posted on May 15, 2001 05:47:18 AM new
First let me say a couple of things before I get to the meat of this post. I used to use ebay as a means of advertising my website.
Second, I don't think many (I may be wrong here though) will find this post to their liking.
Okay - here goes. When I first started listing on ebay over 3-1/2 years ago the intent was to sell an item. NOTHING else. I was paying ebay to give me space to sell THAT item. NOTHING else.
I was VERY surprised to see when they were allowing links to websites, so I added mine. I design websites as well, so my customers started listing and advertising their websites as well.
Then when ebay recently announced they were no longer allowing this I wasn't surprised or angry, I wasn't paying them to advertise my site.
I have one customer who does ALOT of advertising in print and on the internet and he says that 95% of his customers come from these venues, NOT ebay. This particular customer sells antiques and collectibles from an antique mall he owns and operates.
If any of you have the ability to disect your logs files, you may see that ebay ISN'T a big part of your traffic. I'm strictly talking about antiques and collectibles here though, so for new items your results may be different.
All I'm saying is that ebay wasn't selling us advertising they were selling us space to sell a single item. I think their first mistake was to allow links to begin with!
Sorry this is so long, but I just felt the need to voice my opinion. Others have their own opinions and that's why I ENJOY this board so much, I learn from each individual's experience, and perhaps someone can learn from mine.
I really think if your website offers logs reporting, you should delve into them and really disect them, you can learn ALOT about where your traffic is coming from. Take that information and use it to the best of your ability, ask your customers how they found you. You might be as surprised as I was.
posted on May 15, 2001 08:29:51 AM new
It's a good point. I buy and sell and can say I have never boughtfrom a a website link on ebay
evan If I had you are correct ebay is selling you one ad for one item (or multiple in dutch auctions)
posted on May 15, 2001 08:41:20 AM new
I basically agree with what you're saying.
Also, eBay cannot dictate what you include in your emails to your customers. Website links can go there and I'd think it more likely that someone that already has a pending transaction with you would be more likely to click on the link.
posted on May 15, 2001 09:01:36 AM new
I was beginning to think everyone thought I was a complete troll for a while there! Thank you for the comments, and I really do think that those with websites that have logs files really should disect them and try to learn from them if they don't already.
posted on May 15, 2001 09:23:43 AM new
I also agree. Ebay is a business and it's making a business decision. They let website links 'go' for a long time without any discernable benefit on their part (they charge banner ad people huge money to have the benefit of Ebay traffic) and publicly held companies simply are not allowed by shareholders eager for increases to let ANY stone remain unturned in the search for more profit. You can disagree about what a business SHOULD be (community, profit generating machine, or a little of both) but the fact is that when a business goes public it HAS to become a profit generating machine. and all those millions of eyeballs going to your website are potentially preventing Ebay from making the sale they might have made had that customer gone on to another ebay listing rather than a buyer's web site. You might think it's nickels and dimes, but think again. Seems like half the listings I click on have web site links (not to mention picture hosting companies, other outside vendor links, etc.) If a million people a day click on outside links and 10% of them buy something, that's a HUGE chunk of change gone from Ebay's coffers. There's no guarantee they WOULD have spent it on ebay, but people have less disposable cash these days. There's no way to know they wouldn't.
Personally if I ran Ebay, I would strive to make some concessions to sellers over this, and accept slightly lower revenues as a part of goodwill to keep my sellers happy. However, I also would not go public with a company when clearly it causes much of the control to be lost. When a company goes public, the people the shareholders hire to run the newly public company are hired for one reason only: to make it generate cash. They can be fired if they don't. That's why I have never understood the animosity against Meg Whitman. She's doing exactly what a CEO of a public company should. Go for the money.
Why do people always bash Meg? Bash Pierre, he's the one that sold off your little 'community' for cold hard cash, knowing EXACTLY what direction a publicly held company was likely to take (don't fool yourselves).
[ edited by brighid868 on May 15, 2001 09:30 AM ]
posted on May 15, 2001 09:27:07 AM new
> "Also, eBay cannot dictate what you include in your emails to your customers."
Actually, I've heard rumors of eBay implementing an auto end-of-auction response and email system so you CAN'T customize the EOA notice, and you only enter in specific info.
This way they can control that as well. Of course this EOA notice would make it there 5 days after the auction closes like their other "ask seller a question" email system.
This may be only rumor, but it wouldn't suprise me in the least.
