SKasselEA
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posted on June 16, 2001 03:43:45 PM
I believe it does, but since many of you have far more eBay experience than I, perhaps you can add your comments.
Several weeks ago, a seller advertised an NCAA college basketball tournament program that was signed by a team that went onto the Final Four.
The auction began at:
Apr-30-01 19:22:27 PDT and was to end May-07-01 18:05:13 PDT.
With about an hour to go in the auction, the top bid was $26. There was NO reserve set. I was getting ready to put in another bid when I received an e-mail that my bid was cancelled and that the auction was cancelled. I immediately e-mailed the seller.
The seller e-mailed me the following:
-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxx[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 6:13 PM
To: xxx
Subject: Re: What the heck is going on?
Because I am not going to sell it for anywhere near $26.
From a bit of investigation, it appears that the seller does this whenever he doesn't like the price near the end of the auction.
He then removes the notification that this auction has been ended early by switching it to:
This auction has ended but the item has been relisted. Go to item now.
When you go to the item, he has replaced it with an entirely different item altogether.
Thoughts, please?
[ edited by SKasselEA on Jun 16, 2001 04:36 PM ]
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thedewey
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posted on June 16, 2001 04:12:08 PM
Hi,
Sorry, but IMO, it isn't fraud.
First, you're not out any money. Nothing was lost except perhaps a little bit of time.
Second, sellers are allowed to end their auctions at any time. eBay's rules. Yep, it was kinda crappy for the seller to do this -- he should have set a reserve or a higher starting bid if price was a critical factor -- but technically, he did have the right to end the auction.
I'm sure it was very frustrating for you, but I don't think it qualifies as "fraud". 
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tomwiii
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posted on June 16, 2001 04:15:16 PM
sellers are allowed to cancel bids and auctions for ANY and/or NO reason at ANYTIME! -- before the auction ends!
If ya didn't win the auction...then YA DIDN'T WIN THE AUCTION!
FRAUD? GMAB!
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mrspock
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posted on June 16, 2001 04:15:56 PM
I don't think it's fraud either
the seller may be hurting himself by ending early though lots of times last minute or two and bid amounts can double...seems to happen to me..only on items im bidding on...my sale items seem to close at their dismall early bids 
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SKasselEA
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posted on June 16, 2001 04:22:48 PM
Thanks for your input. BTW, I should have paid attention to the seller's 32 negative and 27 neutral ratings.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on June 16, 2001 04:27:54 PM
According to eBay, the seller may cancel all bids and end the auction if he decides not to sell. No fraud there.
Canceling Bids
You can cancel bids in an auction if one or more of the following circumstances apply:
-You have decided to end the auction early.
-A bidder contacts you to back out of a bid.
-You cannot verify the identity of a bidder after trying all reasonable means of contact.
You may end your auction if you decide not to sell the item. To do this, you must choose the option to cancel all bids on your auction.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sellerguide/selling-bids.html
However... relisting the item, but substituting a different item in its place is probably not acceptable- eBay would likely consider it fee avoidance.
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uaru
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posted on June 16, 2001 04:31:40 PM
No it isn't fraud, but it isn't sound business either.
A buyer can cancel their bid and a seller can cancel their auction. The only difference is the buyer gets a mark against him, where a seller doesn't. Don't ask me to justify the difference, I can't.
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SKasselEA
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posted on June 16, 2001 04:33:42 PM
We all know how and why eBay does that. The sellers pay the fees, not the buyers. Therefore, don't knock down the guys that pay the bills.
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outoftheblue
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posted on June 16, 2001 04:37:56 PM
mrpotatoheadd
>>relisting the item, but substituting a different item in its place is probably not acceptable- eBay would likely consider it fee avoidance.<<
You are right. There was an AW member who was suspended for that very thing. He was dumb enough to brag about doing it on AW using his ebay id. He was suspended shortly after posting the thread.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Jun 16, 2001 04:40 PM ]
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on June 16, 2001 04:40:37 PM
...but it isn't sound business either.
uaru is right. What will eventually happen to any seller who does this on a regular basis is that once bidders recognize the seller, they will back out of his auctions without bidding.
edited to add...
outoftheblue-
I thought I remembered that, but I wasn't sure if it was here or somewhere else.
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Jun 16, 2001 04:41 PM ]
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SKasselEA
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posted on June 16, 2001 04:41:52 PM
I've also found other things the seller has done such as filing false FVF's with eBay even after the item was paid for. Does it in retaliation for negative ratings being posted.
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outoftheblue
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posted on June 16, 2001 04:53:21 PM
>>>I've also found other things the seller has done such as filing false FVF's with eBay even after the item was paid for.<<<
How did you come up with this information?
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SKasselEA
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posted on June 16, 2001 04:55:16 PM
Because he was stupid enough to tell my attorney he was going to do it to me! He did. I provided eBay with details and eBay removed the warning. Truly unbelievable. And, he has a retail store in California. Very, very foolish businessman.
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outoftheblue
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posted on June 16, 2001 05:19:12 PM
hmmm, that explains it.
From your first two posts, it didn't sound like you have had any dealings with the person except for the auction you mentioned.
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SKasselEA
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posted on June 16, 2001 05:21:05 PM
I realize that. Rather than talk about the problems with the seller, I just wanted to know if his initial conduct violated eBay rules. I thought that would be best achieved by leaving out the other stuff.
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mrspock
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posted on June 16, 2001 05:22:58 PM
Because he was stupid enough to tell my attorney he was going to do it to me!
If you already have legal advice what is the point of posting here ?
did your attorney feel you have a case for fraud ?
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SKasselEA
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posted on June 16, 2001 05:26:38 PM
To explain fully, I cc'd it to one of my employees who is an attorney. He does not handle these types of issues at all. The seller assumed that the attorney was "my" attorney, which he is, but he was not representing me in this matter nor did I intend for him to do so. I understand that sounds very convoluted (sp?), but the point was to get the seller to believe I had an attorney looking at it. What was unreal is that he told the attorney that he was going to file a false complaint. How dumb do you have to be to not only do that, but to then put it in writing?
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figmente
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posted on June 16, 2001 05:32:44 PM
I've noticed several sellers using this "virtual reserve" practice. ebaY accepts it, and it does not seem to rise to legally actionable fraud, however especially when combined with prominent declarations of "NO RESERVE" it sure feels fraudulent. I wish ebaY would add features to discourage it, perhaps their ever escalating campaigns against fee avoidance will get around to it.
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tomwiii
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posted on June 16, 2001 07:44:58 PM
Ya consulted a shark over a $26 eBay bid?
"Bless us & save us said Mrs O'Davis!"
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SKasselEA
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posted on June 16, 2001 08:21:45 PM
message deleted
[ edited by SKasselEA on Jun 19, 2001 02:51 PM ]
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SKasselEA
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posted on June 19, 2001 02:51:27 PM
Thank you for bringing the relisting issue to my attention. I have found numerous instances of fraudulently relisting items with other items.
He does this very, very frequently. I've found at least 15 cases in the past month. I am certain it is not done only when there have been non-paying bidders as I have found positive feedback on some of the auctions he has relisted.
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kidsfeet
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posted on June 19, 2001 03:24:24 PM
I will add that if he uses the relist button on an item that has SOLD, then he is doing nothing wrong. It is faster that way, since you don't have to fill in all the fields.
A re-list on a sold item does not qualify as refundable, so it is paid for. Nothing wrong there.
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SKasselEA
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posted on June 19, 2001 03:58:39 PM
Some sold and some did not.
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