posted on May 30, 2001 01:03:13 AM
Was reading various threads and thinking about the sellers who say they are dependent on ebay for their income so they aren't going anywhere else!
There are NO guarantees that ANY of us are immune from being put out of business by some future change by ebay .. however far down the road.
SOOO .. my question is:
What are 'YOU' (general you) going to do when/if the day comes that 'YOU' can't list there for whatever reason (new rules, fees to high, fill in the blank).
How much work would it take a full-time, ebay-dependent seller to list 2 or 3 items on another site and let them sit there if necessary?? I mean really! Not the stuff you can't sell on ebay .. the stuff you CAN sell on ebay .. the stuff your buyers would follow if you brought them along! Go ahead and still list primarily at ebay if that's your main source of income or even if you just want to (I still do) but isn't it time we ALL work on creating a little healthy competition here??
I would think that sellers who depend on ebay for their income would have the MOST at stake in making sure they cover their A$$ES just in case! What would be the alternative if something did happen and you couldn't sell on ebay but wanted to continue with an online auction venue? Praying that others have built a site up enough that it's viable for 'YOU' to use too?
Please take this as a 'what if' question .. I'm interested in seeing what people would do IF this happened to them!
posted on May 30, 2001 01:09:37 AM
I'd pull out the suits, heels, the thing that turns this hippie hair into a french twist and go back to being an employee while I regrouped. I'd probably try yahoo, epier, and my own website, based on the posts here. And Amazon for my books.
I don't hate working as an employee, but they don't like me showing up in jammies and slippers!
posted on May 30, 2001 03:35:22 AM
tuition44years: Good Question and some good points too, I think! (you HAVE registered over at www.sellyouritem.com haven't you?)
sadie: *too funny* - I know what ya mean! But I think what tuition44years is sayin' is that we all have the chance right now to keep ourselves from being in the position of having to get dressed and go to a "real job" while we regroup.
There ARE other venues to try out... and if Sellers & Buyers begin to DIVERSIFY, in time, we wouldn't be depending on the decisions at the whims of ONE VENUE.
There is a brand new Auction site at www.sellyouritem.com that has really attracted some attention practically over night. I can say from personal experience that I've already been having some success there.
Although I don't currently have anything on auction at eBay, I have EVERY INTENTION of continueing to list on eBay IN ADDITION to other venues. (things were just so hectic over the holiday weekend, and eBays listing process is so involved that it was much easier to get a bunch of items listed at SYI.com)
Anyway... to answer tuition44years question: I'm diversifying and my next favorite site (second only to www.ebay.com) is www.sellyouritem.com
I'm not waiting for the "what ifs"... I'm planning ahead NOW. *smile*
posted on May 30, 2001 03:56:34 AM
Dottie - thanks for the info on SellYourItem. Nice site...
However, my problem with most other auction sites is that they mimic eBay. From the get-go that says they're looking for easy street.
#2 - for a site to compete with eBay, they must promote heavily - in other words 'spend money' - all the listings in the world without bids is worthless.
Now, what to do... I suggest patience. eBay will remain a reasonably safe place for the small seller for the next 12-15 months. I think so because the larger retailers haven't really put their toe in the water yet.
Once they do, they'll go through the period of trial, test, audit, crunch #s. In that time frame, eBay will be severly tested. Meanwhile, people like us on these boards will really remain the bread and butter.
I've mentioned earlier another site. Let's say, AOL-Time Warner put together all their resources, undercut eBay on fees, aligned with a major bank (Citicorp), and pushed all their media resources and user databases to open a site.
eBay would be hurt. eBay knows this. That's why they're scrambling. If you or I managed eBay, we'd do the same. That's why we're talking about alternatives now.
posted on May 30, 2001 05:35:05 AM
I now sell much more of my inventory on Amazon Marketplace, and I consign a lot of stuff to live auctions. I'm trying to keep eBay to no more than 20% of my income, and so far, it's working.
posted on May 30, 2001 05:45:42 AM
HI Tuition
I have been listing on ebay just over 2 years now. I also list on half.com. I am taking a wait and see with what happens to ebay in the very near future. I will try to maintain some listings there as long as I can feel comfortable with the new changes.
