posted on July 3, 2001 08:50:11 AM
I found a great way to sell on Ebay without the fees!
This is what you do.
Look for an Item like the one you have to sell in the closed items...then email all the bidders and ask them for advice on what they think would be the best way to sell your item on ebay...like reserve, category, ending time..etc.
Just say since I saw you had bid on one I figured you must know something about this item.
99% of the time one of those bidders will offer to buy it outright from you...
posted on July 3, 2001 08:54:17 AM
That's a wonderful way for you to be gone from ebay in the click of a button. That's grossly against ebay's user agreement and rules and regulations.
There are several names for what you're doing and when ebay finds out, you'll be gone.
This is not really good advice for others.
edited to say, oooooooh - if you're lowprofile on ebay, you're already NARU! LOL!
[ edited by mtnmama on Jul 3, 2001 08:56 AM ]
posted on July 3, 2001 12:24:25 PM
You sure don't live up to your name do you???
Since all email goes through the eBay system now, your sure drawing a lot of attention to yourself.....will you be changing your ID to "highlyvisible"?????
posted on July 3, 2001 02:46:37 PM
While this is certainly a form of "fee avoidance," it doens't seem to directly violate ebay rules. He is not blatantly offerering to sell them the item. The offer to buy is coming from the people he contacts. While it is violates the IDEA of fee avoidance, it doesn't seem to violate the LETTER.
posted on July 3, 2001 03:08:29 PM
Its not SPAM at all.
Definition of Spam
A "spam" e-mail is generally defined as an unsolicited mailing, usually to many people. A message written for, and mailed to, one individual that is known to the sender is not spam, and a reply to an e-mail is not spam, unless the "reply" repeats endlessly.
Spam e-mailers have become a separate part of the Internet, with their own host computers, methods, and politics. Many Internet sites have begun to forbid spamming, for several reasons – one is a sense that it is unethical, another is that, over time, other Internet sites will stop all e-mail from that site and thus prevent legitimate e-mail from getting through. As a result, spammers have begun to set up their own Internet sites -- sites that cater to, or encourage, spamming
posted on July 3, 2001 03:10:50 PM
Sending spam - Sending unsolicited (without prior permission), commercial email. Examples:
Sending unsolicited offers to bidders for the same or similar products that they have bid on in the past
Soliciting a seller to sell a listed item outside of eBay.
posted on July 3, 2001 06:07:26 PM
Lowprofile wrote:I dont think this violates ebays policies on Fee Avoidence. Did you read your title: Sell on Ebay without the Fees!
posted on July 3, 2001 06:54:50 PM
Lowprofile
There are two very distinct and different definitions of spam, Yours and Pierre"s. Guess which one Ebay uses.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on July 3, 2001 07:27:32 PM
Thank you for the best laugh I have had all day. As soon as I read this post I knew it would get everyone fired up. I was laughing by arse off!!!
Yes, it is spam. No matter how Clinton defined 'Sex' it was sex! But the funny thing is.... my percentage of ebay fees is approx 7% and I just don't have the time nor the patience to try and save a nickel here and there. I would much rather list an extra 100 auctions next week and save myself the hassle of pretending to solicit advice on how to list something.
Goodness, I always know that coming here is a great way to end a poopy day. Kinda like reading the opinion section in the daily news... heck, it's better than the comics
Enjoy!
posted on July 3, 2001 07:47:36 PM
People like you are why people like me run "private" auctions only....to protect my bidders and myself from bottom feeders.
posted on July 4, 2001 04:07:43 AM
From eBay's SPAM policy:
***********
Examples of what is allowed:
Sending a message to someone asking if he/she is interested in a particular category without indicating that you sell the collectible. Also, this type of email must only be sent to users you've dealt with before or to users you reasonably believe would want to receive such information.
************
As trollish as the initial post sounds, I think it would be a "legal" way to approach underbidders if worded a bit differently.
Ask if they're INTERESTED in that collectible/area in the initial e-mail (remove the reference asking advice about how to "sell" your item). If they respond favorably, start a dialogue... if it ends up in an eventual sale, you didn't violate any eBay rules.
posted on July 4, 2001 07:17:50 PM
LowLife's ruse violates eBay's rules prohibiting spam, fee avoidence, and offsite sales. EBay states:
"We would discourage you from participating in any transactions outside of eBay's listing format. This is a violation of our policy prohibiting direct sales."
Rule breakers like LowLife cause honest sellers to suffer by causing higher fees, tighter restrictions, and the loss of potential bidders. People like that should be NARU'd.
