whood
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posted on July 30, 2001 01:34:39 PM
Somebody help!
I received a payback from an international customer at 120 days after the payment.
I sent PayPal an email that I have from the buyer that says they GOT THE PACKAGE.
What the &*(^@#! How can they do that? Am I suppossed to keep the registration paperwork after 90 days? Don't they have to take into account the email that says they received the merchandise!
Of course, the buyer never has even contacted me.
Any suggestions?
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Coonr
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posted on July 30, 2001 01:36:52 PM
Chargebacks can be granted by your customers bank (not PayPal) for any number of reasons, only one of which is non receipt.
What was the reason given for the chargeback?
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dman3
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posted on July 30, 2001 01:45:53 PM
Paypal can't protect sellers from bank charge backs at all.
if the person tried writeing paypal for there money back and you had proof of shipment then they can help even then if paypal tells the buyer you have proof and the buyer still goes to there bank and charges back it unlikely with international they will fight it.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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mballai
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posted on July 30, 2001 02:24:14 PM
"Paypal can't protect sellers from bank charge backs at all."
But they sure can up the rates to say it uses to pay to prevent them.... 
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whood
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posted on July 30, 2001 02:24:43 PM
The chargeback supposedly was for non-receipt of the package (though they obviously did if I have an email thank you from the buyer). So are we just out of luck no matter what when we have international buyers?
thanks!
woody
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whood
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posted on July 30, 2001 02:26:56 PM
How can Paypal collect from me though? They supposedly can't withdraw from my credit card or checking account without authorization. ANd if they do I'll dispute it with my bank. What recourse do they have if I won't pay?
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Microbes
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posted on July 30, 2001 02:31:27 PM
If your paypal account is still active, they could snatch payments as fast as they come in....
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dman3
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posted on July 30, 2001 02:33:11 PM
They thank all the funds sent to your paypal account untill the charge back is paid off usually they do this buy freezeing withdraws till they get the money from your paypal account.
it would be less a hastle for you to add the funds to your paypal account to cover the fall out and avoid problems for you and your buyers.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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whood
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posted on July 30, 2001 02:33:22 PM
I don't have any payments coming in. I'm certainly not using them anymore. And I've removed my checking and credit card from my profile. I can't actually close the account because I "owe" them.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on July 30, 2001 02:36:38 PM
What recourse do they have if I won't pay?
I don't know the answer to this question, but I'd be willing to bet they'll be more aggressive in recovering the money from you to cover their loss than they would be in recovering the money for you to cover your loss.
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dman3
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posted on July 30, 2001 02:40:18 PM
THey have the same recourse as any other business you own money to.
Honestly depends on the amount what lengths they might go too.
Then again I wouldn't go by the balance of your debt to rationalize how far they might go.
I once owed a company $6 balance on a loan by the time they got done adding legal fees collection fees and putting a lean on my home it ended up costing me $1,190 to fix this minor problem the started out as a $6 end balance.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
[ edited by dman3 on Jul 30, 2001 02:45 PM ]
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spittingcamel
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posted on July 30, 2001 02:49:23 PM
have you emailed the bidder, to find out what is going on?
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loggia
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posted on July 30, 2001 03:02:15 PM
What recourse do they have if I won't pay?
When the pressure keeps increasing to make profits for their many investors, PayPal may start crunching through the umpteen negative accounts and sell them to a collection agency...
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whood
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posted on July 30, 2001 03:27:14 PM
Actually it was a CREDIT CARD chargeback and not a BANK chargeback. Does that make a difference?
I geuss I'll have to wait and see about how aggressive they are in collection.
So my only proactive recourse is to fight back in court? Great. That should be fun. Anybody for a class action?
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whood
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posted on July 30, 2001 03:29:03 PM
OH, I haven't emailed the buyer/bidder. I'm not sure what the point is. He already has his money back and the package. And I don't think my email would be very nice...
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gs4
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posted on July 30, 2001 03:59:55 PM
Its not just overseas buyers that can be a problem with chargebacks, it's local buyers also.
That's why I like Bidpay, no chargebacks with them. Postal m. o. work well also.
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Microbes
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posted on July 30, 2001 04:16:03 PM
I can't actually close the account because I "owe" them.
And that means any of your buyers can send payments to that account. (I don't even have a paypal account, never have. People still try to send money to me thru paypal.) Which paypal can keep against a negitive balance if they want.
Not trying to give you a hard time (I feel sorry for anyone who gets an undeserved chargeback), but if one of your buyers paypals a payment, then what?
Unless it's a great deal of money, what dman3 said "it would be less a hastle for you to add the funds to your paypal account to cover the fall out and avoid problems for you and your buyers." might be good advice.
