posted on July 3, 2001 01:43:57 PM
OK I know the passing along the PayPal fees threads have been around for ever but this is a new twist.
I haven't read this anywhere yet and I probably would have come up with it sooner but I only started taking PayPal again 2 weeks ago right before they started raising their fees again, and again, and again.... I wouldn't have a problem passing along the PayPal fees and you could even pass along the ebay fee if you wanted, I wouldn't pass along the ebay fees in my case only the PP fees.
I think I'll keep taking PayPal and I will just add that all PayPal transactions will be sent UPS. Why? great tracking, better than USPS and built in 100.00 insurance. Also you can easily add the PP fees to the sale how?
Do to better tracking, insurance and better buyer protection we only ship items paid by PayPal with UPS. If you want to use PayPal send me your address at the end of the auction and I will send you a total with UPS shipping and the email address that we use for PayPal.
At the same time you can easily add PayPal fees to the shipping amount and as long as you don't get greedy and add more than just the PP fees you should never have a complaint. I ship UPS myself so even with passing along the fees I would still be cheaper than someone shipping through a UPS service place without the extra fees added.
posted on July 3, 2001 01:46:55 PM
This would be, however, deceptive, and I would not be thrilled to deal with you when you claim to add shipping and you're really adding shipping and other fees.
Better to be an honest seller and just add those fees or a flat PayPal convenience fee.
posted on July 3, 2001 02:17:52 PMpeiklk
No more deceptive that dealing with PayPal themselves. Also how would you know that I had even added the fees? You would be thrilled with me because my UPS costs less with the fees than people that send UPS from a service counter.
How would you suggest I add the PP convenience fee? It's against the rules to openly show that you are charging a PP convenience fee per ebay
I guess I could drop my UPS account and then still only take PayPal with if it ships UPS so that it would be easier be within PayPals ever changing rules and the stuff would be insured even for those people that don't want to insure their PayPal transactions. It would cost the customer anywhere from 3.00 to 10.00 or more to ship from a shipping counter instead of me shipping UPS myself.
So if I go your route I stand to get thrown off ebay.
I wouldn't be recouping any PP fees.
It would cost my customer more.
It would cost me more
posted on July 3, 2001 02:23:10 PM
I was unaware that the ebay nazis put restrictions on payment arrangements. I would then list is as shipping and handling. You're charging them a bit for your time/trouble and not directly charging them for the PayPal fee. In the end it's a wash, but still more honest than just tacking it on.
I just got burned by Billpoint because of a $200 item, plus $6 shipping. They cut $5.50 out in the Billpoint fee.
They also tack on an ADDITIONAL charge to deposit the money in my bank account, which they do automatically. It's not like PayPal where you can at least keep your money to use to pay for items.
posted on July 3, 2001 02:23:29 PM
You can charge a S/H fee for the Paypal fees and then offer a cash discount of the same amount off of the FINAL BID PRICE to those paying by other methods.
posted on July 3, 2001 02:42:45 PM
I now charge a flat shipping and handling fee, and I think everyone should but that's just me.
Shipping with UPS and adding the fees is truly the only fair way to handle it. If I am comfortable with charging say .25 handling fee to cover the cost tape, pellets, packing supplies, etc. and that is in my shipping and handling. But should I ding every buyer with say another .50 to 1.00 handling fee because I think they might use PayPal? Would you feel better taking advantage of those people that don't pay with PayPal or BillPoint but pay the extra handling fee? or would you keep it at say .50 extra handling and let the people not paying with CC subsidize those that are? The only other way to handle it that I can see is to give a discount if you don't pay with PayPal, then you know you would get the people that would still send payment and take the discount anyway.
Again I really think that this is the fairest way yet to pass along the fees and again it would still be cheaper that UPS-ing it from a customer counter so you would actually be saving them money. Also charging them the exact amount and not a number pulled out of the air in my book is much more fair, even if they don't know you are adding the fees.
posted on July 3, 2001 02:55:48 PM
Or you could use the term FIXED shipping and set a fixed rate for each Type Item you sell.
Some time the fixed price will be more then postage some times it will be just the cost of postage you have a 50-50 chance of recovering outside costs.
for the most part I try to not avoid paying fees for selling I just learned to set my starting bid about a $1.30 more then I use to and keep shipping charges within 5 to 10 cents of actual postages.
buyers dont mind if there package shows up and find you charged maybe .10 or so then you charged for shipping they feel you gave them a fair deal.
Just make sure you state in each listing what fixed shipping price pays for.
