posted on May 15, 2001 11:52:19 PM
I sold a small ceramic candydish 3 months ago. It sold for $1 seller paid for it with priority shipping. I used extra caution with this item and double boxed it, peanuts and bubble wrap. Well this package takes 4 weeks to arrive and when it does it is mangled as though it was run over.
Buyer wants to get paid $50 from USPS I told him they will need proof of payment since he paid by paypal he can print transaction page.
I told him twice I would not forge a receipt for $50, not worth going to jail over.
He told me he would take care of it, and he would file the claim.
Today I get a letter asking for confirmation of value of the item. I wonder if USPS would bust someone on Fraud charges for $50?
Maybe he has a large number of claims?
posted on May 16, 2001 02:15:46 AM
I received a letter 2 weeks ago.
I bought a book back in Feb. or March. The seller got the empty, mangled box back from USPS. he filed insurance for 2 books at $40.00, I paid $8.75 including shipping, no insurance.
I emailed asking what the deal was? I bought only one book not 2.
he emailed me back stating he had added a surprise gift of extra book, yeah , right!
I mailed letter back to USPS with no signature and no statement.
If I am going to be a party to fraud it will be for a lot more money than $40.00.
Either you take this person trying to commit fraud down. Or the rest of us will end up paying higher shipping prices. Do not ignore it, like a cockroach, you see one, it means there are hundreds of others in the wall.
posted on May 16, 2001 06:33:07 AM
If you can, print out the auction page & attach it to the letter from the USPS. Let them figure it out.....
[ edited by rab4554 on May 16, 2001 06:33 AM ]
posted on May 16, 2001 06:48:44 AM
You don't have a choice, you are going to have to help either help the thief or the victim. Just because the victim is a multi-billion dollar business shouldn't matter.
posted on May 16, 2001 01:10:53 PM
If the dish is rare or collectible and really worth $50, then it wouldn't be fraud if the buyer wants to collect its true value on the insurance claim... however, you wouldn't be likely to be able to provide proof that it's worth more than you sold it for, for them -- that's something they'll have to prove to the USPS themselves (by providing book values, a dealer's appraisal, etc.). It seems kind of odd to me that they'd pay $1.10 to insure it if it's only worth $1.00 to begin with.
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
posted on May 16, 2001 01:21:28 PM
I agree with Violetta - If I got lucky and bought something on eBay for a dollar that I knew was worth far more, then the higher amount is what I'd insure it for; HOWEVER, if I had to make an insurance claim, I'd know that I had to prove the worth of the item - I would not expect the eBay seller to provide that proof.
It sounds like a scam in this case, and I would not do anything to involve myself - I would tell the USPS what he paid me for it, but say that "it could be worth more - I don't know".
posted on May 16, 2001 01:35:41 PM
rarriffle.... I have on more than one occasion sent an extra book. The last one was about a month ago, it was addressed to XXX XXXXXXXXX High School and the email was an .org address. They'd bought a huge atlas, I enclosed an 8 1/2 X 11" map book missing front cover. It was designed to tear off each page and display anyway.
Many times I have an extremely common and cheap children's title with maybe a wrinkle or spot and will throw it in with a nice kid's book sale. "here's a bedtime story from (my name)"
Mom says please make time to read to your children
posted on May 16, 2001 02:08:40 PMvioletta & kudzurose,
I have had to do a couple of USPS claims, and they are VERY hard-nosed about it (at least the P.O. I went to). If they find out that it's an auction and the selling price was $1, that's ALL they will pay on it, even if you bought $200 insurance and can show 3rd-party retail proof that it's worth that much. (I'm in a very large city--perhaps a small-town P.O. is more lax with the rules or doesn't know them. Your mileage may vary.)
While I am normally a very strict rule follower, I feel like it's not the P.O.'s business if I get a terrific bargain and pay less for something than it's worth. If I can print out info from a website or a catalog and show exact retail (replacement) value, I really think the P.O. should pay on THAT, and NOT on the actual selling price, which may or may not reflect the true value.
That being said, I had no idea (before I did a claim) that the P.O. would only pay on sales price--I thought they'd pay on value if I could prove it.
jrb3,
If there's no place to find a published retail value (like at Replacements Ltd. for china/silverware), I'd put the "value" of it as the purchase price plus the shipping/insurance he paid. UPS reimburses those costs for claims, and I think it's perfectly legit to do that if the P.O. screws up and breaks your property. JMO
posted on May 16, 2001 04:46:36 PM
I sent a $9.99 item to Japan. It took 3 months to arrive. When it did it was damaged. The buyer paid nearly $60.00 postage! Now they went to P.O. to put in a claim for their $9.99 and the P.O. sent papers to my P.O. they sent me a letter to bring them in the papers showing the value of the item, but they clearly stated that they wanted any thing BUT an ebay invoice. Now this is not an everyday item and where could I possibly find an invoice or a catalog with this item listed showing what it cost? I can't take the auction receipt, if I did that them they would not want to pay the $9.99. The item is worth about $45.00 but we are only trying to get the $9.99 and they're making it almost impossible! I have a feeling I'm going to have to send back the money out of my own pocket! The sad part is the customer paid nearly $70.00 item and postage they only want their $9.99 back and the P.O. doesn't want to give it back. It only got damaged because of their poor handleing they should be responcable for it ALL!!
