2001 08:24:22 AM new
Reducing ignorance at the cost of a sale is not a bad thing. Banning hate crime memorabilia will open new doors to those that want to allow the selling and propogation of such material. Just my opinion, now I'll go bury my head again.
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TheRedCircle
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posted on May 5, 2001 06:19:51 PM new
Whoops...got really indignant after misreading the banned items list. Never Mind. =)
----
TRC
[ edited by TheRedCircle on May 5, 2001 06:23 PM ]
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Malady
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posted on May 5, 2001 06:32:04 PM new
I get the impression that it is a ban against German WWII items. What about Japanese WWII items? This is discrimination. I am of Japanese heritage and I demand that we get the same treatment!
Just kiddin' you guys...
**Most historical books and movies about WWII
I make history my hobby. I can't believe it. History teaches you not to make the same mistakes.
Next we'll have a book burning... Wasn't that the theme in an Asimov book (or was it Bradbury)...Farenheit, something...
[ edited by Malady on May 5, 2001 06:35 PM ]
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jmjones6061
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posted on May 5, 2001 07:09:06 PM new
it's Bradbury - Fahrenheit 451 -
I thought that eBay was an adult site and that adults were supposed to think for themselves? hmm...guess I'll have to ask Meg to rethink that thought for me.....
Jane
(sitting back and being protected from that awful history stuff some more...)
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selecto
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posted on May 6, 2001 05:37:43 AM new
Christmas stuff should be next, on the theory that throughout history - from the Crusades through the conquest of the New World - Christians did away with more people than the Nazis ever dreamed of.
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uaru
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posted on May 6, 2001 06:53:48 AM new
On "The History Channel" they have a program called "History's Lost and Found" that features an item being auctioned off on eBay's site.
They offered a Kamikazi pilot's helmet and scarf on one program recently. Under their guidelines that item would be still legal, but if the helmet was from a Germany WW2 pilot it would be illegal.
I have a problem with hypocrisy.
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jerseylily
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posted on May 6, 2001 07:27:41 AM new
ebay will NOT ban items with swastikas, SS marks etc at this time, if you see one, just go to the page to report same, and you will get another page that states that ebay allows all items pertaining to nazis, SS, swastikas, etc that are at least 50 years old. I think what they ban are the "new" neo nazi and skin head type, hitler worship things.
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uaru
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posted on May 6, 2001 07:53:50 AM new
ebay will NOT ban items with swastikas, SS marks etc at this time, if you see one, just go to the page to report same, and you will get another page that states that ebay allows all items pertaining to nazis, SS, swastikas, etc that are at least 50 years old.
jersylily,
The new terms on eBay's announcements page doesn't seem to agree with you.
Examples of items that will generally be removed under the expanded guidelines are:
**Items that bear symbols of the Nazis and the Nazi SS, including authentic German WWII memorabilia
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capotasto
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posted on May 6, 2001 08:33:16 AM new
The 50 yewar rule was the old rule. Now all such items are banned no matter their age.
(But would that pertain to a swastika used as a pre-WWII good luck symbol, or an even earlier American Indian symbol? If so, ebay is nuts!)
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jerseylily
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posted on May 6, 2001 09:02:48 AM new
If ebay does ban items with nazi marks that are over 50 years old, then why are there hundreds and hundreds of nazi items with swaskikas, SS runes, not to mention KKK items, all over ebay right as this is posted? I think the 50 year rules is still in place and you are reading too much into the "new" rule. black helicopters?
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godfatherstoys
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posted on May 6, 2001 09:07:58 AM new
There is a grace period until the rule takes effect, the 17th of May I read. Then the eBay gestapo steps in. "Vee have Vays of suspending your account"
none
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jerseylily
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posted on May 6, 2001 09:12:50 AM new
You are correct, I am wrong. I re read the exact posting at ebay and see where the rules will take effect on the 17 of May. This will be a sad day, as this was history, and is generally collected by people who are interested in world war two history, not by nazis or racists (the nazi stuff). It is really no more offensive, than say items bearing the "rising sun" are. Too bad, it will mean a loss of business for ebay, loss of market, and the items will still be here and sold and traded under diffent venues. I am very surprised that ebay would follow this path, and did not believe it, until I read it again and again. Sorry I was a doubting thomas.
[ edited by jerseylily on May 6, 2001 09:13 AM ]
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jerseylily
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posted on May 6, 2001 09:28:31 AM new
I just wrote a nice email/letter to ebay, expressing my displeasure with their imminent ban on nazi/ss items (not to mention kkk). I will wait and see what they will say. I feel they are being quite two faced, still allowing coins and stamps with the nazi swastika and SS runes etc, but disallowing any militaria items with the same markings. Of course, they can do what ever they want, but I don't have to be happy about it.