I am seriously working on a website/domain I just registered recently.
I am listing auctions on http://www.sellyouritem.com and see that site as a great alternative choice. Eggs in more than one basker suit me fine
Toy
and NOT toyhunter on ebay
posted on May 30, 2001 06:11:51 AM
We saw the writing on the wall a couple of years ago and started diversifying then. In fact were totally off eBay for a good while till Yahoo made such major & devastating changes.
We are now doing limited posting again on Yahoo, dropping our rate of posts on eBay, and are also posting on; sellyouritem.com; auctionaddict.com; ePier.com; Bidville.com; and a few others.
As tuition44years said, it doesn't take a lot of effort to post on other sites and just let the item ride till it sells.
thepriest:
You may be right, and the major problems with eBay "may" be a number of months off, but I don't think waiting for problems any more major than eBay is creating now, is the correct approach. When eBay finally stabs themselves in the heart, I want to be totally established elsewhere, and not have to go through "auction tribulation" with eBay.
posted on May 30, 2001 07:12:22 AM
On the other venues...It sure would have been great if the Golds Auction site had been successful...it was the closest chance we had to ebay competition.....Several of us tried but the buyers just never showed up. I hate the thought of "dusting" off the heels and suits (Good One Sadie... ) and have been hoping that this whole thing works out but I honestly believe Ebay used us to get where they are now and they don't give a @#$%$#@ about us period anymore. So I have been worrying about where or what to do next...sigh
posted on May 30, 2001 07:37:39 AM
I want to register at the new site.......they are running a promotion.....and if someone refers me.......they get a credit and so do I......so would one of you please email me your email address with these people?
posted on May 30, 2001 08:02:11 AM
THANK YOU DOTTIE!!!!!!!!!!!! I just went and checked out the "Sell Your ITem" Auction site ...and signed up......it looks great!! I am wondering if its the old Golds group that I liked so much?? It seems to be. Anyway, it looks promising. Now, if we can ALL promote it, spread the word and get the buyers there it has a chance. That was the problem at Golds.....I hope they advertise it well. It could be the venue we are looking for. YAY
posted on May 30, 2001 08:37:26 AM
minx: It IS the old gold's pages and loyal user base from before but MORE!!!
It's different people running it. TBay Auctions out of Seminole Florida (I did some checking around yesterday)... and I also have reason to believe that they can AFFORD to do the things necessary to grow the site in a way the BENEFITS the MOM & POPS. (but it will be a slow and steady process, from what I understand).
The fact that this site came up on the 17th, was apparently "dumb luck" in the way of TIMING... but thanks to the old Gold's Crowd that spent some valuable time and effort BEFORE when that was up and running, THIS site ( www.sellyouritem.com ) is ready to step up to the plate as a viable alternative to eBay.
Like I've said before, I do NOT intend to "boycott" eBay or stop listing there... but I have every intention of continueing to DIVERSIFY. After digging around for information on some of these smaller auction alternatives, I really DO have a great deal of confidence in SellYourItem. AND... my own personal experience with that site just since I registered on or about the 20th has been VERY ENCOURAGING!
Folks ought to check it out! (and when ya register, be sure to tell'em that DOTTIE sent ya) *smile*
- oh and MINX - THANKS for the referral mention! (I think it was you.. right?) I received $5.00 credit and I guess you would have received the $10.00 credit in your account for naming a member as your referring party. It's a WIN - WIN situation!
posted on May 30, 2001 08:47:05 AM
Selling is a hobby for me--sort of the icing on the cake around here. The profits help to pay for things like remodeling, camping trips and the like--things we can't otherwise afford.
I've been trying to diversify for months (currently listing on ePier and BidVille) and haven't been listing much at all on eBay. I sort of like to be places where I at least feel I'm appreciated. I don't get that feeling at all from eBay anymore and haven't for some time.