Like state fixed shipping will be USPS Parcel post or frist class inside the USA depending on packaged weight and location.
posted on July 3, 2001 03:19:50 PM
I don't see how anyone in their right mind can equate FAIR with a LYING and a HIDDEN FEE. That is not "fair" in any way, shape, or form. What it is, is dishonest. You're telling them shipping was $x.xx, but it really was $y.yy and you added $z.zz to total up to $x.xx.
Find a way to be an honest person. If NO ONE ever finds out, it still doesn't make what you did right. I know that is hard to hear in this day of justification and situational ethics, but it is an absolute that holds true.
Just because you don't use a customer counter to handle your UPSing does not give you the right to add on a hidden fee. It's still lying.
Just call it SHIPPING AND HANDLING and go from there. HANDLING = all your costs involved in getting the package to them and payment processed. For USPS shippers it just makes life easier. If I charge $4 s&h and it comes to $3.50, then I don't have to worry about the extra 50 cents. When you get into people paying exact shipping, you are obligated to quote them the honest shipping figure.
Again, you won't convince me to be dishonest -- and I don't think you're really trying to. But you should consider how you'd want to be treated.
posted on July 3, 2001 07:43:04 PM
The way I was thinking about phrasing it was:
Priority Mail Shipping $4.00. First Class Mail $3.00 (not available if paying with Paypal).
This adds about 50 cents to either postage rate for "handling". Since PP requires DC and you can't do DC with First Class, this seems reasonable (to me at least).
posted on July 3, 2001 08:04:13 PM
"selling I just learned to set my starting bid about a $1.30 more then I use to "
That won't work, because (I think) that no matter where you set your startingprice, within reason, your ENDING price will end up the same, so you haven't changed anything.
The only way to recoup a fee there is to raise your ENDING price. Which of course you can't do (it's up to the bidders). So you'll have to include it in a fixed shipping fee.
I don't use UPS too often since I don't have too many heavy items, but when I do use it I like it because the shipping charge does not appear on the package, so I can charge a buck or two more to cover my packaging, paypal etc and the buyer will not get upset.
posted on July 4, 2001 06:45:21 AM
PASSING ON FEES
I really don’t understand why this is such a big issue. All your mail and on-line companies do it and for that matter so do the brick and mortar stores.
ALL businesses pass on the cost of doing business. PalPal fees are a cost of doing business. In a B&M store they add to the wholesale cost the price of overhead, employee wages , merchant account fees, advertising, accounting, legal fees, lost of property through theft (shop lifting) and every other operational expense they may encounter. It’s done every day.
Mail order and on-line businesses do the same thing. They add to the wholesale cost of the product they are offering. Things like shipping, cost of boxing the goods, boxes, tape, postage, employee wages, merchant account fees, and every other fee that it costs to operate their business. It’s all built into the retail price that you end up paying.
I have never found this to be an issue. I buy wholesale and mark up my merchandise up a certain percentage. This percentage covers the cost of goods. My, time, and all my other operating expenses just like any other company would. This includes listing fees, FVF fees, PayPal, BidPay, BillPoint or any other such fees. That’s the way business is conducted in the "real" world and if you want to stay in business for the long run that is the way you have to conduct yourself. Selling on eBay isn’t a hobby for me, it’s a vocation.
As for shipping handle, I manage that separate from the product. I don’t add shipping into my profit markup formula. I simply state a shipping fee, which is the actual price to ship the product to my customer and a handling fee. The handling fee is minimal and fair but covers such things as shipping supplies. Boxes, tape, packing supplies, labels, etc.
So what’s this big deal regarding passing on fees to the customer. Why make it one. ALL BUSINESSES DO IT! All of them! Otherwise they can not survive. It’s done everyday.
I think the issue is how you go about it on auction site. Think of it this way. What if:
What if: Your local discount-clothing store had a price tag that said for example –
Jacket $24.95
Merchant account fee’s 2.5% $ .63
Rack fee .50
Final sale fee $ 1.27
You would be throwing a fit and asking what the heck is going on. Why do I have to pay these extra fees? Wouldn’t you? That is why the B&M has the price tag at $27.35 and you don’t get an explanation or breakdown of what additional fees are added to their wholesale cost. Mail order comapies do the same thing. Ever see a TV ad for a product? They always say something like Widget $24.95 plus $4.95 Shipping and handling. They all do it.
Crunch your numbers. See what you really need to get out of whatever you’re selling adding in all your expenses including payPal or other such fees and hopefully a little something for you. Then make that your starting bid. Be reasonable with your handling fees and no one will question you.