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jerseylily
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posted on May 6, 2001 09:40:13 AM new
also....ebay states:
"Examples of items that may generally be listed include:
**German coins and stamps from the 1930s and 1940s, regardless of markings;
**German WWII memorabilia that doesn't bear Nazi or SS markings;"
Evidently, the folks at ebay, are not real familiar with the military procedures of Germany during World War two. There is something called the "waffenamt", which is the German military stamp the appears on pretty much all military equipment of the war, which has a tiny, tiny little eagle and swastika on it. We are talking very, very small, the waffenamt mark, is small but does have the swastika and is on almost all military equipment of the war.
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Neidhart
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posted on May 6, 2001 11:46:42 AM new
I think they're just knuckling under to the German and French governments, which outlaw traffic in Nazi-related items.
This is a dangerous precedent. Maybe next they'll ban Playboys and all magazines featuring scantily-dressed women, because they're illegal in Saudi Arabia.
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tjyoung2001
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posted on May 9, 2001 02:48:03 PM new
Just how far are they going to go with this?
Wasn't the swastika a religous symbol long before Hitler and the Nazi's ever existed? Will these be banned as well?
Are items with the Confederate flag on them banned too? I'm wondering if they will go so far as to ban memorabilia from the TV show The Dukes of Hazzard, or the Mississippi state flag?
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twinsoft
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posted on May 9, 2001 03:22:03 PM new
As usual, those complaining the loudest are spreading more misinformation:
Examples of items that may generally be listed include:
Most historical books and movies about WWII or Nazi Germany, even if Nazi symbols appear on the item
My own suggestion:
Stop complaining and take your Nazi junk somewhere else. Collectors, my Aunt Fanny.
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surrrfurtom
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posted on May 10, 2001 07:52:51 AM new
I don't collect any of the Nazi or KKK stuff and but do object to censorship in any form. EBay is an adult site and think that adults should be able to buy and trade anything as long as it isn't illegal.
Adults shouldn't need someone else deciding what is or isn't "immoral". Freedoms are chipped away through censorship by the so-called politically correct police.
It is often a vocal minority that tends to get heard through organized objections. Write meg at [email protected] if you have an opinion.
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sharkbaby
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posted on May 10, 2001 08:19:00 AM new
[i] "Banning items such as these is another way of saying these things never happened, ie:the holocaust.
The KKK and WWII Germany are a part of our history and any time they are mentioned becomes another reminder of what hate can do to our society.
The serial killer bannings do not get my sympathy as IMO anyone who would want to collect or deal in this area is just as sick as the person who did it." [/i]
HUH?? Serial killers....Mass murderers...What's so different?
[ edited by sharkbaby on May 10, 2001 08:19 AM ]
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clean1
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posted on May 10, 2001 09:04:39 AM new
I'm getting sicka nd tired of the phrase "hate crime". Why is murdering someone because of their ethnic heritage or sexual orientation a "hate crime" but regular murder isn't ? All crimes are crimes of hate.
By the way, I'll probably get "poo -poohed" over this, but if I as a straight white mail murder someone of a different ethnic heritage or sexual orientation, I would be charged with a "hate crime". I doubt very seriously it would be called that if it was the other way around.
[ edited by clean1 on May 10, 2001 09:08 AM ]
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Empires
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posted on May 10, 2001 09:08:07 AM new
The reason is because it's HATE driven and for an end purpose. Simple as that.
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klink
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posted on May 10, 2001 10:00:46 AM new
Does anyone know if the Jewish community in the United States has pressured ebay to stop the auctioning of such items?
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figmente
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posted on May 10, 2001 10:02:07 AM new
-If there's one thing I can't stand, it's intolerance.
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bhearsch
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posted on May 10, 2001 11:52:19 AM new
I personally don't believe that objects are inherently "EVIL" in and of themselves. Banning historical items just doesn't make any sense to me and I find the act of BANNING to be very offensive, not the item being banned. It brings to mind the term "book burning" and all of it's
unpleasant associations. The People behind the objects can be evil, NOT the objects themselves.
Blanche
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Dragonfyree
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posted on May 10, 2001 12:04:13 PM new
I sell true crime books and magazines on Ebay. Some contain crime scene photo's and morgue shots. Do they meet Ebay's standard of "substantial social, artistic or politicial value"? Who Knows? Who decides? Is Helter Skelter ok because it's consider a classic of the genre but the books that are put out over a weekend after a crime is commited aren't?
Not Dragonfyree anywhere but here.
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jebmil
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posted on May 10, 2001 03:11:33 PM new
Does anyone know where the Third reich collectors and sellers are going?
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rustybore
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posted on May 10, 2001 04:02:16 PM new
Germany, which has banned Mein Kampf, has the largest number of neo-Nazis in Central Europe. Seems to me that niether Germany nor ebay realise that anti-democratic or otherwise unpopular views cannot be fought by administrative measures.
Ultimatly banning these items on ebay could have the unwanted effect of driving these groups "below the radar" so to speek. Not to mention closing off one important avenue for all the legitimate collectors of these items...
One more factor is that ebay, having propeled itself to household icon status, tends to be a trend setter in many areas of the online world. In a few years, we may very likely look back and wonder how this amazing www.com world might have developed - had ebay just held the line on cencorship.
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