I know that I do need to get some auctions listed at eBay because we're currently in the middle of building bedrooms for our kids and the tax return isn't going to last long enough to get them finished, but I keep putting it off. It's so hard to do something when your heart just isn't into it anymore.
posted on May 30, 2001 08:54:12 AM
Hi Dottie.......you should get another credit from me......I signed up as [email protected]. Thanks for the info ~ I can't wait to try listing on this site!
posted on May 30, 2001 08:55:53 AM
Hello. We have been seeing a change about two and a holf months ago. We are using Yahoo more now and we are making better profit off Yahoo. Still list on Ebay, but cut it down a lot. Also been listing on Bidville and we will try the other sites. But not a lot of traffic on the other free sites for what we sell. Mainly sports collectibles. We see ads, but hardly any bidders. Plus we are going to use our own storefront to hopefully push more sales. We too dont want to go back to work. Had a store for 12 years and closed it last month due to majority of our customers online. Plus the two of us were laid off on week before Christmas. So we are really trying hard to keep our internet sales rolling.
posted on May 30, 2001 08:57:46 AM
just checked out the sellyouritem site. VERY disappointed to see that they only allow searching of Closed Auctions through Search/keyword NOT through categories. I personally find this a total headache to deal with. I need to be able to scan whole categories to see what the bidding/sales action really amounts to.
posted on May 30, 2001 09:06:39 AM
katzname: Oh my Gosh!!! THANKS!!! *big huge smile*
kesiak: Hmmm... I wonder why they don't have that? Maybe you should go over there and post a question on their LIVE support board about that... if it's something you might have overlooked OR if it's something they can technically provide in the (near?) future.
I can understand your dismay at not being able to search completed auctions by category.
May I suggest a workaround? Look at the categories of interest to you and note the auction numbers of the auctions of particular interest for later reference.
I do this with eBay auctions for various items that I track as a collector.
Of course, this will not be very effective as a research tool when you are trying to determine the value of an item that falls into a category you do not normally monitor.
For that reason, I suggest that you post your concern on the sellyouritem Support Q&A board. The staff should be happy to pass along your concerns to development or to give you the email address to email directly to.
posted on May 30, 2001 09:34:18 AM
Thanks everyone for the interesting responses!
Dottie ... Yup! I am morningglorys on SellYourItem!
Sadie ... Got an extra 'thing' that turns hippie hair into a nice french twist? Not that I'm going to put on heels and hit the pavement but it would be nice to put my hair up!
This particular question has been in the back of my mind for a year or more. It's come to the forefront again for me because what I am currently selling on ebay is somewhat seasonal .. nearing the end of this years 'season.'
So ... I keep thinking, do I dare hold on to the rest to list next spring? Doesn't 'feel' like a good idea to me. I am fortunate to have a solid customer base for these items and am also the only one on ebay who has more than one or two of them (right now anyway). So .. I think I will put them on SYI (www.sellyouritem.com) and email everyone on my mailing list.
I find it encouraging that a majority of posters to this thread are thinking ahead and diversifying. Of course, it may just be that those who aren't have chosen not to post! Who knows!
posted on May 30, 2001 09:46:46 AM
I quit my A/C and Heating business to sell full time on ebay, today I have two job interviews. My A/C business took me 8 years to build up, the net business took one year and when I did the math I was making about the same on the net with less headaches AKA-employees. not that dollar for dollar I was making the same just that I didn't have the overhead of workers comp, edd, people sleeping on the job, guys cheating on their wives when they were on the clock, etc..
So here I am a year later no A/C business and I have a job interview at 11:00, and another tomorrow at 10:00. fulltime for someone else now, sell the rest of the stock, and quit the net, with the hours I've spent doing the net I really think it will be more of a vacation.............
posted on May 30, 2001 10:04:33 AM
Hello everyone. I'm copying a partial post I made in another thread because I think it's relevant to this topic. IMO, the BIG BOYS are going to be coming real soon but not in the way we visualize. The storefronts will most likely cater to the average volume seller who isn't big enough to have his own website but wants the exposure of items listed on his home page. I doubt that the storefront platform will have a huge effect on the Mom & Pop sellers as long as the items listed in the storefronts aren't going to be included in eBay's search engine. If they were included in the search engine, I think the effect on the small seller would be considerable.