And in the end it won't matter, since they will be continually ridding themselves of the annoying small sellers that don't want this type of control, and the big businesses left selling will be happy to pay for such a service so they don't have to.
posted on May 15, 2001 09:27:37 AM new
I can't comment on the origin of traffic to a website because I don't have a website and only sell on ebay. But I DO agree with your position that ebay does not sell us advertising space for our off ebay business...they are selling us space to sell the item we list only. Ebay is not in the business of facilitating the growth of other businesses...they are in the business of facilitating sales of items on their venue.
posted on May 15, 2001 09:39:13 AM new
Well certainly eBay can do whatever they want, but I think part of the furor is that they allow something for so long and after it has become an accepted practice, they suddenly want to shut the doors, and in doing so, they have a rather demeaning and two-faced explanation. For example, sellers who occasionally conducted offline transactions after auctions closed unsuccessfully are suddenly tarred with the same brush as all the spammers and bottom feeders. Now, those of us with website links on our pages are painted as parasitic by Mr. Pursglove. That's the kind of thing I really resent.
FYI, I do have a tracker on my site and roughly 50% of my hits come from eBay. Of those, they are divided pretty much equally between my auction item pages and my About Me page. But I acknowledge I don't use the same strategies and tools to market my website as others may, and of course each person should have a way to view their traffic stats.
I completely disagree with the premise that any eBay user who clicks on a website would have otherwise spent their time on eBay. This is an assumption that eBay has not researched whatsoever. They have not bothered to find out who these website-hoppers are -- what are their needs, what are they looking for, why do they choose to go to a site, how does that affect their eBay use?
You see, the relationship I have between eBay and my website is SYMBIOTIC, not parasitic and that affects the type of items I choose to market through both venues. There are things that do well on my site that don't do well on eBay and vice versa. My clientele is distinctly different although there is some overlap. Often my website buyers have been browsing on eBay for SOMETHING SPECIFIC, either to fill in their collection or to use at a specific occasion -- and perhaps they don't have the time or inclination to browse the glutted listings on eBay. Perhaps they go to my site because they like the look of my auction pages and feel more confident that they are dealing with someone knowledgeable and trustworthy. Would they have otherwise spent that time on eBay? Maybe not. Maybe they would have logged off, headed to their local mall or turned on the Home Shopping Network. I get quite frequent purchases off my website where the buyer wants it sent Overnight Express and is willing to pay the extra -- they are perhaps scrambling to meet a gift-giving deadline, or are anticipating a special occasion.
But once they buy from me, they may then bookmark my eBay Seller's List. I have a lot of repeat clients on eBay -- some of whom were FIRST cultivated on my website.
And if eBay truly cares about keeping eyeballs on THEIR SITE -- then why do banner ads? Remember the hue and cry raised by sellers when those were first announced? eBay seemed pretty nonplussed at our reaction. So what if the eyeballs go offsite to Ace Hardware's website? eBay is getting paid, so what?
I guess I have trouble appreciating eBay's explanations when it seems they aren't seeing the big picture.
posted on May 15, 2001 12:21:42 PM new
I couldn't have said it better, Lisa_B.
In addition, I find that most of my off-eBay sales are generated through eBay's own "e-mail the seller" form.
And most of my off-eBay sales (e-mail and web site) involve items or quantities of items that are not offered by anyone on eBay. They've been through the listings and, not finding what they need, contact me.
So eBay would not have gained a sale in these cases anyway. These people might well have gone on to a search engine to find what they were looking for.
posted on May 15, 2001 03:36:41 PM new
I think the real bummer is that there are no e-mail hyperlinks allowed either! No more "click here to ask me a question"
I know, there is already one in the auction, but it just seems so Big Brother-ish that Ebay is possibly monitoring all e-mail conversations.
Oh well, back to changing over every one of my auctions.
posted on May 15, 2001 04:07:12 PM new
I disagree with people who say ebay isnt selling you advertizeing space!!!
Every auction anyone lists on ebay or anyother website is an ad ebay is no different then anyother pay onlie classifide site the only way it really differs is that they offer the ability for people to bid on ads rather then just buy out right.
YOU ARE PAYING EBAY TO ADVERTIZE...
you are paying then to advertrize the Items you want to sell if they no longer allow links to personnal websites they should no longer allow the sale of domain names.