If it's a small amount of money, it's like a bogus parking ticket, it would be easier to just pay it and not have to worry about it.
If it's a lot of money, that's another story...
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bemused
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posted on July 30, 2001 06:16:32 PM
whood
There is no seller protection policy for international sales, and even the domestic one requires some proof other than an email. If you want to be totally protected don't take cards at all. No other entity can absorb all the risk for your business. Many here will suggest that PayPal never takes the hit when a chargeback is granted but the seller is covered by their policy, I tend to doubt that. Unfortunately too many sellers are only playing at being in business, having been nursed on the freebies of the good old days they whine like neglected babies when the teat is taken away and they're forced to grow up. You would encounter the same problem if you had you're own merchant account.
[ edited by bemused on Jul 30, 2001 06:17 PM ]
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sulyn1950
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posted on July 30, 2001 06:22:30 PM
Even if International sales are not "protected" and even though anyone who accepts cards is subject to a chargeback, it seems to me PayPal could at least see that this person does NOT use them to "commit fraud" again! I would keep on PayPal until they assure you this individual no longer is able to use PayPal. Other than that, I really don't think there is anything you can do.
You might want to contact "paypaldamon" and ask for his help in seeing this person stopped!
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pyth00n
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posted on July 30, 2001 07:00:43 PM
Oh boy won't THAT look great in a TOS statement: supersized font: "DO NOT SEND ME MONEY BY PAY PAL. IF YOU DO YOUR MONEY WILL DISAPPEAR AND I WILL NOT SHIP ANYTHING TO YOU! YOU SEE, I GOT ROOKED BY THIS BUYER AFTER 3 MONTHS AND AND AND..." Hmmm
Plan B: Dump Pay Pal right now before it happens to me. Miss a lot of sales and type endless emails to buyers who insist on using it anyway. Hmmm
Plan C: Continue as is right now: Have them mail me checks and keep emptying account at an irritatingly low level, given the checks cost $1.50 now. Don't mention PP in listings for larger values. Hmmm Don't like that much either, but maybe I'll luck out and not sell to any outright crooks, my specialties don't really attract them, fortunately.
Btw, I do have a merchant account and do have occasional chargeback attempts when I do out-of-town event sales. A couple buyers always look at their bills and say, "I've never been in Lizard Lick, NC, HELP I'm being cheated!!" I mail a charge slip copy to the processing center and keep my money. Pay Pal isn't reasonable, isn't FDIC insured, but I'm damned if I see how to protect myself without losing sales. What a racket.
Sort of like playing spin the bottle but you have to kiss a goat when it stops pointing at you.
Edit: typo
[ edited by pyth00n on Jul 30, 2001 07:08 PM ]
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dman3
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posted on July 30, 2001 07:24:24 PM
pyth00n
you been playing spin the bottle and kissing goats again I thought this behavior was all done ????
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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jereth
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posted on July 30, 2001 07:30:20 PM
We are currently wrestling with a PayPal chargeback: auction ends Monday, he pays Monday night via PayPal, Tuesday night he files for a chargeback through PayPal: Reason? He wants to 'make sure' he gets the item.
Brother....
Marie
[email protected]
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vargas
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posted on July 30, 2001 08:15:45 PM
Brother is right, Marie!
I'm afraid all that buyer would get from me is a great big NEG!!!
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kerrigirl
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posted on July 30, 2001 09:11:29 PM
Paypal is the DEVIL!
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wildbillstrading
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posted on July 30, 2001 09:14:40 PM
 PAY PAL RAH RAH
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on July 30, 2001 09:15:04 PM
Paypal is the DEVIL!
I'm not sure they're quite that bad, but I don't think I'd want to lose my wallet in their parking lot. 
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BJGrolle
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posted on July 31, 2001 05:52:42 AM
So yes, as long as your email address with PayPal is identical to your email address with eBay, buyers can send you payment through PayPal and you will still have to ship their merchandise even though technically PayPal applied it against the chargeback balance. After all, it's not the buyer's problem that you have a chargeback.
So the solution to this might be to get another email address and put that on your PayPal account and delete the eBay email address. Since you say you're not allowed to close the account with a negative balance.
http://bjgrolle.freehomepage.com
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Eventer
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posted on July 31, 2001 06:04:32 AM
Paypal is the DEVIL!
And all this time, I thought EBAY was the DEVIL! Now I'm confused!
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on July 31, 2001 07:29:26 AM
I think the confusion lies in the fact that they appear to be using the same customer service department.
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chris97
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posted on July 31, 2001 08:36:38 AM
If you don't want any unauthorized payments into your paypal account then you will have to change your ebay e-mail. That way some buyers won't send money to the frozen account as there is no way of finding out what your old e-mail was.
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