I think if you sent a message like that to one person, it probably wouldn't be considered spam, as it would seem innocent enough. However, if eBay were aware that you'd sent such a message to a lot of people, they'd probably find a way to construe it as spam, which, if you're honest with yourself, you'd admit it is.
Strangely, I am aware of some software that could make your deed pretty easy. It wasn't designed as a spammer's tool, it was made to collect data on buyer behavior, and keep track of things such as how many times bidders will try to get an item before bidding or giving up, how often snipers snipe, what the average price of an item is as expressed as a percentage of a final price at various points in an average auction, etc.
Anyway, one of the things it can do is get a list of everyone who has placed a bid on any auction that satisfies a certain search term. For instance, if you were looking for people who've bid on a "Sony FD95", you could type in this term and it could give you all the bidders who are currently bidding or have bid on such an item within the last 30 days.
As I said, it's not desgined as a spam tool, and it does lots of other things . . . for instance, it could give you a list of all the SELLERs of a Sony FD95, as well. But it occurred to me that it could be used for your purposes. I could put you in touch with the maker if you want. My email is [email protected]
posted on July 4, 2001 09:05:26 PM
On the other side of the fence, can someone tell me what keeps someone from listing one item the first time, then relisting a different item the second? I know the relist link is now there, something that would have been a monkey wrench in years past.
posted on July 5, 2001 04:52:17 AM
stormsail - what lowest is doing is NOT spam.
what ebay does with anything that is "opt-out" (after you've signed up for ebay) IS spam.
ebay can make up rules about what is / isn't spam ,but it is *not* spam. an analogy i've used is if ebay says "we refuse to allow bicycles on our site" and then define a car as anything with 2 or 4 wheels.
i'm not going to go into the 'is it right' question of it - but it is NOT spam.
posted on July 5, 2001 10:22:51 AM
"ebay can make up rules about what is / isn't spam ,but it is *not* spam"
Yes, that is exactly the point..they can define the term "spam" as they want...and then punish you if you violate their definition.
Whether their definition of "spam" meets yours, or the generally accepted 'net definition is not relevant to this discussion. We're not talking about the proper entry for a new dictionary, we're discussing "right" and "wrong" in ebay behavior, which is solely up to ebay and their definitions and rules.
The question is whether or not lowprofile's email meets, or does not meet, ebay's definition of spam, and thus whether or not they are deserving of scorn in this forum and possible ebay sanction or not.
As with much of ebay's rules and policies, many are broad/vague enough to be applied in different fashions to similar (or identical!) situations. Three different ebay safeharbor folks might "rule" 3 different ways in this case, as we've seen in the past, sad to say.
Personally, I think his pattern of multiple mailing to people with the clear intent to sell *does* meet ebay's definition of spam ("unsolicited commercial email" ), but that's just my opinion.
as with most of these cases, the chance of actually being caught and convicted is relatively small. Whether its worth the time and hassle and risk to save ebay fees is another question, that probably varies by item and category. The higher the value of the item, the more it is worth taking the time to find and email potential customers.
Please refrain from calling people derogatory names. Your reference to lowprofile as "lowlife" is uncalled for. Please see the section of the Community Guidelines as follows:
8.1. Respect the Community. AuctionWatch takes pride in its Community. Please remember that you are expected to treat your fellow Community members and Moderators and staff with respect and consideration.
Do not continue to post in this manner to avoid putting your posting privileges in jeopardy.
posted on July 5, 2001 01:57:39 PM
captkirk - but it's NOT spam. and ebay changing definitions, to suit their own whims (and public relations moves) doesn't MAKE it spam.
as i said, i won't go into the "is it against ebay's policies", or "can ebay make it against their policies".
but when ebay starts claiming something is spam - when it's not - and THEY, IN FACT, SPAM - it irritates me.
posted on July 5, 2001 02:36:56 PM
This is a specious argument.
Unsolicited email, no matter what the marketing tactic employed in the content, is indeed spam.
spam with chips
spam with eggs
No matter how you like it...it's spam.
You, lowprofile, may not be a lowlife. Your idea, however, is right up there with the finest of bottem feeding sellers.
I think ebay should have a better search, a better way to market etc, but this is really poor ethically.
Maybe since, as a seller, I don't have to make a sale to feed myself I don't feel compelled to even think about this as a serious issue.
BUT if I pulled that in the community in which I work as a freelancer (albeit smaller than ebay's community) it wouldn't be long before I would have little respect from my peers.
Peers are a great resource.
It's sad that ebay has turned it into Mcdonalds where all that matters is selling the burger. The the ethics involved in making that sale an option. And all the brainwashed parents thinking they are treating their kids to mcdonalds...yoiks.