I guess I'll have to ask you to excuse my ignorance here, but does it NOT say at the top of the form we fill out Sell Your Item? I don't remember it saying Advertise Your Website. Unless they changed it, of course.
posted on May 15, 2001 05:05:03 PM new
actually Im looking at ebays Front page right now what it says is
EBAY the worlds online market place Welcome new users. there front page in fact says Nothing what so ever about selling but there is a big link for Local TRADEING.and there HOT Pick are on Half.com
posted on May 15, 2001 05:14:45 PM new
It says "EBAY the worlds online market place"
not "Ebay the worlds online portal to webspaces offering items for sale"
Local trading just means find the sellers near you...half.com IS ebay.
posted on May 15, 2001 05:56:16 PM new
Amy that is where you are wrong Ebay is nothing But a big portal full of web links.
in fact if it wasnt for website links ebay would be nothing but a bunch of colors and words that mean nothing to no one.
I personally myself never put my website link on any auction site but the fact remains that all who sell at online auction are paying these site to advertize.
ebay Host thousands of micro bussinesses and I Believe there Ruleing on links on your listings is a step backwords as well there new email policies are step in reverse as well.
I think all sellers email addresses should be posted in the open in each and every listing they have on ebay.
cant see how buyers can feel comfortable spending there money some place where the contact information and addresses of the people they are buying from is such a deep dark secert
that your not allowed to know it till after your already under obligation to buy .
Linking an Auction to a website and the other way around gives the seller more crediability as most websites give far more detailed info on the sellers as well as the merchandise they sell and the sellers back ground in there hobby or feild.
these new Limitations ebay is adding are the types of limitation you get from most free website hosts like geocities.
ebay is moveing backwords they are Chargeing and takeing away privilages .
I do have to agree with that last post of yours. I've always felt my customer's would be much more willing to spend their money with someone who would spend money and time building and growing a business as well as have their phone number and address in plain view. Unlike someone we all know!
posted on May 15, 2001 07:20:02 PM new
I just thought I'd pop in here and clarify something.
LIVE email links (clickable eMail links) ARE allowed on the description page. It was only a rumor that was allowed to fester over the weekend... (in my opinion - so that eBay could throw us all a bone on Monday by giving back to us something that was never taken away to begin with)... ANYWAY
Example:
eMail (live eMail link HERE) for more information about this item.
The use of a URL for that live link is apparently against the rules... so I guess it would hafta look something like:
eMail "ME" for more information....
or
eMail "HERE" for more information.....
But the point is, Clickable eMail Links ARE permitted within the items description.
Links to Websites and Home Pages are NOT allowed on the listing pages. Don't matter if ya like it or not... that's the way it is.
It's eBays sandbox, and they make all the rules. (personally, I think they should police their own site too... rather than relying on the community to "RAT" on eachother.)
The only folks I'll be turning into safeharbor for violations are the BIG BOYS.... I'm gonna be watchin' to make sure they TOW THAT LINE! *flexing my bicepts real tough-like*
posted on May 15, 2001 08:00:11 PM new
Granted, some people have taken too much advantage of eBay allowing links. However, there are valid reasons for allowing links. The type of stuff I sell, for example, takes a bit of trust in the seller because of the risk of getting a counterfeit. I know that anyone can set up a website, and register a business, but having done that does help to present a reliable image to potential customers. It seems to me to be very inconsistant, when eBay on one hand seems to be trying to attract more, and larger, businesses to list auctions, then on the other hand, seems to undercut the usefulness of a business listing auctions. Not everybody used the links as a way to put SPAM in their auctions, or SPAM auctions.
posted on May 15, 2001 08:13:03 PM new
Hmmm...I don't know Dman3, I have been selling on ebay for three years now and don't have a website...I don't seem to have a problem with credibility. Why, I have never even made a me page. I have had buyers spend GOOD money on my items.
As for the deep dark secret of email addresses etc...I give my email address in my ads...that, and my feedback seems to be adequate credibility.
I do think it is ironic that some of the same people who were so angry about ebay having banner ads that took people off site and therefore reducing the number of buyers for the ebay site items are now complaining about ebay trying to keep the buyers here instead of going to my competitor's website.
(and yes I also see the irony of ebay having banner ads that could take people off site yet complaining about sellers who do the same thing)
I also think the arguments about how it is good for ebay for these sellers to have links to outside websites because those websites bring people here too is as false as ebays similar arguments were in regards to the banner ads.
Lets be honest...many of those complaining about how all ebay thinks about is their bottom line should really look into the mirror because the arguments on why the website links should be permitted are nothing more than the complainers looking out for their OWN bottom line.
But it doesn't matter because as Dottie said...its ebay's sandbox so we either play by their rules or we go elsewhere...only problem is, there isn't another sandbox as good as this one!
posted on May 15, 2001 08:29:46 PM newits ebay's sandbox so we either play by their rules or we go elsewhere...only problem is, there isn't another sandbox as good as this one!