I believe the BIG BOYS are going to be coming in the next phase and that's where eBay's alliance with Microsoft comes into play. It's called a Web Services Portal and really shows the direction eBay is headed, which is the Business to Business platform.
EBay's site will adopt some of Microsoft's software and Microsoft will make eBay's auction listings available on some of Microsoft's sites, like MSN, using eBay's API (Application Program Interface). EBay is facing a slowdown in the auction market and Microsoft needs support for it's dotnet technologies which will offer services and software over the net for a fee or subscription. This alliance will also allow both companies to enter into the corporate auction business, where companies sell off large amounts of inventory. EBay's API allows vendors to basically rent their software and technology instead of buying their own software and having to constantly update it every time eBay makes changes. They'll be able to hook right into eBay's infrastructure from their own site via their web browser.
Here is an excerpt I copied from one of the news articles:
QUOTE
"Microsoft will use eBay's programmable XML-based Web service to integrate the trading services of eBay's online marketplace into a number of its own Internet properties including the MSN network of Internet services, the Carpoint online automotive service and WebTV service. The integration of the services is currently planned to debut later this year and will be available in a number of the 33 international markets in which MSN currently has a presence. These services will allow consumers easy access to the global eBay trading community within localized MSN environments. For example, Carpoint will integrate eBay Motors as its used car listings and transaction engine, making it easier for Carpoint users to buy and sell used cars, motorcycles and car parts online.
eBay's trading services will also be integrated into Microsoft bCentral small-business service. Through Microsoft bCentral, small-business merchants will be able to extend their e-commerce capabilities by directly posting items for sale on eBay's marketplace from within the Microsoft bCentral hosted Commerce Manager service. In addition, bCentral and eBay will provide for full transactional integration between bCentral customer commerce Web sites and eBay, including the ability to determine status of listings on eBay and view transaction history directly from bCentral. Renting applications on a subscription basis."
END QUOTE
This means that both eBay and Microsoft will be charging a "toll" or subscription fee to use their web services and software. The problem that I see is the exclusive nature of this web portal because only the companies that eBay chooses to have access to their API and that can also afford it will be able to participate. Some of the small auction tool companies will be excluded and that will force us to use only the ones eBay accepts. Here's a quote from an analyst that supports this view:
QUOTE
Blank also noted that the relationship between eBay and Microsoft may be bad news for auction management technology providers, such as Auction Watch and Andale. "Those products are products for smaller companies to post items and handle inventory management," he said. "The integration of API could end up posing problems for them in the future."
END QUOTE
http://seattle.internet.com/news/article/0,2243,3851_710551,00.html
BTW, I did read that Andale will be purchasing the API but Bidder's Edge was not offered the opportunity to do so.
The following are a few quotes by Meg Whitman from various articles which reinforce my belief that eBay is concentrating their future efforts on the Business to Business platform:
A Quote from Whitman about the shift to the Business to Business platform:
QUOTE
"Rising sales of fixed-price products on eBay raise the possibility of the company becoming less focused on its virtual garage sale image and more on business-to-business sales. Whitman said the company is hearing from a lot of companies that manage excess inventory and overstock and expects that any partnering announcements in the next nine months will likely be in that arena."
END QUOTE
http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2696803,00.html
A quote from Meg Whitman in an interview:
QUOTE
So, why make an aggressive, long-term projection at all? eBay's CEO, Meg Whitman, said that the company wanted to get the word out that they are not just about collectibles anymore; eBay has great opportunities ahead; eBay is going to grow very large in the next five years due to increasing sales of larger goods.