I have been selling on line since July 1999 and have only had a few people question my Shipping & handling fees. No one has questioned the price I offer my products at which include my markup as explained. They either buy it or move on. Very simple!
posted on July 4, 2001 08:01:13 AM
Some fo these posts are too damn funny. its amazing some can even pull off a successful auction based on the comments here.........let me just say some folks definetly have a firm grasp on the obvious and others on fantasy, funny hting is that they both are equal in the gray matter dept.
posted on July 4, 2001 08:09:03 AM
As a way to track these things for my own knowledge, I record my revenues from auction sales venues in 2 different codes - one for the sales price, and one for the S/H. Just to see, I totalled up my numbers through June.
I've collected a total of $941.28 in S/H fees between my Ebay, Half.com, Yahoo, and direct sales.
These fees cover postage and mailing supplies, which for the year total $887.11. The difference is $54.17. That amount covers the overhead and a bit for my time (obviously not a LOT for my time *smile* I've had hundreds of transactions this year already).
On some transactions I underestimate the S/H fee, especially happens when I sell something that is NOT in my regular inventory of items. On most transactions my S/H fee is within probably 10 cents of the total postage + supplies - I have yet to have a buyer complain about that markup - so I can only assume the consider it reasonable.
posted on July 4, 2001 08:22:49 AM
I use a fixed shipping charge.But I think on alot of items over 3lbs it would pay to check the UPS rate especially if the item is breakable, because they are alot easier to collect off of than the Post Office.I would say alot of buyers are going to purchase more than one item off the same seller to save on shipping cost than they use to.I'm already seeing alot of that on my auctions.They should hit the E-Bay stores heavy at Christmas this year.It they don't it will surprise me.
I've been struggleing with new TOS where paypal is concerned.
I don't advertise it on my auction page anymore. But, I started out in my EOA mentioning that I can take it for an additional $1.00 fee to cover DC and related fees.
Then I changed it again to only offer for items that sold for $25.00+ and $.60 DC fee.
I'm not happy with that either. Its tough to sell an item for $1.00 + $5.50 postage and they want to use PayPal. I end up PAYING to get rid of it.
Now with the new postage increse I'm considering going UPS with most my items as many weigh from 3 to 7 pounds.
Its been my experience that the UPS rate quoted on the web sight ends up being more then what I'm charge.
Like you said they include tracking & insurance so I think adding $.50 for paypal users would be out of line.
Like I said, I like the idea and will be pondering about putting something simular in my tearms.
posted on July 4, 2001 05:09:04 PM
E-Bay frowns on charging an additional percentage for credit card fees and they state that it is illegal to do so. The new Pay Pal increase will hurt for amounts from $100 and over. If I sell an item for $500 why should I pay 2.75% for someone's convenience, or so they can use their credit card? I was thinking of adding a Pay Pal percentage to my auctions, why would that be so wrong?
posted on July 4, 2001 05:36:41 PM
It is not only against eBay TOS to charge additional for Pay Pal (or any credit card users), it is also against Pay Pal TOS. Many states have laws requiring "credit same price as cash" including California where Pay Pal is based.
As was pointed out earlier, credit card processing fees are a cost of doing business. About half my customers use Pay Pal or Billpoint and I love it and gladly pay the fees for the convenience it offers me and the fact that lots of bidders won't even touch auctions without some form of credit card payment option.
posted on July 5, 2001 08:43:40 AM
I like Pay Pal rules of verification. I don't think I would do any kind of credit card payment option without Pay Pal. We have no way of verifing id otherwise. After consulting my bank about it, they stated they do not offer merchant credit options if you are doing business on the internet due to the excessive amount of chargebacks.
I didn't care for the way Pay Pal has been raising their rates lately. To send a letter of "congratulations, you have been chosen to receive our rate increase" is a bit tacky.
posted on July 5, 2001 12:50:32 PM
I recently switched from a business to a personal account for PayPal and simply do not mention them in my auctions. Even if Billpoint costs me more, it costs me less than trying to pass on two rate increases inside of thirty days in my flat shipping fee. People don't like it. If I remember correctly all of PayPal increases were supposed to provide me with benefits, none of which has ever materialized.
posted on July 5, 2001 01:16:34 PM
Um, why dont you just put all fees in the mininmum bid. Lets estimate here...
$6.99 item + payment service fee 1.00 + Insertion fee .30 + FVF .70 = $8.99
Then add S&H...
How does this not make sense?
posted on July 6, 2001 01:01:58 PM
I suppose if you are one of those people where your minimum bid is the same as your BIN, that would make sense. But then, that really isn't an auction, is it? In a real auction, the starting bid doesn't control the ending bid. As an example, starting bid of $6.99 = $30.00 winning bid. Starting bid of 8.99 = $30.00 winning bid. Let's see, $30.00 - $30.00 leaves me how much to cover increased PayPal and AW fees?