That could easily change --- as eBay tries to draw more big cats into the sandbox. We all know what cats do to sandboxes!
If the site becomes bloated with big retailers and enough of the little specialty sellers are driven out, eBay will have little to distinguish itself from dozens of other sites on the web.
Why go to eBay to buy Wal-Mart goods when there's a Sam's Club 1/2 mile away and I can have my cheap stuff today with no shipping charges?
posted on May 15, 2001 09:07:41 PM new
Vargas..for three years I have been reading the posts of "oh, so many people" who have given one reason or another why another site was going to have a better "sandbox" than ebay. I have read so many posts about this new site or that new site which was going to bury ebay.
I have read about boycots; million auction marchs; tidal waves of sellers going to Amazon, golds, yahoo; ebay was going to go down hill when they banned guns; ebay going down the tubes because of all the fraud and shilling; how no one trusts buying on ebay; how ebay is trying to drive out all the "little" sellers....yada, yada, yada!
So far, ebay hasn't shriveled up and died...far from it! Instead it just keeps growing!
Says the naysayer...the buyers are going to go away because the categories are so clogged with new retail junk...reality is, more buyers and sellers keep coming.
So now the latest doom and gloom (or is it wishful thinking?) is that as the "big boys" come on board we "little sellers" are going to be driven off...the sandbox will become to soiled by the "big cats"
Well...maybe. I won't deny there is going to be a time in the future that ebay will no longer dominate but I think it will be a long ways into the future. I think that when the "downfall" comes it will not be because ebay brought in the big guys..or because there was to much fraud..or because the categories were clogged...or because the small sellers left (which I doubt will happen)...but because something new came on the scene that made ebay (and ALL auction sites)obsolete.
I don't expect it will be soon. Even if the big cats enter the sandbox!
posted on May 15, 2001 09:32:35 PM new
Not allowing direct contact with the customer would be one more step toward the day someone really drags eBay over the coals before a judge on this "only a venue" fantasy. They have stretched the idea of agency without responsibility or liability way past any reasonable limits and when that card house comes tumbling down someone at eBay is going to be in a lot of trouble for telling their bosses what they wanted to hear.
posted on May 15, 2001 10:21:03 PM new
Ammendment...
Add to the list all the dire predictions of how ebay was going to be drug into court and be "whipped" because they really aren't "just a venue"...or they were a party to fraud...etc, etc, etc!
posted on May 16, 2001 03:46:24 AM new
Some of are web only companies.
80% of my web traffic comes from auction listings.
email me and i'll send you a link into my stats of traffic for my site.
The other 10% is me sending my personal friends to go check out the changes or to help test shopping cart links and spelling errors etc etc
5% is from search engines
For an item that sold for $9.99
I paid $.30 to list it
$.50 in FVF
an extra $.10 if I listed it for 10 days
What am I entitled to for the $.80-$.90 I paid........the profit off the $9.99 item minus those fees???
Is that all I am entitled to?
You folks with the shops or flea market stands that say Ebay is only part of your business.......good for you and good luck and may you prosper.
As a web only operation I feel I am entitled to a link to my site for the fees I pay.
I have an inventory of 200+ different items am I being forced to list every one of those on Ebay in order for them to sell when I have PROOF that 80% of my site traffic is a direct result of links in my auction add.
For December (my last BIG listing spree on Ebay) I had a $240 ebay bill due and $600 worth of bids, after wholesale costs for merchandise if I did not have the link to my site I would have had such a tiny profit for my busiest month of the year it would not be worth my while to ever bother listing again.
With more restrictions by the week and the fee hike in the middle of constant downtime and crashes I don't even want to list there anymore. I've I can't put the link to my site then I probably wont anytime in the near future either.
posted on May 16, 2001 07:10:31 AM new
[i]For three years I have been reading the posts of "oh, so many people" who have given one reason or another why another site
was going to have a better "sandbox" than ebay.[/i]
amy I never said any site was going to have a better "sandbox" than eBay. I simply think eBay needs to be careful about how much it relies on big mainstream retailers for its revenues.
No wishful thinking, no doom and gloom.
Just the reality that I have a SuperTarget on one corner and a Sam's Club on another and a Super Wal-Mart minutes from my lake house outside a little mountain town (the population of the entire county is only 17,000).
Why bid and wait when I can buy it at a great price while I'm shopping for cheap groceries?
It may take a few years, but there will be a SuperTarget and/or a Super Wal-Mart in every community in America... and these big retailers eBay wants won't want or need eBay anymore.