posted on May 16, 2001 07:14:15 PM
mcbrunnhilde - thanks for posting your experience on this! Did you appeal that ruling? It just seems to me that if someone had a damaged or lost item that was not related to eBay, (let's say that your Aunt Matilda sent you a valuable family heirloom, on which there are no papers of any kind) that the USPS would have to accept an appraisal or book value, etc. So why not with an item purchased on eBay?
Would it be prudent, if one has a valuable item lost or damaged in the mail, to NOT reveal that it was an eBay purchase? (That's if you want to use a book or appraisal value.) Something to think about.
posted on May 16, 2001 08:17:32 PM
Mcbrunnhilde -- I have experienced the same thing with the postal service. In my opinion, THEY are committing mail fraud by refusing to accept a reasonable value for it if adequate proof is provided. I was going to appeal one case, but decided, after I went to the effort to obtain an appraisal, to just keep the damaged piece myself. In my opinion, since they refuse to accept a print-off of the ebay auction for the proof of value, then it really is none of their business where you bought it, either (Or, if buying it on ebay is proof of its low value, then the ebay auction print-off should be proof of value, too -- they always want a copy of my check or money order as well, even though the form does not ask for that). But I haven't tried being hard-nosed about that -- I just have meekly accepted what they'll give me. But I am getting the bees in my bonnet stirred up and am going to pursue a complaint against them because they keep refusing to refund my postage even though it appears to me that publication 122 states, and posters here have also said, that if the item is completely damaged, they will refund postage as well. They NEVER have, for me, and I'm getting ticked off about all of the postage I've had to pay with nothing to show for it!
Joe, Yes, your buyer's situation seems odd to me, too. Since you already told him you wouldn't provide him with a receipt for an inflated value, I am surprised he has asked you to provide a receipt/statement. If he really wants to prove it's worth $50, he needs to obtain an appraisal or whatever other proof they'll accept. But maybe he has that and thinks he can convince them even with your statement of a lower price paid... or something?
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
If he marked the purchase price as $50, then he's a jerk and you did the right thing!
kudzurose
It DID end up OK. I corresponded with the seller about the problem, and she agreed that I should be able to replace the broken china (part of a large set I purchased) instead of get a piddly little amount from the P.O. (which would, I'm sure, have been prorated based on the number of pieces that were shipped) when I had paid for enough insurance to cover the replacement value of the broken items.
My mistake in taking it to my PO was that the clerk found out that it was an auction. I simply went to another PO to file the claim, and this time I just presented the e-mail printout I had from Replacements Ltd. showing the price of the items, and said the china was going to be a gift to my sister and didn't mention a sale. (It really WAS a gift on my part, it just wasn't a gift from the sender to me!!!) I think the clerk was suspicious, because she wanted a letter from the "sender" stating that it was a gift. I drafted a letter that I e-mailed to the seller, and I very carefully made sure that NO lies were told--it was ambiguous without appearing to be so, and you'd take it at face value unless you knew the true situation. She willingly signed it, and the claim was eventually paid.
Since the seller had to sign the claim form and the letter, it was important to have her cooperation. I know many sellers will simply send the insurance receipt to the buyer, but then the buyer could very easily forge the sender's information on the form. The buyer should always initiate a damage claim, and then have the paperwork sent to the seller, who then will complete the form and provide the insurance receipt.
I am not by any means the type of person who has shady dealings with the law, but I see no difference in the value of an item whether it was Grandma Nellie's Haviland plate that got broken or the one I just got for a song on eBay. If I pay for insurance, that means (to me) that if the carrier I entrust it to breaks it, I should be able to replace the item at the price someone else will sell it to me for. (Of course, if you can't find a published third-party verification or appraisal, then I think you'd HAVE to go on the selling price).
posted on May 16, 2001 09:03:58 PM
" I see no difference in the value of an item whether it was Grandma Nellie's Haviland plate that got broken or the one I just got for a song on eBay. If I pay for insurance, that means (to me) that if the carrier I entrust it to breaks it, I should be able to replace the item at the price someone else will sell it to me for."
mcbrunnhilde - I agree completely! It annoys the patooie out of me that, as much as we eBayers pay the USPS, they "discriminate" against us in matters like this.