END QUOTE
http://www.fool.com/portfolios/rulebreaker/2001/rulebreaker010516.htm
Another quote by Whitman but I don't remember the URL
QUOTE
Meg Whitman, eBay's president and CEO, says opening the site to outside developers is crucial. "When a big company comes to eBay and wants to sell lots and lots of items on the site, we have difficulty providing all the tools that they need," she says. "We're turbocharging our API.:
END QUOTE
One more:
QUOTE
Whitman did acknowledge that eBay has evolved from a site for trading collectibles to what she claims is the most "liquid" marketplace on the Net. She'll get no argument from me there. She also hinted that companies handling product overstocks and liquidations have contacted eBay, and that partnerships with those types of companies were likely within the next nine months. Excess inventory was one of the main mantras of the B2B e-marketplace boosters a year ago, and it could be the next step in eBay's conquest of the B2B world.
END QUOTE
http://icq.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2701506,00.html
All in all, I think this next phase is going to cause the small Mom & Pop sellers some major problems. I believe we'll be forced to list only using the tools eBay provides which will take away some of the control we have over our business and will eliminate our ability to use the most economical methods. For instance, I host my own pictures on my web space which is included in the fee I pay my ISP and I make my own auction templates. I don't use the services of any third parties so I don't pay any extra fees when I list auctions. However, I doubt that I'll be able to continue listing in this way since I won't be in a position to "rent" eBay's API and my method of listing may no longer work on their site. The end result is my costs will increase.
I'm not sure anyone will be able to find our listings due to the deluge of the HUGE amounts of inventory being listed by the BIG BOYS who will be renting eBay's API and listing their items directly from their own websites via their own browsers using Microsoft and eBay's Web Services Portal.
And lastly, Microsoft has the much earned reputation of being a bully and the slogan "My way or the highway" is very fitting. My distrust of Microsoft plus the observation that both eBay and Microsoft have the "Big Brother" mentality doesn't give me much faith in my having a place or even wanting one in eBay's future. I hope I'm wrong but eBay's direction is clear to me and I don't see how it's going to benefit the Mom & Pop seller. I guess we'll all just have to wait and see but this alliance is a HUGE commitment by eBay toward an entirely new way of doing business on the internet. I think it's very wise for the smaller sellers to start diversifying NOW.
I'm sorry for all of the links but I don't like to use quotes without showing the URL that contains the quote. You can learn quite a bit just by following Meg's quotes around.
posted on May 30, 2001 10:19:05 AM
Thank you, Blanche! That pretty concretely validates my 'gut' feeling!
I truly hope that people will take this seriously and take action NOW to build the site of their choice. I have chosen SYI because I never did find anywhere else I liked once Gold's was gone. I'm soooo glad to have that software available again!
I do not depend on my auction income to live. To rewire my house? Yes! To pay tuition for my son? Yes! To eat? NO! However, I would truly miss being able to participate in the online auction 'business' so I hope that SYI (and others) meet with success!
Would love to hear from the 'flip side' .. those who aren't going anywhere. Those who feel ebay WILL be there for them. I didn't start this thread to debate or try to sway anyone ... it's about personal perspectives and viewpoints! Thanks to everyone for keeping it that way!
I hope to keep this going as a 'think tank' thread!
posted on May 30, 2001 10:44:02 AMDottie...wish I could take credit for that but it was not me...and ONLY because I did not see the referral or have any email addys at the time I signed up....If I can go back and rectify that I certainly will...I will email customer support and see cause you certainly deserve it. I AM THRILLED to see that its the Gold gang at it again with some changes. I sure liked that site but it just never got the buyers.....I intend to plug them on my webpage and tell everyone that I can about it...If the buyers go there, the sellers will stay. I , also, do not intend to boycott ebay....I am just not that radical ..and I firmly believe that cutting your nose off to spite ones face is rather stupid..... but I have tried to diversify for several years but nothing seemed lucrative....I intend to give the SYI site all I have got to help promote it.
posted on May 30, 2001 12:16:09 PM
Ebay is a huge selling portal now.
I know that when I look at all the places you folks have mentioned: ePier.com, biddville, and sellyouritem.com I see NOTHING or VERY LITTLE under the item I sell. Worse under a couple of catagories I buy in the prices are fixed at pretty top end retail with zero bidders.
So the thing I know, at ebay I can be guaranteed traffic. In the newsgroups and the email lists, it's the place to get what I sell, next to private sales or online camera shops. I say next to, but to be honest I am always seeing someone pop onto the list with a "I just got XXXXXXX on ebay." It's a great way to sell to new aficionados. And it's a great way to meet other fans of the item.
So what to do. I guess since I buy and sell what I love, versus what I have to I am still able to be flexible. I may just take it all private. I am working on a mini-doc with a client and the ebay income allows me to take less per hour and do more that I love.
I am going to reg at these other sites, because I know down the pike my fvf's will get bigger. I know that the folks that have the big accounts will get better deals and the little dude will be paying "retail" for the same "access" to the "portal."
I haven't been to a garage sale in ages, but I sniff at the heels of some estate sales,only to find the brokers have cleaned out anything that I may want! Local auctions are interesting at times...but am I going crazy or is everyone selling on ebay???
My contacts are still good, though when these guys croak or they sell out and retire, the gravy train will have pulled out of the station!
I still like my niche, and I am hopeful that my niche will be small enough to stay under the wire.
I guess ebay wants to cash in on the cache of their name.
Can you blame them?
Robber barons didn't give a damn about the little guy, who can expect it from ebay!
posted on May 30, 2001 03:50:17 PM
Capriole: "I know that when I look at all the places you folks have mentioned: ePier.com, biddville, and sellyouritem.com I see NOTHING or VERY LITTLE under the item I sell."
Now, I would see this as an opportunity! No competition .. yet! Am I the only one who thinks that way?
posted on May 30, 2001 04:12:06 PM
Lynne, you've got a good perspective and a great attitude. eBay has been good to me. My first sale was a $30 piece of software that I sold for $450. Not a bad profit for 15 minutes of work. My sales have been generally good, along with the occasional "miracle" flea market find. I've also seen the other side of the coin, like when eBay "temporarily" shut down their live customer support, during the "it's only a dollar" uproar. eBay doesn't owe us anything, at least not by American business standards. "Loyalty" isn't in their vocabulary, except as a marketing tool.
There is much to praise eBay for. However, I am looking at the long run, five or so years down the road. And my feeling is that eBay itself is trying to get away from auction sales and into B2B marketing. Take a look at TradeOut.com, another eBay venture, to see what I mean. It may be that eBay has reached critical mass, enough to completely redo itself and still remain successful. But I'm wondering what happened to the fun, to the community, to the "virtual flea market." For me, that was the best part of eBay and I just don't see it coming back.
If sellers want to stay with eBay, they should realize that these changes will and are happening. The attitude of "I'll stick with eBay because that's where the buyers are" will only work in the short term. We need to start planning what we'll do in two or three years. Some day in the not-too distant future, eBay auctions will jump from $.30 to $.50 or more, and millions of sellers will suddenly be out on their duffs.
posted on May 30, 2001 04:46:33 PM
eBay will never stop raising fees! They'll have higher and higher revenue and earning targets to meet year after year. Sellers will continue to be squeezed unless we find other venues to sell our wares.
eBay claims they made the no-link move to curtail sales that their sellers were making off-site. Their heavy-handed ways will likely exacerbate the problem to their dismay as formerly loyal sellers actively search for alternative, seller-friendly venues.
posted on May 30, 2001 10:36:54 PM
I keep reading how sellyouritem is similar to Ebay...Doesn't look like it a bit to me. I can't see it as getting off the ground. The colors are so bright they hurt my eyes and are downright gaudy. It isn't my screen, just that site.
(Visited Popula lately?)
posted on May 31, 2001 11:30:25 AM
Escandyo ... Medium blue on a white background?? Huh? Maybe you're referring to some of the seller's ads on the right? I don't see anything gaudy.
Most of the small sites remind me of ebay in some way .. they all pretty much have the same info on the home page .. which makes sense.
Just wait for ebay's new home page .. now THAT is bad!
